  Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 128 Registered: 04-2006 |
I thought this fellow made a good point: "Some blame Michigan's brain drain on gloomy weather or high taxes, he said. But many of the most prosperous states -- and those most popular with young professionals -- are in the Northeast, a region not known for low taxes or sunshine. "My argument is, college-educated folks like public services," Glazer said. "Taxes are an indication of affluence and education, not a problem. They pay for public transit, arts, parks, good schools. The only way to grow an economy is with public investments." http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/16434975/detail.html I think of the nice places throughout the world that I like to travel to, where they have great transportation, parks, etc., and most of them have higher taxes. Are we making the necessary investments to keep people, to make Detroit cool, etc? Like I said, I thought the person quoted made a great point. As I see the city sell-off or close all the cultural assets that made this city great (at one time), maybe we're going in the exact opposite direction we should be going in, that we should have raised taxes as was necessary to keep SOME of these gems. Higher taxes would push people out to the suburbs like they do in Seattle, San Diego, etc. (Wouldn't L. Brooks love that? More rap music and wig shops ? LOL) If Oakland county was the new "cheap place to live", I bet ole' Brooks might consider moving back to Detroit and running for mayor (I'm joking of course that that will ever happen).What do others think? I would be interested to hear your opinions. | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 3469 Registered: 11-2003 |
Why am I not surprised to hear an argument from someone from A^2 saying that taxes are good. I'll bet he finds Cuba & China more to his liking. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 2382 Registered: 07-2004 |
Did I hear a few thousand gaskets just popping out in Oakland County?  | ||
Jman Member Username: Jman Post Number: 196 Registered: 10-2006 |
I wouldn't mind high taxes for great city services but it seems that every time my taxes go up a politician goes on another junket. | ||
Living_in_the_d Member Username: Living_in_the_d Post Number: 251 Registered: 01-2008 |
Yeah, Hopefully it all comes together for the "D" | ||
Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 552 Registered: 06-2007 |
Good idea, Jhart. Let's figure out another way to persuade businesses and people to not want to relocate to the D. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4401 Registered: 06-2004 |
Taxes aren't bad if the funds are properly managed. Detroit's not exactly a poster child for fiscal responsibility and that, as much or more than anything, is the problem. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2526 Registered: 10-2006 |
Interestingly enough, the Danes are the happiest people in the world. They pay about two-thirds of their income in taxes. They don't mind because in return, the government covers the cost of so many programs for the public. Furthermore, people are less concerned about the money they make (or the profession they are in) giving them more freedom to follow passions and interests. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1766 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yes, its hard to trust government officials to spend as if it was their own money. Point in case, City "S" recently had a Police/Fire Millage. Sounds like a no-brainer, vote YES for Police and Firemen. Threats are shrill... you don't vote YES and you will be less safe. Then you dig a little deeper and realize that Police/Fire comes from the General Fund and if you all voted NO then likely it wouldnt be Police/Fire that would be cut, but rather the stupid crap like a City Calendar and the idiot that produces it. Would the millage funds be ear-marked for Police/Fire? Yes. Would they only benefit Police/Fire? Not likely. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1767 Registered: 11-2003 |
Shucks, make that "Case in point" lest I be called on it. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 6180 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: Denmark Feels the Pinch as Young Workers Flee to Lands of Lower Taxes http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12 /26/business/worldbusiness/26l abor.html I guess people are voting with their feet that they are NOT the happiest people in the world. (Message edited by perfectgentleman on May 30, 2008) | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1334 Registered: 12-2006 |
Sure, East, the millage funds would be earmarked, but it'd be a shell game just like the lottery supposedly providing funding for education. Here's how the lottery was marketed to us when the state wanted to start selling us on the idea of Salvation Through Gambling: let us run a lottery and we'll put all the money into education! Here's what actually happened: as much funding as the lottery put into education, the general fund money that used to go to education was cut by that much or more, so the state gets all the lottery money and education gets no more than it used to get. Your police/fire millage will work the same way, trust me. Put a suit on a crook, put him in a nice office, give him a fake-ass high paying job and a taxpayer funded pension, he's still a crook. | ||
Ndmom Member Username: Ndmom Post Number: 104 Registered: 05-2005 |
High taxes. But we ALSO pay much higher car/house insurance and if you don't want to go to a public school, we pay ALOT for private education. Charter schools weren't around when sending my kids to school. There was a period of time my husband worked 3 jobs to keep the kids in Notre Dame High School (thus NDmom). And I was working full time but just 1 job. Unless the money is coming out of your pocket for what you are getting, Detroiters are getting the shaft. Plus the mayor misusing the $$. But I think the key to solving alot of problems is education. And families staying together. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 313 Registered: 11-2007 |
My taxes are high enough, but thanks. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 130 Registered: 04-2006 |
Wow...lot's of opinions in 10 minutes! That's good. Good point CharllotePaul about the Danes - I forgot about that - I heard that also. Other posters were exactly correct that part of this has to be transparency and responsible government to spend the money wisely. The argument about dissuading companies to move here holds little water. California and New York have higher taxes than Detroit - both places considered chic and cool to live - and they have plenty of businesses in both those states. As others have put it, it's not necessarily higher taxes that turn people off, but what you get for the higher taxes. In Detroit, as is now, we get nothing for the higher taxes. P.S. I'm not from A2, I live in Detroit. | ||
