  Leannam1989 Member Username: Leannam1989 Post Number: 7 Registered: 06-2008 |
Obviously not all of Detroit is decaying. But it's hard to ignore that there is some blight. What cities do you think compare? I've heard cities like Cleveland and St. Louis thrown around (though neither are as big as Detroit). Being familiar with St. Louis, I figured maybe this area of North St. Louis would compare http://tinyurl.com/6npngn You can see blocks of nothing, with maybe 1, 2, or 3 houses left. It's not the only bad neighborhood in North St. Louis. If you're still in the Google Maps window just type in 4052 Market Street. Scroll left and you'll find what used to be a house (likely taken down by brick rustlers and house strippers, not actually a bulldozer). Unfortunately in North St. Louis Paul McKee buys up all these houses. He can't tear them all down because some are in historic districts. So he takes a perfectly stable house (often one that was recently lived in) and takes the windows out of it, leaves it to brick rustlers and lets it fall down (or it becomes a risk of falling and city allows him to demolish it). Then there's so many empty homes that the people left on the block can't sell their house so he buys it from them cheap. Basically, he's trying to destroy blocks of North St. Louis and nobody knows what his plans are. Not all of the blight is his fault of course, but he's not helping. And for buying up all those houses, guess what? He gets tax breaks. Thank you, government. If you scroll just south of Mullanphy and 23rd you'll see the forest that was the Pruitt-Igoe housing project. It was built in 1954 and imploded in 1972. It was 57 acres, 33 11-story buildings. Now it's been an empty space for 36 years. The little building on the property I think used to be an electrical substation. Ideas have been floated around about Pruitt-Igoe, but nothing's been done. West of Pruitt-Igoe are some more empty blocks. St. Louis doesn't have the amount of empty homes as Detroit simply because St. Louis itself isn't as big. East St. Louis is pretty empty now, but it was never more than 100k people anyway. Though Old North St. Louis is seeing some improvement. http://onsl.org/ So, which cities do you think have blight like Detroit? Or have seen a similar amount of white flight? And in Detroit itself, what can citizens do to help their neighborhoods? I know I made a thread asking what you would do if you had the opportunity and the funds. But what can citizens do with the resources they have to help their neighborhoods? What does the city government need to do? And in your opinion what are some cities compared to Detroit? What have they been doing to correct it? What can Detroit do? I'm not asking for an essay. I'm just curious. I know Detroiters probably get tired of all the negative talk about Detroit. But what can be done to improve the neighborhoods? What can make Detroit better? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 2475 Registered: 07-2004 |
Philly is about the same size, geographically. | ||
Bigglenlake Member Username: Bigglenlake Post Number: 74 Registered: 05-2008 |
St. Louis is a disaster. They left the county in the late 1800s and now most of the money is located in the suburbs. Soooo, unlike in Detroit the city gets nada! | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6624 Registered: 11-2003 |
Portland, Oregon. Much smaller than Detroit and gentrifiying very fast. Many older post-WWII Black neighborhoods are turning back to people with money. Families with children, and gay couples now legally united. The poorer Blacks are moving from streets like NE 10th out to NE 106th. Cities can re-invent themselves. Rib shacks on ML King Blvd. are being supplanted by latte stands. New investent means high asessments, meaning higher property tax collections. This equals street repairs, better lighting, more garbage collection, and streetscape improvements. Oregon has statewide urban growth boudaries. Sprawl is discouraged by law. Infill is the thing all over Oregon. Old neighborhoods can provide new houses too. jjaba. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4964 Registered: 02-2005 |
From what you described, Jjaba, Portland isn't like Detroit at all. What would you like to compare Detroit to? Cities of similar size? If so, you have to be careful, because I don't think San Jose would be a good benchmark against Detroit. Similar density? In that case it would be many midwest cities excluding Chicago. Similar social problems and crime levels-- Camden and St. Louis? Similar rustbelt status-- Cleveland and Pittsburgh? Detroit is awfully big and it's really hot and cold in terms of what parts are growing and what parts are decaying, what parts are exceptionally safe and what parts are unsafe, etc etc. Most cities have good and bad sides, but rarely are they as intensely different as Detroit. The exclamation point on all this is the fact that so much of our city is just plain empty. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 569 Registered: 11-2003 |
