Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » Anyone want to help me start the tranportation revolution? « Previous Next »
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 352
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

O.K.

So we've got some cool ideas out there. From Air compressor powered cars from India, to Segway Unicyles all the way to good ole' fashioned bicycles. We've got mag-lev technology that can get us up to 300 mph and we have a population that of like 20% without transportation.

If their is anyone with any mechanical skills and anyone else with a home workshop that we can reinvent transportation. POST HERE!

I live on the Ferndale / Royal Oak border and i work downtown. I can meet anywhere along the Woodward corridor (i'm limited by bus routes). I was thinking that the custom motorcycle shop in Ferndale would be a good place to start, but i don't have money for a custom cycle.

We have the technology people, lets work on getting it into the marketplace.

Cheers!
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Bigglenlake
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Username: Bigglenlake

Post Number: 67
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Getting what, exactly?
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D_mcc
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Username: D_mcc

Post Number: 734
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a pair of roller blades and maybe a razor scooter...

MORE PIECES TO THE PUZZLE!
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4963
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rickshaws (like that one episode of Seinfeld).

I think biking needs to really be pushed in this extremely flat area with wide roads. It is ideal for bike commutes, but we need some bike lanes.
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Bigglenlake
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Username: Bigglenlake

Post Number: 70
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The commuting by bike is easy. It's parking the bike and having it be there when you want to go home that gets a little sketchy.
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Johnnny5
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Username: Johnnny5

Post Number: 759
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 12:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

www.go-one.us

This seems like a great 4 season approach for cycling commuters.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 1144
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whatever kind of world altering vehicle you folks come up with, please, for my sake, make sure it's powered by hydrocarbons.
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 629
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it cheaper to own a horse to use for transportation than a car?

If so, let's bring back horse travel.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 4156
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about a return to horse power?


pic
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 631
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

THAT's what I'M talking about.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1362
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back in those days there was a different kind of pollution problem. One book I read talked about the difficulties travelers in London, England had with the "mud in the streets", only the word "mud" was asterisked, and the footnote said:

"* A euphemism."
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1698
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think we should run Donkey carts on all the major streets in the Metro. Maybe implement some giant slides as well (ex. the 7 mile to 8 mile slide). In case anyone is so dense, I'm completely joking.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 4157
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Back in those days there was a different kind of pollution problem. One book I read talked about the difficulties travelers in London, England had with the "mud in the streets", only the word "mud" was asterisked, and the footnote said:



Hire some people to clean it up and deliver it to the urban farms. No problem.
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Pete
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Username: Pete

Post Number: 113
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everyone I know living in Ferndale, and a guy in Detroit, are buying mopeds. It's what the cool kids and the hipsters are doing. Really, they're just a bunch of dorks that hang out at www.mopedarmy.com. I have ridden them, though, and it's a lot of fun, especially if you live close enough to work that you can commute with one. One in working order seems to have doubled in price over the last year to about $600 or $700.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 2479
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get a horse, mister!
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 7114
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How's it going so far?
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 724
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 3:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.getkurrent.com

I think you could look into compiling a basic list of alternative forms of transportation. Segways and scooters are out there. Cars like the Kurrent and other neighborhood vehicles seem to have people interested. However, there is no where to buy them. Kind of have to have a dealership nearby to buy one, as they don't go far.

Start by getting dealerships to carry them. It is a great cheap way for used car dealerships to enter the new vehicle market. Several are doing it (with some success) up in Saginaw, I have seen them for sale, and seen a few on the road.

Another thing that was mentioned above is getting better biking conditions in Michigan's urban areas. There is a couple petitions going around, they should be about a week down the forum list. There are also several other topics down there that you might want to read (if you haven't already).

All those little things would be a huge help in getting bigger transit projects to gain steam.

We could really use a dealership in or near the CBD on a highly traveled road. It's all about marketing in Detroit right now. Many don't agree with me on that, but I really think most businesses doing bad in Detroit right now are not marketing themselves or their products properly.

