Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott
Post Number: 6 Registered: 05-2008
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 12:34 pm: | |
I'm trying to do a little research on The Arsenal of Democracy but I'm not having much luck. I know about the Willow Run B-24 plant, but that's near Ypsilanti. GMC was making the "Duck" amphibious vehicles but that was over by Pontiac. So far all I've found was Ford making Jeeps from the Willys-Overland designs in Dearborn I assume that must be the River Rouge complex. I know there's got to be more. Can anyone help me out? Any of the old buildings still exist. What else did Detroit's contribute to World War II? |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2510 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 12:35 pm: | |
I belieev that old arsenal in Warren was where some of the tanks were built. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/detroit.htm (Message edited by DetroitRise on June 19, 2008) |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2527 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 12:38 pm: | |
i'm trying to write a paper for skool can anybody help me so i dont hvae to reed a booc? Seriously, though, read this. There should be a copy in a local library: Detroit Goes to War: American Auto Industry in World War II by V.Dennis Wrynn |
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker
Post Number: 2028 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 12:43 pm: | |
There's a lot of info about this in the Old Car Factories thread in the HOF section. The problem is that it is scattered through the 25+ pages of it. Good hunting. |
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott
Post Number: 7 Registered: 05-2008
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 12:44 pm: | |
Uh.....no Just a history buff who travels to Detroit quite a bit. I'm a factory worker and I really enjoy industrial history and studying the second World War. Thanks for the heads up on the book though. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2528 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 12:48 pm: | |
OK, just kidding around. I get a little frustrated with today's whiny "I have to read a book?" students. :P Yeah, the book is fantastic, filled with posters and ads, and not focusing solely on Detroit but covering the Indiana companies too, like Willys, Studebaker, etc. Worth buying in hardcover if you're a real buff. |
Karl_jr Member Username: Karl_jr
Post Number: 303 Registered: 06-2007
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 12:49 pm: | |
Urban Drew was a contribution to the War Effort: http://aviationartstore.com/ur ban_drew_2.htm |
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott
Post Number: 8 Registered: 05-2008
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 12:58 pm: | |
Completely understandable Detroitnerd. Here's the deal, I used to have some friends that lived in Lafyette Towers and they used to take me all over the city pointing out things of interest. They've both moved away but I still make the trip to Detroit once or twice a month to take in a Tigers game or just explore. Now I'm the one who shows friends or co-workers around and I like to have the most information possible. Plus, like I said its something I'm really interested in. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2529 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 1:12 pm: | |
Great to hear it, BC. Welcome to the forum. |
Mikie Member Username: Mikie
Post Number: 171 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 1:14 pm: | |
Here a link to the book titled "The Arsenal of Democracy". I heard the author speak at the Detroit Historical Museum last year, there's some great pictures and some little know facts. http://www.amazon.com/Detroits -Wartime-Industry-Democracy-Mi chigan/dp/0738551643/ref=sr_1_ 2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12138950 46&sr=1-2 |
56packman Member Username: 56packman
Post Number: 2327 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 1:24 pm: | |
Detroitnerd--If U dont reed a booc howe can U git anyware in skool? I learnt to spel bi readn boocs and writn paperz that th teacherz gradded. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2531 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 1:29 pm: | |
And your point is ... ? |
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott
Post Number: 9 Registered: 05-2008
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 1:29 pm: | |
Thanks Mikie, that was the first thing that popped up when I Googled "Arsenal of Democracy" In fact I think I saw that book in that little Detroit store in the Guardian Building last time I was in there. I live close to Saginaw and there's a GM plant downtown that everyone refers to as "The machine gun plant" because that's what they retooled to make. I'm just wondering if there are any factories, or smaller suppliers like that still standing in Detroit that contributed to the war effort? If not, where were they located and what did they produce? |