Baghdad, Beirut, Nairobi come to mind | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 1599 Registered: 04-2005 |
Have you ever seen East St. Louis Illinois? | ||
Bigglenlake Member Username: Bigglenlake Post Number: 75 Registered: 05-2008 |
Yes, many times. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 255 Registered: 10-2006 |
Beirut is much better than Detroit. It's actually quite beautiful and is much safer. It's also one of the most liberal cities in the Middle East. Oh, and Lebanese women are often extremely hot. | ||
Bigglenlake Member Username: Bigglenlake Post Number: 76 Registered: 05-2008 |
Crawford and Rjlj- Why do you hate Detroit? | ||
Leannam1989 Member Username: Leannam1989 Post Number: 8 Registered: 06-2008 |
East St. Louis is pretty empty. But it's not as vast as Detroit. East St. Louis at it's peak was 100k people (20k or so now). If you want to see it here's a tour of it http://builtstlouis.net/eastst louis/intro.html If you go to the main page and tour Washington Blvd. and Downtown (STL), do in keep in mind that the tours are a couple of years old. Those areas aren't quite as abandoned anymore. | ||
Leannam1989 Member Username: Leannam1989 Post Number: 9 Registered: 06-2008 |
It's strange in St. Louis lately. Murders are up, but property and violent crime (except murders) are down in the city and up every where else. They had the "Call to Oneness" in North St. Louis a few weeks ago and the same people are supposed to be organizing teams of young African-American men to visit depressed neighborhoods and talk to kids about pregnancy, violence, drugs, school, etc. I hope it works. But I'm glad somebody is doing something. It doesn't help for people to sit around talking about it. Talking about it doesn't make it go away. Apparently people have begun stealing air conditioners (they have copper coils in them). | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 674 Registered: 10-2006 |
quote: In other words the poorer black folks are being pushed out along with their restaurants. Nice. In order to keep with the thread, I say Youngstown. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 7096 Registered: 10-2003 |
Although it is 1/3 the size and population, Cincinnati reminds me of Detroit a little. It has a thriving downtown, but poverty stricken areas around it. It sits on a large river. It is old, and has interesting architecture. It has its share of race problems. It has a council that is elected at-large. Like Detroit, one looks around and sees massive potential not being realized. Also, like Detroit, they started digging a Subway system before the depression, but it was never completed, and is now used as conduits for various infrastructure lines. | ||
Pcasey Member Username: Pcasey Post Number: 26 Registered: 06-2008 |
um, eh...never mind. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 1162 Registered: 01-2006 |
Having spent tons of time in Philadelphia, it is the only city in the country that makes me feel like I am still home in Detroit. It is a much more complete city with a much stronger core, but it stuggles from the same issues of public perception on city/suburb issues that we do here. Philadelphia is the only city I would consider leaving Detroit for. | ||
Onthe405 Member Username: Onthe405 Post Number: 55 Registered: 11-2007 |
jjba, is the intent of your post sarcasm? Ethnically & economically, Portland (and all of OR for that matter) & Detroit are not even close: 78% White 7% Black 6% Asian 7% Latino It has to be one of the most lily-white & white collar large metro areas in the country. In terms of quality of life, their "growth restrictions" have an upside, but it's not all sunshine & roses. Major companies & growth companies are more hesitant to move there than some other areas (i.e. NC, AZ, UT, etc) because there is little affordable housing for their employees. Ultimately, supply & demand determine real estate prices. The building restrictions have driven housing prices to the point where the gap between wages and housing is one of the highest in the nation. They are doing some positive things to control sprawl. In terms of development, a downtown highrise is much more likely to be approved than another housing tract. When residents along the expanding suburban US 26 corridor became exasperated with the gridlock, the state offered to release funds to expand the MAX light rail line to parallel the freeway, rather than widen the freeway. | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 675 Registered: 10-2006 |
