  Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4981 Registered: 02-2005 |
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20080615/NEWS04/ 806150575/1006/NEWS&GID=pz4cO9 7pseI7aoJIge9Y+UgvlJ3W2ChWKxnh imQBHt0%3D -St. John Hospital may have a Hampton Inn built on its campus on the Detroit/Grosse Pointe Woods border. -More interestingly, an available lot facing Notre Dame St. north of Kercheval could become the site of a 5-story boutique hotel (complete with top-floor restaurant overlooking the skyline/water). The former will be great for business travelers and visitors to St. John. It makes good sense. It appears it will probably be built on GP Woods rather than Detroit land, though. The latter is another in a series of planned taller developments in downtown GP. The infill is a great thing, as is the prospect of bringing more outsiders to the city, and fostering more foot traffic. The hotel is small, but it may compete with similarly-priced rooms at the downtown Detroit hotels, especially since it is so close to downtown. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2377 Registered: 09-2007 |
Hmm, why can't Hampton have its hotel built on the Detroit side of the border? Anyway, this is great news in terms of eastside development. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 882 Registered: 11-2003 |
Probably because the taxes for employees and the business are lower and services way better on the GP side, DR. Frankly, if you can serve the same area with lower costs of operation and better service, you gotta do what you gotta do. To most people, a GP address is way better to market than a Detroit one. There's needed to be a couple places like that near GP for awhile. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4983 Registered: 02-2005 |
It's not possible to put it on the Detroit side of St. John's campus, I believe. All the surface parking is technically GPW, and the actual hospital building is in Detroit, unless I am misinformed. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 1324 Registered: 10-2003 |
Van Elslander Cancer Center is in GPW I believe | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 159 Registered: 01-2008 |
Kingsville street is the divide line , west side Detroit, eastside is GPW. It deadends at St. John's property about mid point. The Grosse Pointes could really use a few nice hotels. The only thing in the area is the Parkcrest Motel on Harper. Nice but no Cigar. Having worked in the Village over the past several years, I know how much out of town visitors come to the area. Building one or two small boutique hotels would enhance the eastside. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1409 Registered: 07-2007 |
The hotel on Notre Dame is a done deal. Not technically but it will happen in lieu of the old folks homes. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1299 Registered: 11-2006 |
What is on the Notre Dame spot now? Too bad about the old folks home, though. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1417 Registered: 07-2007 |
Where the old folks home was going to be on Notre Dame, Behind CVS int the back public lots. I'm sure the neighbors will love it  | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7009 Registered: 08-2004 |
Mackinaw is correct. There is no longer any room to build a hotel on the Detroit side of the St. John campus. The new Van Elslander Pavilion is something like 80% in Detroit and 20% in Grosse Pointe Woods. The Val Elslander Cancer Center is located across the driveway that separates Detroit from GPW (virtually where Kingsville would be if it had been extended thru the area) and is entirely in GPW. I think a better site for a boutique hotel (and 1st level shopping) would be the empty Grosse Pointe Farms location kitty-corner to Pointe Plaza at Mack/Moross. Currently Grosse Pointe Farms is extending the lease to the last remaining store on that nearly empty super site (Krogers) on a monthly basis. But, since St. John doesn't control that GPF parcel, it is doubtful that it would go there. A more logical site on the St. John campus for a hotel would likely be the space directly on Mack formerly occupied by the Woods Theatre in GPW (the Fur store on Mack would have to go). Note: the Detroit, Grosse Pointe Farms and Grosse Pointe Woods border all come together on Mack in front of the parking at Borders Book Store (in the Pointe Plaza shopping center portion of the St. John medical campus)... which also is the eastern most point of Detroit. (Message edited by Gistok on June 16, 2008) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7010 Registered: 08-2004 |
One other thing about St. John building a hotel on or near their campus... with St. John buying up hospitals in Macomb, Oakland and St. Clair counties, much of their more specialized patient care is done at the main hospital.When my mother was hospitalized at St. John 2 years ago, the lady in the next bed was from Port Huron, and was sent down to St. John (for heart surgery) from a Port Huron affiliate. So many patients who now stay at St. John are from farther away, and the need is now greater for lodging their family nearby. | ||
Detroitking Member Username: Detroitking Post Number: 14 Registered: 06-2008 |