Mikie Member Username: Mikie
Post Number: 172 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 1:52 pm: | |
When I went to hear the author he did address your question and said that many of the old buildings still exist and some have been converted, however I forgot the specific locations. I remember that he said that he got a lot of his information from the Detroit Public Library. You may get the answer to your questions there. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4492 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 2:27 pm: | |
Burroughs in Plymouth made Norden bombsights. Here's some of what Cadillac did, though the Clark Street plant is gone now. Time magazine has their archive online and it's free of charge - here's one article from 1942 that tells some of what Detroit's contributions were. It wasn't just that the plants were here but the engineering and production knowledge were, too. Any wartime articles probably won't identify the specific plants but it's neat to read news of the day. A lot of libraries have free access to the NY Times historical archives, too. I found one 1930s article there that showed how Detroit grew with the auto industry. |
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott
Post Number: 10 Registered: 05-2008
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 3:23 pm: | |
Thanks Lilpup, that's what I'm talking about! |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 8211 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 3:54 pm: | |
Great article there Lilpup. That Cadillac stuff is amazing. |
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm
Post Number: 1702 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 7:09 pm: | |
My dad built tank motors at Continental (?) Motors. I think it was on French Rd or Grinnell near City Airport. |
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 762 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 11:15 pm: | |
Grandpa Kleist was the budget director for GM during WWII. He saw the Hindenburg airship in NJ on an airplane a few minutes before it blew-up. G-Grandfather Bornman's printing company made ration stamps. But you can't ask them any questions. One died in '68 and the other in '57. |
7051 Member Username: 7051
Post Number: 114 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 11:34 pm: | |
Since almost all US industry was converted to military production from 1942 to 1945, I would logically assume that every factory and machine shop in Detroit produced something war related. http://eh.net/encyclopedia/art icle/tassava.WWII |
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott
Post Number: 11 Registered: 05-2008
| Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 11:47 pm: | |
Great stuff guys, keep it coming. |
Plymouthres Member Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 599 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 10:46 am: | |
I may be able to assist you with your search for data on "The Arsenal of Democracy". Our group, the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition, has quite a bit of data that we have collected in regard to this very subject. Fort Wayne, as you are probably already aware of, was the reason that that phrase was coined, and I can show you exact proof of that statement. We have information, also, on the various buildings and warehouses that were located throughout the city and at Fort Wayne proper that may assist you as well. It is said that Fort Wayne handled over 8,500,000 parts throughout the war, making it the largest parts depot in the world, and coining the phrase "The Arsenal of Democracy". I would also presume that the DPL or the Burton would be able to assist ou as well. Let me know if I can be of any more assistance. I hope this has helped! |
Mikem Member Username: Mikem
Post Number: 3644 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 11:17 am: | |
http://www.heritageresearch.co m/ourlibrary/databases/wwii/au thorized/michigan.htm |
Frankg Member Username: Frankg
Post Number: 327 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 11:33 am: | |
This is a photo of my grandpa helping the war effort in WWII. He is working at Carboloy, and is in his early 40's at the time of the photo. My uncle says he is sure this photo was taken during the war because of the button on his chest. He enlarged that section of the photo and I don't remember the details but he said it had to do with the war. My Grandpa used to have a WWII pineapple grenade (without the explosives) that us kids used to play with when we'd visit (under close supervision, of course!). Apparently they made them at Carboloy or parts of them or something, and he took one home in his lunch box. Yeah, his grenade had most of the guts, too - when we'd pull the pin and let go of it the handle would fly off and the plunger would plunge.
