 
Mwilbert
Member
Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 304
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 8:53 pm: |    |
"There is no way that group can claim that in Detroit."
Why can't blacks claim that in Detroit? Detroit isn't floating someplace in space, it is embedded in the US. Coleman Young and Kwame Kilpatrick and the buffoons on the City Council didn't just spring into existence in a vacuum--they are reactions to people's perceptions of how society is and has been structured, not necessarily to the advantage of minorities in general, and of blacks in particular. Widespread distrust of public institutions didn't arise in a vacuum either.
Yes, blacks have been running the city for a long time. Yes, the people running the city have done an unusually poor job of it. But Detroit's officials weren't exactly dealt a great hand either--as far as I can see, GM, Ford, Chrysler, Burroughs, NBD, J.L. Hudson, etc, were pretty much all run by white folk as they either sold out or spiraled into the ground. Nor did Detroiters invent the anti-poverty programs you don't seem to like.
I find Americans in general have a rather unappealing sense of entitlement, but I'm not at all sure that is at the root of the problems that Detroit has. At root I believe a big chunk of the problems are economic, but if you just want to look at peoples' attitudes, my opinion is that the main issue is not entitlement, it is resignation. I believe that large numbers of people, and not just black people, believe that they will not be able to succeed even if they try hard, so they don't. Blacks may think that they can't succeed because of racism; lower-class whites may think it is because of affirmative action. They both may think that they are disadvantaged by poor schools and poor connections and by living in an economically declining area. It almost doesn't matter whether it is actually true, because you can't win if you don't play, but you can lose by default.
I think that what people need is reason to believe that they and their children have the ability to live better lives through their actions. I think that is why immigrants tend to be successful even though they often come to the US with severe disadvantages. They have already taken one action which has improved their lives, and they and their friends serve as examples to their children. People in poor communities of native-born Americans often lack those examples. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2635
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 9:13 pm: | |
Roadmaster49, that sounds pretty racist to me.
Are you generalizing all blacks as such? |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2636
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 9:14 pm: | |
Jjaba, if it makes the situation any better, Detroit wasn't the only city to lose 1 milllion people (Chicago also lost nearly 1 million people). |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 226
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 10:43 pm: | |
----"I'm not a racist, I am prejudiced."
Uh, did you read your own quote?
----"Blacks always say they never get a fair deal. They are always blaming white oppression on their socioeconomic standing."
While you may not think you're a racist, that was definitely a racist comment. I didn't realize that all blacks had a collective conscience...
----"There is no way that group can claim that in Detroit. Whether Detroit rises or falls as a greater metropolitan area is squarely on their backs, right?"
How can you say that? Detroit had over 1 million people and hundreds of thousands of jobs up and leave in a matter of a few decades. No city would be fine after losing a huge chunk of its jobs and wealth. You can't blame the people who were left when the dust settled.
----"And let's look at their track record, Detroit is an urban blighted area with high crime, poor education of it's citizenry and a low quality of public services."
Wow! I didn't realize that Palmer Woods, Sherwood Forest, University District, Green Acres, Rosedale Park, North Rosedale, Grandmont, Indian Village, Boston-Edison, Arden Park, East English Village, etc. were "blighted". BTW, just so you know Detroit is home to one of the largest black middle-class populations in the nation. In fact, Palmer Woods is the wealthiest majority-black neighborhood in the nation. So, I'm not sure who's track record you might be following when you say "they". |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 6072
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 12:13 am: | |
Roadmaster, that you reduced everything to generalizations and race shows that you really don't have a good handle on the decline of Detroit. The problems run much deeper and much wider than race both at the initial start of the decline and today. Detroit's fall did not happen in a vacuum, nore was it unique to Detroit, and more than anything else the fall came from the fact that Detroit was the largest American city to ever tie its fate to one industry.
You didn't just show your ignorance, but you also showed you're a bigot. You are right about one thing, you're a know-nothing outsider to be sure, and a bigot to boot.
(Message edited by lmichigan on June 30, 2008) |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 203
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 2:58 am: | |
As I see it down here it's really no ones fault the D is in the shape it is now. You take away employment, throw in a high cost of living and taxes people simply can't keep their homes and go where it's cheaper. Detroit is going to have to do one of two things. Improve the employment/salary picture or reduce it's taxes and cost of living to adjust to a service economy. |
Detblue
Member
Username: Detblue
Post Number: 53
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 2:57 pm: | |
"Thanks all for the added comment. Here's the deal, from an outsider who has studied sociology and current events.
Blacks always say they never get a fair deal. They are always blaming white oppression on their socioeconomic standing.
There is no way that group can claim that in Detroit. Whether Detroit rises or falls as a greater metropolitan area is squarely on their backs, right?
And let's look at their track record, Detroit is an urban blighted area with high crime, poor education of it's citizenry and a low quality of public services.
The current mayor continues the tone of entitlement by throwing parties at the mayor residence and having an affair with an aide.
I lived in Houston, Texas and the black population was maybe 20-25%. I liked Houston because of it's multi ethnicity. I'm not a racist, I am prejudiced. I just don't know when there will be a great black leader that will preach self reliance, hard work, etc. You know what? Even with that the entitlement mentality will take generations to reverse. Thanks LBJ and liberal Democrats. War On Poverty? By giving handouts"
After barley making sense of that post, there was clearly no need to respond |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6827
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 3:03 pm: | |
Detroitrise, misery loves company.