What hospital's did St. John's buy in Macomb, Oakland and St. Clair Counties? (Message edited by detroitking on June 16, 2008) | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 514 Registered: 10-2005 |
quote: Mack and Moross would be better suited for a Holiday inn express or something along those lines. A boutique hotel like the City Flats is supposed to be a little more 'high-end'. It would be hard to command the high-end label located across from a coney, a gas station, and adjacent to a jo anne fabrics. The Village is a perfect location and I'm looking forward to eating at the roof top restaurant. (Message edited by higgs1634 on June 16, 2008) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4985 Registered: 02-2005 |
Lefty2...the CVS parking lot is on Saint Claire St. Was that a factual error in the newspaper? I assumed that it wasn't an error and they were using the west half of the middle block of the Village, north of Kercheval, facing the east side of Notre Dame. That's why it said "The proposed five-story hotel in Grosse Pointe would be on the Notre Dame side of a city-owned parking lot, near a proposed site for condos and retail space," because straddling St. Clair on the other side of the same lot will be a garage, retail, and condos. It would still be logical to see it behind CVS, and an error wouldn't surprise me especially since the Freep still believes that this is in Macomb County (that's the section they put it in). Gistok-- a family member who works there at the main SJH brought up the aspect of many of her co-workers who come from as far as northern St. Clair County (idiotic), and in snowstorms and other bad weather they look for lodging near work rather than drive home. This could suit them. (But getting a home nearby with the current low prices might be better...) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4986 Registered: 02-2005 |
Re: the Village hotel, the City Manager told me that the key step is an ongoing market feasibility study for the hotel to try to gauge the right amount of rooms and room rates. I assume it also has to be approved by city council, and he referred me to them to write in support. He said that the nearby mixed use development on Saint Claire St., with designs approved last summer, is still in the works but not moving along fast because of the current market. Now we just need to find out what the deal with the lot behind CVS is. | ||
Pgn421 Member Username: Pgn421 Post Number: 626 Registered: 02-2005 |
i dont mean to get off the subject.What is the name of the development,where the old trailer was, at the foot of Alter rd? | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6680 Registered: 11-2003 |
Grosse Pointe should build better than a Hampton Inn, a low-budget chain, better suited to a freeway exit in Troy or Madison Hts. Tell us you are getting at Sheraton, Ritz Carlton, Hilton, Westin, Wyndom, Renaissance, or Four Seasons for crissakes. We are talking Grosse Pointe, not East Pointe! Hampton Inn is where visiting kids soccer teams live 6 to a room and party all night. Is that what you want for your wedding party? Grosse Pointe, step up a few notches. jjaba. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2389 Registered: 09-2007 |
Jjaba, Sheraton & Hilton (and even Wyndham) is about as upscale as a Howard Johnson. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 992 Registered: 11-2006 |
another piece of great Urbanize intuition | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4987 Registered: 02-2005 |
Hilarious, Jjaba. Hampton isn't the finest name, but it fits that locale fine. There won't be many wedding receptions on the St. John campus ;) But maybe at the boutique hotel if it gets built. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7013 Registered: 08-2004 |
Higgs, So the Mack/Moross site has a gas station, JoAnn Fabrics and a National Coney Island near it? The other site has an ACO Hardware and a CVS as neighbors. The Mack/Moross corner is arguably the most important piece of undeveloped land remaining in ALL the Grosse Pointes, sitting at the most important gateway to the Pointes. Plus the that Mack/Moross parcel is kitty-corner from the largest (and nicest) retail/commercial site on the east side... St. John Medical Center, the 3 office towers and Pointe Plaza indoor shopping center. Plus there's a heavy concentration of restaurants and retail within a few blocks of that site. Detroitrise, have you ever even been in a Hilton Hotel? Hilton (which owns the nice Hilton Garden Inn downtown) is a very nice hotel chain... check out some of their hotels worldwide... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H ilton_Hotels Certain puts Howard Johnsons to shame... Detroitking... St. John now manages Providence Hospital in Southfield (more like a merger of Catholic Hospitals), they purchase South Macomb Hospital in Warren, Harrison Community Hospital in Harrison Township, as well as other smaller hospitals in Port Huron and points in between. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2394 Registered: 09-2007 |
Gistok, the point was (since you obviously missed it), you can't compare a Hilton with a Ritz Carlton. It's like trying to put Pizza Hut and Buddy's on the same level. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7014 Registered: 08-2004 |
