 
Ladia
Member
Username: Ladia
Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 8:27 am: |    |
Detroit should have invested in a mass transit system, with the price of gas continuously increasing, it would have been nice if Detroit has a subway system,and other forms of mass trasnportation.I hear people riding bikes,scooters, to get around. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 7371
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 9:15 am: | |
Yes Ladia,
The rising cost of gas is causing patrons to ride more SMART and D-DOT buses. You can see the overcrowding of people during peak hours. So far private companies are proposing a light rail transit along Woodward Ave but its still in the drawing board. |
Living_in_the_d
Member
Username: Living_in_the_d
Post Number: 230
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 9:28 am: | |
Yeah, That would be D.D.O.T. that is going to institute light rail from downtown to 8 mile, and as for the buses seeing more use, "Long Live D.D.O.T.". |
Ladia
Member
Username: Ladia
Post Number: 19
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 2:45 pm: | |
The bus system is the only mass transit system for michigan. In detroit the buses are notoriously unreliable.they don't run 24 hours and they run very slow,so people still need their cars.i think that detroit and michigan would benefit tremendously from one,especially now since gas is so high.it would also help out with parking,if people were riding subways or something,we wouldn't have to worry about parking at crowded events. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1303
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 3:23 pm: | |
The buses run 24 hours on many DDOT routes (eight, nowadays), and a few SMART routes run 21 hours a day. Rail is certainly something we need, but in the meantime the buses are what we have.
The problem with the bus systems here is they are financially starved. The buses run on diesel, approaching $5 a gallon, and the funding is no more than it's ever been even though more people are using the systems. So with no more money, more customers, and much more expensive fuel, it's not possible for them to do more than they're doing. |
Living_in_the_d
Member
Username: Living_in_the_d
Post Number: 231
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 3:55 pm: | |
Yeah, Well put Professor S., But the time is coming that funding will take precedence on our Mass Transit and all will be well with world. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1304
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 4:09 pm: | |
That's easy, living; instead of waiting for Lansing to do something, we DYers could just put together a petition, get it signed by enough people and put it on the damn ballot. Let's say amend the const to allow the voters in any county to vote a supplemental 3/4 cent sales tax for transit improvements, renewable every five years.
That's just one suggestion. Any others? |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 125
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 4:10 pm: | |
Maybe DDOT and SMART should invest in the trolleybus system where buses are run by electricity from two overhead wires. This means they're always in place and probably more likely to be on time. I hear its popular in Europe, but Boston, Philadelphia, SanFran, and Seattle have it too. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2341
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 4:18 pm: | |
Why don't they just put in streetcars, which run better in all weather, accommodate more passengers, and can provide a foundation for an expanded streetcar system? |
Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa
Post Number: 1087
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 4:36 pm: | |
Vancouver also provides an excellent example of a system that uses electric buses.
The advantage of electric buses is that they do not pollute at the source, are quiet, and provide better acceleration leading to a more comfortable ride experience (unless, of course, the road is cracked and damaged...).
In the future it would be wonderful to see Detroit (Metro Detroit) with a streetcar system (trams) complemented by electric "bus rapid transit" in those corridors that cannot justify streetcars. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2342
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 4:47 pm: | |
The advantage of streetcars is that they do not pollute at the source, are quiet, and provide better acceleration leading to a more comfortable ride experience (even if the road is cracked and damaged...). |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 102
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 4:48 pm: | |
Ahhh, what would a day be without a DetroitYES Railophile Orgyfest?!
(Please don't take my sarcasm too hard, guys. We know you want to rip out all the roads and highways and ban all those evil cars, trucks, and buses, and replace them with RAILS, the Salvation of the City! I promise, this will be the last time I open a thread with "mass transit" in the title.) |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2343
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 4:52 pm: | |
Haha. Good eye, Retroit! When you mention mass transit in other cities, people have lots of ideas: Buses, streetcars, commuter rail, electric buses, even more far-out ideas like monorails and PRT. Here, people seem to focus on the one mode that moves them. I know I'm guilty as hell of that, but I'm a streetcar booster because of the density of development it engenders. Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled bus-appreciation thread.  |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 850
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 5:05 pm: | |
Here we go again... if I had a dollar in the years on this forum for every mass transit thread, I could build my own damn system.
Anyway, as much as current politics are a pain, I was encouraged when I got CC Kilpatricks' newsletter about securing $100m in funding.
I think an all-Detroit solution will work, for now. Sure, it's not the end-all-be-all, but obviously co-operation is not going to happen and I'm glad the city is stepping out to get it done on this one; I think the rest of the areas will follow suit. Not perfect, but it will work for now. |
Living_in_the_d
Member
Username: Living_in_the_d
Post Number: 232
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 6:07 pm: | |
Yeah, Well put D.V., and Well said. Detroit Rules! |
Evelyn
Member
Username: Evelyn
Post Number: 258
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 6:38 pm: | |
I’m assuming it’d be silly to point out that many large cities have both buses AND a light rail system?
In the meantime, there are basic things that could be done to improve buses in the area. Bus lanes on major roads, for one. Better marked bus stops would be another. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2192
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 6:48 pm: | |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Chicago is also largely car-cultured and bus dependent as well.
The only areas (if I recall) that have extensive transit (subway? and el-train) is the loop region, including the rail lines from downtown to the airports. |
Ray
Member
Username: Ray
Post Number: 1131
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 7:27 pm: | |
I guess you could argue it both ways but I would say Chicago has quite a lot of train service.
Interestingly, Chicago is GM's largest metro market.
Here gas is at $4 and headed much higher and SE Michigan is standing around with its dick in its hand and no mass transit 50 years after destroying the system it had.