|
Grosseile Member Username: Grosseile
Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 1:49 pm: | |
Small boatyards and shipyards up and down the Detroit River were critical in the construction of coastal, ocean going patrol craft, and mine sweepers for the Navy, Coast Guard, and allied navies. The following website details all of the Navy and Marine Corps activities in Michigan: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwa r/USN/ref/USN-Act/MI.html In addition, the bigger shipyards like Great Lakes Engineering (they built the Edmond Fitzgerald) built a large number of lake freighters and ice breakers to move iron ore and other raw materials from Lake Superior down to the lower Great Lakes to make steel and other products. The port of Detroit was extremely busy as a shipping point, with soldiers guarding the docks, the same with the freight yards. Selfridge AFB and the old Naval Air Station Grosse Ile trained U.S. and allied pilots. The Detroit area truly was the arsenal of democracy not only for the U.S., but for the allies. |
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott
Post Number: 12 Registered: 05-2008
| Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 3:58 pm: | |
You guys rule. I'm not familiar with Carboloy, anyone care to get me up to speed? DeFoe shipyard was in my hometown and they did the same thing, i.e. small costal craft as well as others. Thanks for the history lesson guys, I really appreciate it. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4553 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 8:07 am: | |
Does anybody know if any Ford facility ever made munitions or weaponry? Given Ford's pacifism I wonder if he made that a condition (he originally refused to flip the plants until he was threatened with their nationalization). |
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 769 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 9:57 am: | |
The bombers from the Willow Run bomber plant dropped lollipops and silk stockings all over Germany. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4556 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 10:03 am: | |
The bombers themselves are merely transportation. Olds, on the other hand, made shells and other ammunition. |
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 2064 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 2:07 pm: | |
I work in a machine shop now, that still uses Broaching and Grinding machines labeled Detroit Ordinance District and Defense Production Co. 64 years old and they still work everyday. And my mom was a "Rosie the Riveter" while my dad was a B-24 waist gunner out of Leece, Italy. |
Little_buddy Member Username: Little_buddy
Post Number: 93 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 3:15 pm: | |
My dad said that they tested tanks in a field by the Ford-Wyoming Drive-in when he was a kid during the war. |
Plymouthres Member Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 614 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 3:41 pm: | |
Lilpup- i sit on an advisory committee with a fellow named Bob Krepke, who is the chief historian for the Ford Motor Company. I will put the munitions question to him when I see him next and see what his answer is. Every single machine shop and manufacturing facility in the US was converted to the war effort, with THOUSANDS of small shops in Detroit doing their share. That, coupled with Fort Wayne being the largest parts distribution center in the world at the time, earned the city the name "The Arsenal of Democracy". Some 8,500,000 parts were warehoused and distributed from not only Fort Wayne, but many buildings and shops downtown that provided the coordination necessary to run our war machine. |
Birwood Member Username: Birwood
Post Number: 107 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 5:57 pm: | |
Ford Motor Co built the CG-4 Waco Glider at a facility at what is now Rotunda and Greenfield. They had USN had a Motor Mechanic school for small boat engines at the Ford Rouge Complex also they built engines for the Sherman Tanks there as well The 5 story warehouse on Warren Ave, just west of Schaefer, formerly JL Hudson warehouse, was a Army Air Corp storage facility and the large lumber yard nextdoor to it built packing crates for the B-24 Bomber Engines and for the Waco Gliders. The Budd Wheel Company made 60mm Mortar shell casings...my father worked their prior to entering the army in 1942 |
Jgavrile Member Username: Jgavrile
Post Number: 150 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 8:11 pm: | |
Man, we got to hope we never have to need all that industry in Detroit again. It just don't exist anymore. All that expertise and talent and little shops that knew how to make this and that and everything needed ,that was special, is all gone. We had it all once, now its gone |
Lpg Member Username: Lpg
Post Number: 29 Registered: 02-2008
| Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 8:17 pm: | |
The old Majestic Machine Tool (since torn down) on Shaefer near Dix in Melvindale had many machines that had War Department tags on them and they were using them into the late 70's. My mom worked at Lincoln Park Industries (since torn down after a fire) during the war as a gauge inspector. She remembered shipping to General Electric Carboloy. I remember delivering to a GE Carboloy on 8 mile in the late 70's. Dad was with the 5th Army Air Force in the SW Pacific. |
Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy
Post Number: 62 Registered: 01-2008
| Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 10:50 pm: | |
Slap the Japs With Your Metal Scraps! Hemp For Victory! Hemp For Defense! |
Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy
Post Number: 63 Registered: 01-2008
| Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 11:02 pm: | |
Seriously, Michigan Agriculture was also geared up for the war effort.Hemp was actually grown for the war effort near the Ann Arbor and Saline areas of Michigan. Even as late as the 1960's errant offspring of this agricultural enterprise could be found growing wild in the ditches of the above mentioned areas. Hence the term "Ditch weed". "Keep 'em Flyin'" |
Kennyd Member Username: Kennyd
Post Number: 22 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 1:29 am: | |
Of the great info gleaned from this forum, some of my favorite had to do with Detroit's, and specifically Chrysler's, role in supplying nickel-plated gaseous diffusers for the Manhattan Project down in Oak Ridge, TN. The diffusers were used to separate the high-grade uranium used for America's ultimate (nuke) arsenal and were made at Chrysler's Lynch Rd. Plant. They used so much nickel the Gov't resorted to using silver in our country's five cent coins in 1943. The 2 year, top secret project was administered from the upper floors of a War Bond office at 1525 Woodward. |
Richie Member Username: Richie
Post Number: 12 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 12:51 pm: | |
There is a fantastic book that came out about ten years ago called "When Detroit went to War" It is a fabulous book, which shows magazine ads the auto industry produced during this time, most are reprinted in glorious color. It was not just the auto companies themselves that but the suppliers to the industry who also made the switch to war production and they too are covered here although to a lesser degree. The artwork as is typical of advertisments from the era are stunning. I do not know if the book is still available and if not how hard it is to find but few are the books out there cronicling the home front during the war years. |
393bird Member Username: 393bird
Post Number: 27 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 5:19 pm: | |
During WWll my Dad worked as a Machinist at a factory on Burt Rd just north of Plymouth Rd. It was called Goddards or Goddard & Goddard. I looked at the area using Google Earth, and a large building is there now, but no idea if it is still a factory. They made all kinds of stuff for the War. |
Davemarc Member Username: Davemarc
Post Number: 56 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 8:30 pm: | |
My grandfather worked at budd on gratiot and conner post ww2.He said they converted the plant to make wheels for tanks,half tracs and others. |
Zephyrmec Member Username: Zephyrmec
Post Number: 57 Registered: 01-2008
| Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 11:06 am: | |
Packard built Rolls Royce Merlin aircraft engines and engines for PT boats. Packard was the only company in the US that was able to hold tight enough tolerances to build the Merlins. |
Jman Member Username: Jman
Post Number: 228 Registered: 10-2006
| Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 11:24 am: | |
It's a common misconception that the Merlin was used in PT boats. In fact it was the Liberty V-12 also made by Packard. |
Zephyrmec Member Username: Zephyrmec
Post Number: 58 Registered: 01-2008
| Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 2:00 pm: | |
Correct Jman, no Merlins in PT boats. (Liberty, Continental, and possibly Allisons were used) Hudson built lots of engines for Higgins boats and various stationary applications such as pumps, generators, etc. Even the Crosley "Cobra" was used for portable power units due to their size, reliability and light weight. Nearly every manufacturing facility in the US was pumping out equipment for US and our allies at an amazing rate. |
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus
Post Number: 316 Registered: 07-2005
| Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 2:48 pm: | |
During World War II the Guardian Building housed the Army's Command Center for coordinating ordinance production. http://info.detnews.com/redesi gn/history/story/historytempla te.cfm?id=131&CFID=9462803&CFT OKEN=63148332 |
Detroitderek Member Username: Detroitderek
Post Number: 61 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 12:55 pm: | |
They also tested Tanks out at the Packard testing grounds in the back testing course ( that's now a condo complex ) out at Van Dyke and 23 mile rd. The old Tank plant has been taken over by 3 steel companies ( Noble Steel, US Manufacturing, and I forget the third one ). The historic plaque is still there on the entrance to Tank Avenue off of Van Dyke. |
Goat Member Username: Goat
Post Number: 10191 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 2:26 pm: | |
Don't forget the most critical component of any war...PEOPLE! |