  Bragaboutme Member Username: Bragaboutme Post Number: 250 Registered: 02-2008 |
http://www.shorpy.com/node/197 ?size=_original In the middle of woodward you will notice the rail line. I find it interesting to see the amount of buildings that are either gone or replaced. If you had the chance to change this pic or keep it the same +/- some buildings what would it be? To start I would put the Renaissance center (In the form of one tall tower, redesigned) where the old Ctyhall was? where One Kennedy Center is, Compuware would be in the hudson's building. Just my thoughts. This thread is about the Light Rail System that has been proposed, but some can only dream about how Downtown could've looked if progress continued. Don't get the wrong idea I like the direction Downtown is going, and the progress it along with Mid-town has made. | ||
Bragaboutme Member Username: Bragaboutme Post Number: 251 Registered: 02-2008 |
Thanks to RymeswithRawk for the Link. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1649 Registered: 04-2006 |
What sticks out to me chiefly is how dirty the air was. I don't want that again. Secondly all the the streetcars are pointed out of the City. I don't want that again either! | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 1284 Registered: 04-2005 |
What is that building on the right where I94 is now? It's just in the foreground of the Whitney mansion | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1728 Registered: 11-2003 |
^^ that's a pretty long building. It looks like a factory or something. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 673 Registered: 04-2006 |
Where I-94 is now isn't in this pic. The caption says it was taken from the Maccabees Building, which is at Woodward and Putnam. The first building you can see in the foreground is where the Utrecht is now at Woodward and Warren. As for the building you asked about, could it be the Vernors plant? I think it was right around Woodward and Canfield, which is the corner the Whitney is on. | ||
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 543 Registered: 06-2007 |
"What is that building on the right where I94 is now?" Where I94 is today is 1 mile North, and not in the picture. This is Woodward and Warren. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1401 Registered: 11-2003 |
The Vernor's plant was downtown near the river until 1954. (Message edited by Burnsie on May 28, 2008) | ||
Jman Member Username: Jman Post Number: 194 Registered: 10-2006 |
In 1942 The Vernors plant was at the foot of Woodward, just north of the Bob-Lo dock. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 674 Registered: 04-2006 |
Well, so much for that theory. I'm curious now, though. | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 1287 Registered: 04-2005 |
OK, I thought the church with the green roofed steeple was Rosary, but it's Woodward Ave. Presbyterian. What's the building kitty-corner from that? It is a long building, looks almost like a car factory. | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 2188 Registered: 08-2007 |
Vernor's had something just south of the corner of Forest and Woodward in the 60s. I seem to recall it was a bit back off Woodward and wasn't as big as that building. I think it is on this side of the big long building, with the roof on top of the roof, and behind it is the building Verne's was in. My husband thinks the big long building was Kueffler and Esser, K&E Engineering Supplies. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2235 Registered: 09-2007 |
Back to the original topic. No, I can't see Detroit like that ever again. We've lost half of our mid-rises and our density. Besides, with the infrastructure in place now, it would be impossible to get a streetcar system in the middle of Woodward now. Although I would have love if Detroit kept all of its density, skyscrapers and infrastructures it had before the 80s. | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 2189 Registered: 08-2007 |
That should be Keuffel and Esser, a manufacturer of surveying instruments. | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 1290 Registered: 04-2005 |
And I'm wrong again. That's First Congregational not Presbyterian. I'll just sit back and be quiet now. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1404 Registered: 11-2003 |
Detroitrise wrote, "with the infrastructure in place now, it would be impossible to get a streetcar system in the middle of Woodward now." What infrastructure would be in the way? (Besides Campus Martius Park, of course). Have there been additional pipes and conduit laid near the surface, in the middle of Woodward over its whole length? | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2238 Registered: 09-2007 |
Well no, but what would we do with all the traffic if Woodward were to become a 4 lane Avnue again? | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 676 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hopefully Woodward would get so congested that everyone would have to ride the streetcar.  Seriously, Woodward *is* effectively four lanes for most of the distance between McNichols and downtown (two parking lanes, two driving lanes in each direction, one left turn lane). Adding rail would eliminate the on-street parking in some areas, but would also reduce demand for it, and there are plenty of side streets and surface lots all along Woodward. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1405 Registered: 11-2003 |
When Woodward was narrower and had streetcars, there was a LOT more auto traffic. Now that there's a lot less traffic, I think 2 lanes could be sacrificed for streetcar tracks without much problem. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2239 Registered: 09-2007 |