Oh, forgot to mention, if you can get a neighborhood vehicle to travel 40-45 mph, you'd sell a lot more. Many suburbanites live in areas where 35 mph is significantly under the normal speed limit. It seems to be a minor issue with some people (from friends and family who are planning on buying one).
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Reddog289
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Username: Reddog289

Post Number: 353
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 3:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

S.O.D. with that thing i could go back and forth to work on 4cents a day. As for me got to get up today burn up gas to see racers burn up gas at MIS.
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Zrx_doug
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Username: Zrx_doug

Post Number: 171
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you really wanna start a revolution, bring back steam power..using today's technology, it's feasible to create a steam engine that is FAR more efficient than any internal combustion engine. Internal combustion is by nature inefficient..you convert chemical energy into heat energy, upwards of 50% of that heat is wasted, needing a cooling system to bleed the unused heat into the atmosphere.
By contrast, steam power uses the fuel's chemical energy to create stored heat energy at a far higher level of efficiency.
Do a Google search for the "Doble" steam car, it'll give you a clue as to the potential of steam as an efficient motive power. Not only energy efficient, but incredibly clean-burning as well.
Picture a gasoline-powered vehicle that is nearly zero-emissions due to the high temp and controlled combustion of fuel, and very efficient by nature since the heat produced by combustion is stored rather than wasted.
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 633
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does one need a license to drive a motorscooter or moped on surface streets and mile roads. Does one have to wear a helmet?

Seriously. What are the laws on that?
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 1944
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Kurrent is unfortunately out of business.

However, there are many many other electric car companies popping out of the ground all over the country. It is kind of exciting - like back in the 1900s with all the hundred of car companies in this area competing against each other. Who will come out on top?

I kind of liked this vehicle http://www.what-a-rush.com/ind ex2.html It's a recumbent electric trike. Looks like fun.

The other electric car company that just might (and I said MIGHT) change the world is the Zenn electric vehicle. They have an exclusive contract with EESTOR to create an electric vehicle that runs off of ultracapacitors. Ultracapacitors are light, cheap, non-toxic, do not wear out, are not effected by weather, etc. etc. If EESTOR can do all that they say that they will be able to do, then the problems of the electric car will be more or less solved. That is a big "if" though.

No innovation or new ideas, however, will come from here. Just read some of the posts on this site and the conservative boneheads who are just waiting to jump on any new idea and squash it before it has a chance to prove itself and you will see a slice of the mentality that will never lead to new innovation, new ideas, or new ways of doing ANYTHING here.

Look to California or the East Coast if you want innovation.
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 1945
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JB3,

You might want to check out: www.michiganeaa.org if you are interested in electric vehicles.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 732
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you sure about the Kurrent? They appear to be selling them in Saginaw, and just made updates on their site.

Ford will also be making a neighborhood vehicle by 2010 (I think).
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 1947
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GM will of course be making a full electric vehicle by 2010 (maybe) the Volt.

There are plenty of companies making NEVs if you are looking for one. The most famous, of course, is the GEM.

All the "news" items on the Kurrent site are from 2007, and I have heard from others (unconfirmed) that they are out of business, so yeah, I think they are dead. Saginaw might be selling old stock (2007 models). I am not sure where you saw updates on the Kurrent site, it looks unchanged to me.

It's too bad.
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Waymooreland
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Username: Waymooreland

Post Number: 72
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let us not forget the charm and practicality of the high wheel bicycle:



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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 634
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That bike looks like a total ball buster.
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 354
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great stuff people! I love where these ideas are going. If you want to know who comes out on top...get me in the shop with you.

The Kurrent is very hip and a step in the right direction, but i'm not interested in hip, i'm interested in the transportation revolution.

Keep em coming, the more we post, the more people will start to think outside the box!

