  Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 448 Registered: 10-2006 |
I hope all the real Detroters out there voice their support for their fellow Detroiters by REFUSING to spend a penny on any car produced by a UAW bum. We need to starve these companies until they fire all these idiots, and hire REAL AMERICANS who do not expect a lawyer's salary for a job that an illiterate 16-year-old in Bolivia could probably do better. Starve the UAW criminals. Time to take back Detroit from these swine!! | ||
Carolcb Member Username: Carolcb Post Number: 2297 Registered: 11-2006 |
And, what - may we ask - Do YOU DO for a living? Better yet, what did your father do for a living or your grandfather? Just asking! | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1555 Registered: 11-2005 |
... Seriously? | ||
Paulc Member Username: Paulc Post Number: 139 Registered: 03-2005 |
Wonder if Crawford and Englishskills are closely related?  Trolls of a feather... | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 449 Registered: 10-2006 |
Carol, I am a consultant for Latin American retailers. Sorry, no union for me. I get paid when I make my clients money. My father is a lawyer for a German engineering firm. Sorry, no union for him. He gets paid when GM or Mercedes pays his engineering firm. If GM goes under, my father will lose much of his pay. Why are bums being paid 80K a year (as much or more than the engineers with Masters Degrees at his firm)? Because of the criminals at the UAW. Why should a barely literate idiot make 80K a year to stand on an assembly line? I guarantee you could hire Guatamalans to do the EXACT same work with a few days of training. My grandfather was a pig farmer in Germany. Sorry, no union there. | ||
Lodgedodger Member Username: Lodgedodger Post Number: 1091 Registered: 05-2008 |
Wow, that is wrong on so many levels. I smell a troll. Crawford, your comments are shameful. Get your facts straight before you decide to post this bullshit. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 450 Registered: 10-2006 |
If we can kill the UAW, these companies can start over and hire people who genuinely want to work for their firm. They can still pay good salaries like the German and Japanese companies. There will be tens of thousands of Detroiters who would LOVE to make $20-$25 an hour plus healthcare for a job with basically no educational requirements. The alternative (supporting the dead weight at the UAW) will lead to the demise of Detroit. There is NO WAY that GM can compete when their labor costs are so much higher. | ||
Mountainman Member Username: Mountainman Post Number: 141 Registered: 02-2006 |
Crawford, how many times more do CEOs make than their workers? Without the unions there would be no $20-25 a hour or healthcare. Those benefits exist industry wide because of the work of the UAW. I heard this ignorant steaming load elsewhere. Generally from priviledged/lucky individuals who have no concept of history. | ||
Carolcb Member Username: Carolcb Post Number: 2300 Registered: 11-2006 |
I think Crawford is really Mitt, and let me tell you, George is rolling over in his grave. I will tell you why they are making 80,000....if they are....it is because they are working a 10 or 12 hour 7 days a week. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 2894 Registered: 10-2003 |
T R O L L P O S T | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 878 Registered: 02-2007 |
Consultant for Latin American retailers...lawyer for a German engineering firm...pig farmer in Germany...craw, you just told me all I need to know about you. What an insult you threw out to hard working Americans who have stood on those assembly lines for years to make things better for future generations. You and those Southern Senators need to take a deeper look into what has kept this country going for 100 years. I would venture to guess that every one of those Southern gentlemen have had someone in their family come "North" to work in the auto factories in order to better themselves and give their children a better life. Now, they are kicking the auto industry when they are down and biting the very hand that has fed them and theirs for years. Why don't you leave the U.S.A. and maybe you'll get treated better by the Guatamalans, Germans or Japanese! WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN! | ||
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field Post Number: 1374 Registered: 01-2008 |
The ultimate lowest common denominator of the global wage scale is that of peasants, not including the exceptionally talented, criminals, politicians, or those born into wealth. (Message edited by Flanders_field on December 12, 2008) | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 451 Registered: 10-2006 |