Magnasco Member Username: Magnasco Post Number: 261 Registered: 10-2003 |
But isn't the millage already one of the highest in the region? Why isn't anyone saying that the taxes are ALREADY high. The problem is that noone wants to move in and buy houses and so the amount collected in property taxes is low because of so many proposal A capped properties. What the city needs is to incentivize the buyer so that they feel they are getting a deal. To most people an aging, possibly run down property in a bad neighborhood isn't a deal no matter how low you price it, especially when you are paying something like 70 mills to own it. The city needs to cut the property and the income taxes so that folks feel that they are getting a bargain. Then it will have the necessary turnover of the properties so that they can uncap from the proposal A nightmare. That all being said, is there any chance of getting proposal A overturned statewide at this point? Now that the suburb houses are declining in value, I imagine that cap isn't as appealing to them as it was when they passed it. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 131 Registered: 04-2006 |
"But isn't the millage already one of the highest in the region? Why isn't anyone saying that the taxes are ALREADY high." Like I said, it's relative to what you're getting for those high taxes. Along with higher taxes comes fiscal responsibility. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 6181 Registered: 03-2006 |
Before someone advocates higher taxes, shouldn't it be inherent on the recipient of those taxes (in this case city government) to demonstrate that they can effectively manage those assets and actually IMPROVE city services? In the case of Detroit, I don't see how anyone can make that argument. They aren't even doing the basics well. That and the fact they have a criminal running the city and a council that acts like a bunch of 3 year olds. Do you really want to give them MORE money to squander? | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2528 Registered: 10-2006 |
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories /2008/02/14/60minutes/main3833 797.shtml http://abcnews.go.com/2020/sto ry?id=4086092 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/522 4306.stm You have to admit Perfectgentleman, that there is a certain comfort in knowing that you can choose essentially any profession, when someone is not as concerned about a certain income or achieving a certain status. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 2384 Registered: 07-2004 |
He doesn't have to admit anything. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 132 Registered: 04-2006 |
I agree Perfectgentleman. I'm not saying we are even close to fiscal responsibility. I just thought the quote made SOME sense in that most nice places are NOT the cheapest places to live. Granted, I would not want higher taxes with these fools we have now running city government. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 1240 Registered: 01-2007 |
High taxes do NOT equal happiness. If it were that simple Detroiters would be happy campers, and their fellow urbanites would be ecstatic. If only the politicians in charge of it (the taxes) would use common sense and be some what responsible, we would all be smiling. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 2385 Registered: 07-2004 |
Yeah, but in those European countries, they have subsidized education, national health care, multi-modal mass transit, arts programs, general subsidies, etc. Those are the sorts of things tax monies go to. In Detroit, the tax monies are used to ... well ... manage the ongoing disaster. Pick up garbage, mow weeds, arrest people, run jails, offer education of last resort, etc. The reason is works so well in Europe is that nobody gripes about their taxes "going to somebody else." They see their taxes being spent right in front of them, on essential services that they actually use. Another thing: For all the griping about taxes and money being spent corruptly, what about that $300,000,000 a day that we're blowing on no-bid contracts and a botched, unnecessary war? Aren't you guys at least a little angry about that? | ||
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001 Post Number: 3470 Registered: 11-2003 |
City "S" = Eastpointe? | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 6182 Registered: 03-2006 |
Good point Bulletmagnet, the article is misleading in that it seems to equate happiness with high taxes. There are any number of other reasons that the Danes are happy with their lives. Perhaps people in Denmark get more "bang for the buck" out of their tax dollars. There are also cultural differences as well, up until the influx of Muslums, Denmark was basically a homogeneous society which stressed total assimilation of people migrating there. Either way, what they are doing in Denmark does not necessarily translate to the situation here. | ||
Savannah Member Username: Savannah Post Number: 47 Registered: 02-2008 |
I don't think the Danes have made crime and punishment or the war on drugs their national pastime.It's quite expensive,and draines taxes away from "services that they actually use" | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 133 Registered: 04-2006 |
I agree that high taxes do not equal happiness; we all know that from living in Detroit. But as we try to become world-class we still have more ghetto housing than any other community around. Case in point: As they build 100, 200, and 300K condos in Midtown, the city builds more public housing (Third/Seldon) just after they finally tear down the projects on Martin Luther King and Third! My cop friends from WSU say that they constantly trace crime back to that housing project. People buying condos over the last few years "because it was cool" are now realizing that the high taxes and LACK of city services is not so cool when you got thugs living across the street. The thugs live there because it's cheap! I'm not advocating that this is the total solution, but it is something to think about. Having higher taxes is not ALWAYS bad depending on what you get for your money. We're not getting shit at the moment which is why so many people are leaving. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2534 Registered: 10-2006 |
"The reason is works so well in Europe is that nobody gripes about their taxes "going to somebody else." They see their taxes being spent right in front of them, on essential services that they actually use." It does also help that the Danes are nearly homogenious--white and Lutheran. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 2386 Registered: 07-2004 |
Well, we're supposedly homogenous too: We're Americans, aren't we? | ||
Savannah Member Username: Savannah Post Number: 48 Registered: 02-2008 |
They just need to make the housing projects more upscale. They could do that with the extra tax money. |