Cheers!
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 736
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Public transportation, and green transportation IS outside the box in Michigan. :-)
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Zrx_doug
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Username: Zrx_doug

Post Number: 183
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nah.."green" transportation already exists..if we could get all the singletons out of their SUV's and onto motorcycles for three seasons (four for the ballsy ones) we'd see a HUGE difference in fuel consumption, grid lock, and motorist attitudes. I know I'm always happy when I'm on two wheels.
:-)
Besides, where else but a motorcycle showroom can ya find a vehicle that pulls down 40 mpg or better & will break 160 mph? It satisfies the musclecar junkie AND the penny-pincher in me.
:-)

I'm dead serious about the steam engine, BTW. The Doble was pulling down over 15 mpg, able to break 100 mph, and making nearly zero emissions back in the twenties..in a car that was pushing two and a half tons, using ancient technology.
Spruce up the tech with computer controlled injection, drop a ton or so of dead weight, add in modern transmission, tires, bearings, brakes, & aerodynamics technology, and you'd have a contender.
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 355
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 1:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

check out this bad boy..

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/ 06/10/transportation-tuesday-l umeneo-smera/#more-11622
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Birmingham
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Username: Birmingham

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit and the rest of the midwest needs one of these...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B ullet_train
You could go from pontiac to the airport in 10 minutes. You could go to chicago, new york, flint at 200 mph and save on time and gas. The "new people mover" would make detroit a destination location and would bring chicago gamblers to our casinos.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 739
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Girly said she would kill me if I ever got a motorcycle.

LOL, she thinks they are unsafe. I don't agree, but I think a lot of other people would say the same thing.

It should also be noted that since 2000, I have managed about one major accident a year (less than half were actually my fault). So her argument is probably valid, LOL!
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Zrx_doug
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Username: Zrx_doug

Post Number: 185
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 1:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Bad" being the operative word. It's got all the safety drawbacks of a motorcycle, but none of the "fun factor" that makes up for 'em.
Also, I'm too dang claustrophobic for that thing, and I don't think the tech is here yet for safe & reliable Li-Ion batteries of that size.

Truth be told, I'm not really sold on the idea of rechargeable electric vehicles for the masses at this point in time.
A. There's fairly decent amount of parasitic energy loss anytime you transport energy generated elsewhere to a remote site.
B. If the whole country decided to go electric, it's likely our power grid wouldn't be able to take the hit. When the "green" folks become more receptive to nuclear power and more plants are built, maybe.

I'd prefer to see a vehicle which performs it's own transaction from chemical to mechanical, just a more efficient method than the current IC engines. As I said, they make use of a fraction of the energy released by burning fuel, and convert the rest to waste heat.
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 356
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

F..K MPG lets talk about how much life we can create per gallon (LPG).

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/ 04/15/oilgae-the-next-biofuel- from-algae/#more-9436
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Themax
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Username: Themax

Post Number: 874
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 2:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-1 3746_7-9876428-48.html
A company named Zero Pollution Motors says it plans to bring a car powered by air to the U.S. sometime in 2009 or 2010. The six pistons in the Air Car's engine are pushed by compressed air rather than gasoline combustion, an idea developed by F1 race car engineer Guy Negre. The car carries a compressor, making it possible to fill its compressed air tank by plugging it into an electrical outlet. At low speeds, the engine is cranked solely by air from the tank.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 741
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 3:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zrx_doug,

I get what you are saying. Furthermore, they don't hold a charge for long enough. Those neighborhood vehicles would require regular charging. Right now, no urban garage spaces in Detroit have a place to plug in. Plus, some currently just park on the road at night. Also, if I drove to work in one, I would probably need to have it charging once there. My hypothetical employer would probably not like that to much.

A portable solar charger would go a long way to solve some of these problems.