Can someone please explain why an auto worker who does a job that ANYONE on earth could do should receive the same (or higher) pay and benefits than an engineer with a masters degree and very specialized skills? It makes no sense! What is the point of education and skills, if you can make more doing a union-protected job that has no relevance in today's competitive global marketplace? Why not pay Burger King workers more than surgeons, while you're at it? | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 1269 Registered: 11-2003 |
And Germans have national health care. And Free College Education. Their labor unions and the national average is to have 35 hour workweeks (calling Americans who work 60 hours lazy?) MANDATED seats on the Board for their unions. And their welfare system makes us look like Uncle Scrooge as far as supports. The reason those countries don't have health care costs on the back of their companies is that the GOVERNMENT pays for it. Since they DO NOT here, someone has to pick up the tab. Sorry, I don't want to be a third world nation. That's not the America I dream about. You also have no idea what a lineworker job entails. They're not taking anyone now for new hires that doesn't have an associates degree or equiv. experience - I was told directly that you need an associates degree or 2+ years of computer experience to work on the line now. It's turning into a high tech job, involving robotics and more. It's also dangerous. As someone who knows people who have FALLEN INTO MOLTEN STEEL AND DIED, others WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIMBS IN PRESSES, if you're going to work a job that your life could be on the line for you deserve a living wage. It's only human dignity we're talking about. I'd like to see your ass work a line and see how "lazy" it is. Call my friends who have DOCTORATE degrees and used the line pay to fund their expensive schooling, which they would of gotten FOR FREE in Germany. Call them idiots. Look, I've been critical of unions in the past myself, and also management due to their stratification of unions and management stifling innovation, but you're so full of misinformation I can't take you seriously. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 452 Registered: 10-2006 |
Mashugruskie, I am NOT anti-union, I am anti-UAW. They refuse to live in the real world. The real world is that it isn't 1950 anymore, and we are competing in a global economy. You need to have competitive salaries with German and Japanese automakers. The alternatives are 1. The Big Three disappear, or 2. The Big Three all go bankrupt, and move everything to the developing world. | ||
Norwalk Member Username: Norwalk Post Number: 436 Registered: 11-2006 |
All the Engineers I know that work for GM make alot more than any UAW worker as a matter of fact I know a couple of people who aren't Engineers that work for GM and they too are making more that $80,000. Crawford why dont you to turn you hatred towards say The Major League Baseball Players Union What happened to this Forum? it seems the more people that find out about it the Uglier and Meaner people get. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 451 Registered: 10-2007 |
And you, sir, are a consultant. What education level does it take to profit upon the sweat of others? I'd think that you would be the one to turn your head and avert your eyes when taking your paycheck, supporting third world sweatshops and tin horn dictators. You probably would run out of the average automobile manufacturing assemply plant within hours if asked to do what some of these "overpaid" people do. Your 80 thousand figure is vastly inflated. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 879 Registered: 02-2007 |
What's the matter Craw, are you sorry you didn't make the right career decision? Sounds to me like envy and jealousy are rearing their ugly heads. The autoworkers are making good wages for a hard days work...and why not? The Big 3 have been doing very well up till now, profits for the CEO's and the company so why not for the worker? Don't they deserve it, college education or not. In my job I was considered a professional, I made a damn good wage with benefits and retirement, was a union member, and I was not a college graduate. You couldn't have done what I did, I can tell just by what you've said so far. WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN! (Message edited by Buyamerican on December 12, 2008) | ||
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field Post Number: 1375 Registered: 01-2008 |
Do professional athletes who belong to unions deserve the obscene salaries that they command for playing a game? Even if you aren't a fan, you pay a part of their salaries through local taxes and/or the products that you buy. | ||
Mashugruskie Member Username: Mashugruskie Post Number: 363 Registered: 09-2006 |