I didn't know the Dexter bus ran all the way out to Portland, Oregon. The things you learn on this forum. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1743 Registered: 11-2003 |
Not on the same scale but Flint has many similarities to Detroits decline. | ||
Flyingj Member Username: Flyingj Post Number: 210 Registered: 08-2006 |
Jjaba is joshin' NO WAY does "Bridge City" aka "Seattle Jr" compare. Houston, maybe But I second "St Louis" in a big way...it's smaller but seems Detroitish, maybe the river helps-wouldn't even be obvious about EAST St Louis. I've stayed w/friends in the "Dogtown" area(think of the novel/film "White Palace") & it vibes Corktown/Downriver in a strong way, too | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3188 Registered: 04-2006 |
I think Philly and Chicago are great comparisons to Detroit. They were all population centers at similar moments in history. They went through similar periods of decline. They had similar demographics. The only difference is that Philly to an extent, and Chicago to a great extent, did a much better job of repairing the core city after the nationwide urban decay epidemic of the 1980s. If you look at places like Chicago, NYC, Philly then it's pretty easy to see where Detroit went wrong. | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 676 Registered: 10-2006 |
quote: Houston has great infrastructure. Light rail, busses that run on time, a great HOV lane system on the major highways, toll roads, clean and numerous parks, to mention a few. Public transportation used to keep the city segregated, but since the rail was put in, and the bus system was revamped that has pretty much become a non-issue. For the most part, the economy is booming in Houston. Back in the 80's I would have agreed with you, but even with the Enron debacle, Houston has remained a city on the upswing. Despite its urban sprawl, the city proper has gained population and historical areas (The Heights, Montrose, River Oaks, Rice Village) have remained strong. I think the few forumers who live there would agree. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 848 Registered: 02-2007 |
Portland has the Quimby's, Detroit has -what- the Kilpatricks? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4507 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think Detroit compares very favorably to both Cleveland and Philadelphia. Most of Philadelphia is pretty frightening (at least the parts I've seen), with similar problems. The city is bolstered, however, by several prominent universities (Penn, Drexel, Temple, among others). The other plus Philly has is its extensive rail system. The SEPTA regional rail has allowed people to easily commute into Center City, without turning half of it into surface parking lots. As such, Center City remains eminently walkable and urban--which is what a lot of young professionals seek. Cleveland, in my opinion, is nearly identical to Detroit in every respect, although hasn't been decimated as badly since it is about half the size. | ||
Njmikey Member Username: Njmikey Post Number: 63 Registered: 04-2005 |
NEWARK NJ | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2343 Registered: 09-2007 |
Warren, MI.  It's a little white version of Detroit. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 1163 Registered: 01-2006 |
Philadelphia was just listed as the number one urban center for young professional. The companies, city, and residential groups all worked together to target this group, knowing it was the most important for the redevelopment of the urban core. It is in my opinion the best city in our country in terms of its appeal to all age and race demographics. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2006 |
Philly?? Are you for real?? Have you ever seen North, West or Southwest Philly? They are some of the worst ghettos in America. I would argue "all age and race demographics" do not agree with your analysis, because Philly's population continues to decline, with no end in sight. | ||
Dkhbike Member Username: Dkhbike Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2007 |
Detroit, St Louis, S Chicago/Gary, etc. are full of poor, uneducated, unemployable people because there are no jobs. There are no jobs because those places are full of poor, uneducated, unemployable people. Repeat. Stir as necessary. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2344 Registered: 09-2007 |
Crawford, yeah, and so does Detroit's population. Also, Philadelphia may have some of the most run down ghettos, but at least they kept their stock of buildings along with it's density. Finally, they didn't let plants grow on their skyscrapers (let along allow them to be demolished) and they're experiencing a skyscraper boom as I type. Detroit hasn't seen one since hte 70s. |