I think we're finally going to get one as gas approaches $7 or $10 per gallon, but it will take a decade and in the meantime the people of the region will waste their lives away for half a generation sitting on hot, slow moving, crowded busses. |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 126
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 9:24 pm: | |
On the contrary, drise, the el goes well into the South Side, goes north to Evanston on the Purple Line, and goes into some Western suburbs like Oak Park and Cicero on the Green and has something called the "Skokie Swift" (Yellow Line) which begins at the northernmost Red line stop (Howard) and takes you straight to Skokie. Chicagoans rely heavily on their El system. |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 869
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 9:58 pm: | |
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but Chicago is also largely car-cultured and bus dependent as well."
Actually that statement is not totally false. There are areas of Chicago with amazing transit service. However the % of people who use transit in Chicago is actually pretty low.
The Metropolitan percentage is very low at 11% of commuter trips being taken by transit. That rises to around 20% in the City of Chicago.
But those stats are pretty low for such a large city. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 531
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 12:57 am: | |
On the other hand, how many people in Chicago don't need to commute because they live downtown or in areas where the commute is walk, not a car, bus or train ride? |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6866
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 1:33 am: | |
OK... I have to ask the question... where is Livernois_yard? Haven't heard a peep out of him in a few weeks? He usually comes into these transportation threads as a "dream crusher" and naysayer...
Wonder if he got the boot for disrespecting others? |
Townonenorth
Member
Username: Townonenorth
Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 7:37 am: | |
Having been in Washington DC a few times, I left there very impressed with their public transportation system. It's really good, once you fight the homeless off. And buying an all day ticket is helpful. Once your'e done with it, you can always give it to the guy that needs "subway fare" to get home. The look on this guy's face was priceless...
But I digress.
Public transportation is always good, if it is conveniently located to where you want to go. More often, than not, it isn't, at least here. I've seen other cities promote development along their transit routes, I'd expect the same to happen here, and also a premium on housing within the same area. Transit oriented development.
For me though, I'd have to wonder what is the cost for electric buses to operate? The kind with the wire and the bus attached to it? It was obviously efficient enough to use for the first half of the 20th century. I'd think that the costs would be cheaper than building light rail all over the city. |
Mwilbert
Member
Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 237
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 10:54 am: | |
It is cheaper to build but probably costs more to operate per passenger served, because you can't have as many passengers per driver. However, it can be somewhat better on busy streets because the buses can swerve somewhat, which the streetcars can't, and it doesn't leave tracks in the middle of the road which are somewhat dangerous and which drivers don't like. On the other hand, the swerving means that the pantograph arms are more likely to come loose than on a streetcar--I've seen this happen many times with trackless trolleys, and almost never with a light-rail car.
The other thing is that you may be able to run at shorter intervals than with light rail (for the same money) because you can afford more buses than streetcars, but once you start filling up those buses you'll wish you had light rail. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1305
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:19 am: | |
Townonenorth wrote: "I've seen other cities promote development along their transit routes, I'd expect the same to happen here, and also a premium on housing within the same area. Transit oriented development."
Town, other cities have successfully promoted development mainly along fixed-guideway transit routes, meaning light rail or subways, because the tracks represent permanent infrastructure and provide confidence that the transit route will exist for a long time.
Almost nobody does major developments along bus lines, because it's too easy to move or discontinue a bus line; it happens all the time. As a Kenosha politician said, "developers don't write checks for buses". There is no perceived permanence to a bus route, especially when both DDOT and SMART discontinue and change routes on an alarmingly regular basis. |
Mwilbert
Member
Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 238
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 12:37 pm: | |
This is kind of silly though--there is no likelihood that there won't be bus service down Woodward or Gratiot for instance. Any route that makes sense for fixed transit isn't going to lose its buses.
I actually think the reason is slightly different--fixed transit shows in a visible way a new commitment to the area that existing buses can't (since they are already there). |
Townonenorth
Member
Username: Townonenorth
Post Number: 45
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 3:28 pm: | |
Proximity to any public transit will become a factor in where people live. It was years ago. My neighbor lives where he does due to the bus line along 8 Mile, to Woodward. He made a decision 50+ years ago to ride versus drive. Of course, he doesn't ride the bus now.
I'd see light rail being available on the Woodward, Gratiot, Grand River (insert your favorite here) plus possibly 8 Mile to connect to ALL light rail, and to pacify Oakland and Macomb. Real estate is the prime consideration for the fixed tracks, and possibly stations/platforms. Electric feeder busses to the major lines. Only problem is, $$$ and commitment. By the time we get this done, electric vehicles will be mainstream. |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 128
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 2:07 am: | |
I went on two Chicago buses today...as I am in Chicago...nice, everyone takes 'em, I hope maybe when I get back to Detroit in a couple of days I'll take a SMART to see what it is like. |
Jb3
Member
Username: Jb3
Post Number: 298
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 2:03 am: | |
My question is...
What the hell are the burbs waiting for?
Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham, Pontiac and even Troy would benefit the most from a rail car system at this point. Up Woodward and over to Livernois on Nine mile.
Why are they all holding their breath waiting to see what Detroit does? Where the hell is the American sense of competition? To be the first and the best to get something innovative done? Are we that subservient to the car? Not in Ferndale their not, not in Berkley and especially not in Birmingham. Is it simply that a bunch of pansies are in office? what is it? Fear? Fear of what? I can speculate, but i'm at a total loss.
Why do the simplest decisions have to be the hardest to make? Just do what's right and don't f..n apologize for it. |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 131
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 2:10 am: | |
I totally agree, Jb3, you said it right. I can't believe Oakland, Macomb, and suburban Wayne haven't started a project to build mass transit for themselves. The suburbs have the time, money, and resources to do so. We should start to pressure them to do so. Luckily I have ways to get to the mayor of RO through a friend, so maybe I can ask him the next time I ever see him. |