Detroitrise... nice try, but your logic still doesn't fly. And you wonder why some forumers poke fun at you? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4988 Registered: 02-2005 |
It is the most important development parcel, after the Village surface lots, because what goes in on those development sites will completely change the complexion of the downtown. Mack/Moross does not compare to the Village, even if it has one of the nicer shopping centers in the area. The Village isn't exactly the most aesthetically perfect downtown, but it's much more pleasant place to be than Mack-Moross (which is just a major urban/suburban hybrid crossroad). The Village is within walking distance of historic areas and the waterfront. However, what happens on that existing lot is key in that it could make Mack-Moross a much nicer place to be. I doubt there will be a market for a Mack-Moross hotel after these first two go it. I think retail and residential (a mid-rise condo building would be branching out for GPF but would be brilliant for that site) are the name of the game for that site. Thinking ahead to the transit era in Detroit, Mack is a major transit connector to midtown and major employers in that area, so higher density along Mack is warranted in that sense, but what the tallest building city council would allow would be is anyone's guess. Indeed, Hilton is decidedly upscale, and priced as such. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2396 Registered: 09-2007 |
"Detroitrise... nice try, but your logic still doesn't fly. And you wonder why some forumers poke fun at you?" Seriously, I really don't care if you guys have enough time in your boring lives to act like children over the internet. I just simply ignore you and go on about my business. As to Hilton being upscale, as soon as I visit a location where I see that it's upscale, then I'll let you know. Apparently if Hilton's upscale, then so is Best Western & Hampton. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 993 Registered: 11-2006 |
it could be argued that many of your ideas and posts are that of a childish mind. Anywho, a Hilton is not on the same level as a Howard Johnson. Ever been to a Hilton, Urbanize? | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 522 Registered: 10-2005 |
quote: Aco and CVS are but two of the businesses in a quaint, walkable, neighborhood environment. Comparing the Mack and Moross intersection with the Village is a bit of a stretch. Between the Village site and Mack/Moross, which would command a higher room rate? quote: I would say the Village has the better concentration and much more conducive to walking about than Mack/Moross. I'm not saying that Mack/ Moross isn't ripe for some development, but it's certainly not right for THIS development. The City Flats aspires to be THE east side hotel... an eastside version of the Townsend from what I heard on WJR when Paul W was interviewing the developer. dropping it at Mack and Moross would kill the cache it's trying to generate. Detroitrise...i stayed here last weekend for a bachelor party... neither it nor the Hilton Chicago (which is about 4 blocks away)can be described as anything other than upscale. http://www1.hilton.com/en_US/h i/hotel/CHIPHHH-The-Palmer-Hou se-Hilton-Illinois/index.do?WT .srch=1 Some people also think the Waldorf is quite nice. that is a Hilton property as well. (Message edited by higgs1634 on June 16, 2008) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4989 Registered: 02-2005 |
Yeah bringing Mack-7 into this is not a worthwhile thing to do because the City of Grosse Pointe, not GPF, is the one with a marketable parcel right now, and they're making their move to bring in an upscale hotel. Let me just add that the City Manager also says that the hotel on that site facing Notre Dame St. will help bring about the mixed-use planned one block over around St. Claire St., because of the retail and parking garage component of the mixed-use development. As for the Mack-Moross area, it looks like GPF won't even get the chance to court a hotel developer for that site anyway, because of the marketshare the one in the Village would absorb, and the fact that St. John is doing their own thing and bringing in Hampton. So even if Mack-Moross was as nice as the Village, it appears that parcel wouldn't have a chance to get a hotel, and the recent news about the 2 new hotels makes no mention of the site anyway. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7016 Registered: 08-2004 |
Since Notre Dame is basically a residential street that just happens to cross thru The Village... I wonder if there's going to be a NIMBY crowd of nearby residents opposed to a hotel in their neighborhood? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4990 Registered: 02-2005 |
Most if not all of the houses along the rest of that block, extending to Waterloo (Vernor) are used as offices now. Across the street is Kroger's parking lot and an elementary school. There aren't too many people who could make a strong argument that this changes their lifestyle too much. A 5-story building to be built directly behind the 2/3-story homes on Neff (behind CVS) has already been approved, so I doubt height will be an issue here, either. |