Anyone have any other ideas? That was the best I could think of.
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Strathcona
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Username: Strathcona

Post Number: 27
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zrx & SofD,

Think about capacitors, particularly, "super capacitors." They can go a long way for electric mobility. They might even sway your decision for stored energy—look it up, learn.
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Russix
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Username: Russix

Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone remember the discussion about a Tech shop? A sort of membership club which provides its members with private workspaces and access to larger industrial machines. With all the unemployed motorheads and engineers in this city, we'd probably would have produced a flying car that runs on water by now. But seriously though a Tech Shop type facility in the city would be very popular, help alot of business get past initial startup costs, and be a center of technical innovation in the Motor City.
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 363
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As well as local tool lending libraries.

Brilliant idea! Thanks Russix...sounds a little dangerous though. I wonder what the insurance premiums would be...
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 367
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oooh! I missed the membership part. That would take care of the premium. I'm in! Now who's up for hitting the airplane and helicopter graveyards?
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 7140
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember the Tech Shop thread. Apparently they are still going.

http://techshop.ws/
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 7141
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This young Michigander turned his Mazda pick-up truck into an electric vehicle.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2 008/01/17/update-on-teens-all- electric-1988-mazda-pickup-tru ck/
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 368
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course they are in the Bay Area. The difference is though that they are mostly white collar people playing at being grease monkeys. Detroit has mad skills in manufacturing...where the hell are our tech shops? I think i'll start one. Any ideas on a good location? Somewhere free is preferable:-).

And don't say Tech town unless you know i can get a good deal on the lease.
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 1974
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I looked into the TechShop idea and then gave it up because of liability issues.

The article that JL linked to is from a member of the Michigan Electric Auto Association (full disclosure, I am too) and has displayed his truck in Plymouth at the Green Fair. Here is another one of our members:

http://blog.mlive.com/annarbor news/2008/06/pittsfield_townsh ip_man_goes_g.html#comments

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2 008/06/08/retired-autoworker-c onverts-early-saturn-coupe-to- battery-power/

We had 5 cars on display this Friday at the Ann Arbor Green Fair including this bad boy:

http://www.detroitev.com/elect ric-vehicles.php
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 372
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That Roadster is pretty slick. Keepin it simple.

One question, what sort of safety requirements are mandated for a vehicle to be street legal? Don't they have to meet certain side, front and rear impact requirements for passenger cars, or is that just more for peace of mind marketing?
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 1976
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is sold as a kit car. You finish the assembly and then title it as such.

Kit cars are a loophole in the law. You need to realize that the car will not be as safe as a regular car, but will be safer than a motorcycle.

If you want regular safety standards, then convert an existing car to electric or wait for the Volt.
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Wolverine
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Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 483
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was looking at some bicycles the other day online that are powered by a very small discreet motor in the back sprocket. It's connected to a battery no bigger than a laptop battery. The bike goes 40 miles and will run full power until the battery is out of charge. It charges in the same amount of time as an ipod, and uses only 10 cents worth of electricity. You can detach the battery from the bike rack and plug it in the outlet in your office or cubicle. Its top speed is around 23 mph.

These powered bikes aren't new, but what is new is that they now look like normal bikes. Who would want a standard bicycle with ridiculous battery packs and large motors attached to it. Now all this stuff is hidden. And you can use it like a regular bicycle if you'd prefer to get exercise.

It's a good alternative for getting to work. My workplace doesn't have showers yet (we are soon installing them for all the cyclists) so using the power option would be good to avoid getting all hot and sweaty pedaling to work.

The same restrictions apply as they would to normal bikes. You don't need a license, you are permitted to ride on sidewalks wherever the law allows you to, but you must obey the same traffic laws as motorists when you are on the road.
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 373
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just curious as to what the law allows on the road. Thanks for the info Nainrouge.

I'm definitely interested in safety, the market demands it.
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Jb3
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Username: Jb3

Post Number: 374
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wolverine,

I like to hear that bikes are still such a viable option and that your workplace is seriously considering installing showers. It's part of a bigger trend towards healthy lifestyles.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 4212
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Commuting by horse:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 80627/ap_on_fe_st/odd_horse_co mmute

It doesn't say where they stabled the horses at the office.

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