My husband is blue collar, Union-salaried. He doesn't make 80k per year and would have to put in 65 plus hours per week, every week, to make that. You are misinformed. My husband did one year at Ford's steel mill. His uniform was burnt up and every night he washed metal flecks and scabs off his body. That was in 1975 and he got out. The steel mills are hazardous, line work is mind-numbing, repetitive motion that breaks down the body. Those workers EARN their money and have the right to have some protections. I've already stated that Toyota pays their workers $30 per hour. That's more than our Union workers. Those in non-union automotive work have protections through laws that the UAW fought for! Your mentality regarding the Big 3 moving to third world countries does sound just like "Work Will Make You Free". Work for nothing with no protections. | ||
Lodgedodger Member Username: Lodgedodger Post Number: 1092 Registered: 05-2008 |
>>What an insult you threw out to hard working Americans who have stood on those assembly lines for years to make things better for future generations.<< Nicely stated buy. Thanks. Perhaps we should all ignore this tool. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 453 Registered: 10-2006 |
Norwalk, the difference is that GM can lay off their engineers or cut their pay, and therefore, engineers are not the problem. They can't do the same with their auto workers. The engineers are paid "market rates". If they don't like the pay, they can go somewhere else. In contrast, the auto workeers are not paid market rates, and so can't go anywhere else, because nobody will pay 85K + benefits for unskilled laborers. GM can lay off their excess white collar employees, but they can't do anything about their UAW employees, and it is killing Detroit! I don't see what the big deal is if laborers "only" make 50k a year. Boo hoo! It's still a lot more than the average salary in the U.S. (to say nothing of the rest of the world). If you don't like it, take night classes at Wayne or whatever, and get a better job! | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 2195 Registered: 04-2006 |
Its like being in a national park. Do not feed the bears. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 455 Registered: 10-2006 |
Sorry, BuyAmerican, not jealous, just angry at the UAW destroying Detroit. I make more than the union folks, I have a skill set that will always be in demand, and I prefer work that isn't mind-numbing and repetitive. At the same time, if I were to run into financial difficulty, unlike these clowns, I would have no problem taking a menial wage job to support my family. Unlike the UAW bums, I am not too "good" to work hard for a paycheck, and there's no job beneath me. I would happily shovel s--- to put food on the table. Whatever it takes to make a buck, and no, no company "owes" me anything. I was fortunate enough to grow up in the great state of Michigan, where we have wonderful public schools and universities, and where there are MANY opportunities outside of the UAW. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9005 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Famous last words. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 1015 Registered: 05-2006 |
"WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN!" "What makes a car American?":http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/ 12/american.cars/index.html | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 954 Registered: 11-2004 |
The FACT is that UAW workers don't make significantly more than their non unionized counterparts. The Germans and Japaneses automaker don't have subsidize healhtcAre for retirees becuase that taken care by their national governments. quote: http://www.cnbc.com/id/28157615/ (Message edited by ERIC on December 12, 2008) | ||
Maof2 Member Username: Maof2 Post Number: 1197 Registered: 06-2008 |
Oh no, here we go again. Crawford and Englishskills are one in the same. | ||
Mashugruskie Member Username: Mashugruskie Post Number: 365 Registered: 09-2006 |
Crawford, once again you put us down. I have 20 years experience (I've never been in the Union but my background was automotive engineering) and I would not hesitate to work at Taco Bell to feed my family. I have sent out 200 resume's and been offered nothing. Once the S**t hits the fan, I have no problem loading your burrito if I have to, digging graves, or phone sex. I'll do just about anything but steal to care for my family. And I still support the UAW. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 457 Registered: 10-2006 |
Mash, WHY do you support the UAW? They are part of the reason that it is so difficult to find a job in metro Detroit. They have killed the local economy. If you could eliminate the UAW with the flick of a switch, you would IMMEDIATELY improve metro Detroit's competitiveness, and would improve everyone's job prospects. Who in their right mind would invest in a business where the employers have little say on how many employees they have and what they make? |