Seriously, I thought we counted all the lanes of an avenue together on both side (not by each direction). Also, back then, Detroit didn't sprawl out to gazoo and people generally would take the streetcar more often or walk. Now we've gotten so wrapped around the car culture (and we have so many clueless suburbanites coming into downtown lately), that turning Woodward back into a 4 lane avenue could cause issues. Look at what happen to Gratiot just recently when they were repairing the streets (they reduced the street to 4 lanes). No one can tell me that wasn't terrible. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 677 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote:Who the fuck cares? quote:Maybe because there was a streetcar to take? quote:Maybe, if you didn't add a streetcar at the same time. Most "clueless suburbanites" take I-75 anyway. If there are some die-hard holdout clueless suburbanites who refuse to ride transit or use expressways, there's always Hamilton. Three blocks west of Woodward and no traffic ever. quote:I'm sure someone could, but it's not like you'd listen. Woodward was down to one lane in each direction (oh, all right TWO LANES TOTAL) a few years back when they were resurfacing it through Highland Park, and guess what? I survived. So did everyone else who drove that route regularly. Maybe they had to leave for work five or ten minutes early. Boo-fucking-hoo. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2240 Registered: 09-2007 |
"Who the fuck cares?" Obviously you do since you're getting all excited about it. "Maybe because there was a streetcar to take?" Maybe so, but you can't prove to me that keeping the streetcars would have slowed up the sprawl or saved our density. "Maybe, if you didn't add a streetcar at the same time. Most "clueless suburbanites" take I-75 anyway. If there are some die-hard holdout clueless suburbanites who refuse to ride transit or use expressways, there's always Hamilton. Three blocks west of Woodward and no traffic ever." Yeah right, your typical "clueless suburbanite" would be afraid to travel down I-75 at night in Detroit, let along Hamilton at 3 PM in the middle of June. "I'm sure someone could, but it's not like you'd listen. Woodward was down to one lane in each direction (oh, all right TWO LANES TOTAL) a few years back when they were resurfacing it through Highland Park, and guess what? I survived. So did everyone else who drove that route regularly. Maybe they had to leave for work five or ten minutes early. Boo-fucking-hoo." Not everyone can deal with small issues like you, especially when we're sensationalizing a minor freeway project on the westside (DODGE THE FREAKIN LODGE!). But, I refuse to argue with you since you're not seeing my point. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 678 Registered: 04-2006 |
Uh, I said this: quote:You responded with this: quote:Who's missing whose point? | ||
Bragaboutme Member Username: Bragaboutme Post Number: 253 Registered: 02-2008 |
Good observation DetroitPlanner, and the only one going into Downtown (get your magnifying glasses out) is in front of the Bonstelle Theater (The one with the Dome roof). Speaking of The Bonstelle Theater, what building is that just beyond the red church steeple?, looks like a hotel, or apartment building? | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 873 Registered: 07-2006 |
Interesting to compare that picture to one from the same angle (albeit smaller) from the Midtown Vortex thread of February 07 (wow, was it that long ago?) https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/91697/92879.html | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 185 Registered: 08-2006 |
Question about the church that is in the left of the photo. Is that the one that people are questioning? I have a photo of a church that looks similar to that but there is a freeway right next to it at as it sits on the corner of Woodward and the freeway. That church is a Catholic church. Trying to figure out the current buildings in comparison to this 1942 photo. All I can say is Wow! A wide street with wide sidewalks, parking along the side for cars, four lanes for cars and a dual trolley track in the middle. That's the way streets should be designed. Someone said that it wouldn't be possible to do that again on Woodward. After seeing this photo, I bet there are a lot of people out there that think it is possible again. Look how efficient it is. So many choices. | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 1300 Registered: 04-2005 |
Peach, the church you're referring to is the one I thought was the one in the picture originally. Your church is Our Lady of the Rosary on Woodward at I 94. The church in the picture is Historic First Congregational on Forest and Woodward. | ||
Bragaboutme Member Username: Bragaboutme Post Number: 255 Registered: 02-2008 |
Thanks Peach, As much as I would like it to be elevated the street level Trolley system would definitely work. Parking would be an issue when it comes to the turning lane, but that can be worked out. For the ones who argued about other routes most people in the region take routes that are destination specific, and many do know how to manuever in and around downtown (in 2000 different story, or should I say before the super bowl) the trend now IS to know how to get around traffic. The powers that be should be taking notice to the jump in ridership in our City and Metro area, and other major cities so we can be in line to catch up with the rest of the modern world. | ||
Living_in_the_d Member Username: Living_in_the_d Post Number: 249 Registered: 01-2008 |
Yeah, Well as They say, History repeats itself, So all that was old, will be new again. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 417 Registered: 10-2006 |
Looks like that church expansion gobbled up nearly an entire block of mid rise storefronts. I feel like a broken record here saying that the lack of contiguous and affordable mid rise has stymied retail growth and has nearly killed any chance of the area becoming walkable. The largest swaths or mid rise we have left are Vernor in Mexican town, which is arguably the most vibrant walkable place in Detroit and Michigan Avenue. These huge avenues are intimidating and often desolate. Michigan Avenue and Woodward should be reduced either via a streetcar line or center median. I know Ill hear bitching on this one about commute time but too bad. Its a big friggin city there should be horrible commute times. Ever drive the Dan Ryan or for that matter anyplace in Chicago. Granted this is comparing apples and oranges but the less lanes and the beginnings of light rail will encourage growth along the line of infill midrise and residential. The increase traffic congestion due to lanes being occupied by rail will lead to higher ridership and people moving closer to their jobs and centers of entertainment so that don't have to deal with commute. Youll also see less drunkards driving around endangering all of out lives with safe reliable transit in place. /end rant |