Yes, Chicago's Southside and Westside are in miserable shape for the most part.
This is a Detroit site but there are huge swaths of Los Angeles, Oakland, Philadelphia, New York City, and many more that are in very rough shape.
jjaba. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 7446
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 3:54 pm: | |
Jjaba,
Detroit is one big black ghetto.
However for Chicago, Los Angeles and other U.S. major cities their ghettos and barrios are like institutionalized jailhouses. It's amazing that fewer white folks who still play a dominant role in those American cities have these plans of demarcation, restrictive covenants, income requirements, racial steering, red lining, block busting and gentrification ready and set in certain urban neighborhoods.
Detroit have these bad requirements, but white folks who once lived those neighborhoods abuse that power and simply gave up. White folks sold their Detroit homes mostly to blacks and move away to suburbantopia. This city had lost its chance to be an ethnically diversed hip cool city. The suburbs is where all the ethnic neighborhoods are at. In Detroit only a small hanful of ethnic oasis are left: Mexicantown, Chaldeantown, Greektown, Corktown, Yemenese Village, White Bottom at Oakwood Hieghts and Bengla Town at Conant Gardens.
(Message edited by danny on June 30, 2008)
(Message edited by danny on June 30, 2008) |
Bragaboutme
Member
Username: Bragaboutme
Post Number: 308
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 6:34 pm: | |
Slow down with the comments Detblue, let me refresh your memory as to why their was a Civil Rights movement.
The "Blacks" as you call them of these urban areas in the 40's and 50's weren't able to enjoy the spoils of moving to the suburbs because of the constant discrimination pressed upon them by shady lending practices that are still being used today. These "Blacks" don't blame this "White Oppressor" that you speak of, they legitimately complain about the injustices that African Americans have faced throughout their existence in America. That system produced these results today, coupled with the fact that the downturn of the Auto-Industry has led to those who were poor before, are getting poorer by the minute. So it is not a feeling of entitlement, it is the feeling of not being able to keep what we established. The feeling that everything that was torn down (places like Black Bottom) will never be able to be replaced. This City has it's abandoned spots and just recently the ever increasing (in the last five years) plaguing rise of foreclosed homes. This City has been dumped on by more than just this ghost of a "White suppressor", it has been held back by the constant spending of money for basic needs outside of it's original Community. Though Detroit is changing in areas others can't sustain enough to bring about a significant change. The reciprocation has to be the same for African Americans as it is for "ALL" Americans.
So when you say Detroit does it mean "Black" to you? search Houstons African American history and compare it to Detroits?, are they parallel? I don't think so. |
Bragaboutme
Member
Username: Bragaboutme
Post Number: 309
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 6:38 pm: | |
Sorry Det Blue, I meant that toward RoadMaster49. |
Detroitmaybe
Member
Username: Detroitmaybe
Post Number: 133
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 7:03 pm: | |
There was a study done recently that acknowledged the inaccuracies of Census data called Social Compact. I encourage everyone to review it as it does have some interesting data regarding the actual population rate within the city. I believe it is a www.socialcompact.org |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2645
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 7:13 pm: | |
Thanks Detroitmaybe.
That link really helps a lot.  |
Roadmaster49
Member
Username: Roadmaster49
Post Number: 53
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 8:25 pm: | |
Thanks for all the comments and corrections. It is a complicated issue. I realize my statements are not entirely accurate, and I simply can not convey all my research into urban matters over the past 30 years, in the context of this forum.
My main point was and still is that African Americans represent an unusually large majority in this city. They are in control of the destiny of it. All of us Preservationists combined can't buy enough house or turn the neighborhoods around - to make an impact. It's going to have to come from within.
I'm reading Robert Lacey's book on FORD, specifically chapter 31 on the 67 riots. In the post-war analysis, when everyone said how could this happen? - he states "...and the disillusioning discovery that Detroit's black middle class had no more or less interest in the problems of the ghetto than the middle class of any other colour."
I apologize sincerely for any comments not well received. I do not believe in being quiet for harmony's sake and always welcome criticism of my comments. It's how I learn and evolve.
Believe me, I'm not a racist. I have 21 year old half Black daughter, have dated scores of African American ladies, hispanics and count every race among my friends and co-workers.
I'm just miffed that you have this huge majority in this great city, with every opportunity to change it on your terms, under your vision, and the song remains the same. |
Roadmaster49
Member
Username: Roadmaster49
Post Number: 54
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 8:32 pm: | |
Mwilbert says "I find Americans in general have a rather unappealing sense of entitlement, but I'm not at all sure that is at the root of the problems that Detroit has. At root I believe a big chunk of the problems are economic, but if you just want to look at peoples' attitudes, my opinion is that the main issue is not entitlement, it is resignation. I believe that large numbers of people, and not just black people, believe that they will not be able to succeed even if they try hard, so they don't. Blacks may think that they can't succeed because of racism; lower-class whites may think it is because of affirmative action. They both may think that they are disadvantaged by poor schools and poor connections and by living in an economically declining area. It almost doesn't matter whether it is actually true, because you can't win if you don't play, but you can lose by default.
I think that what people need is reason to believe that they and their children have the ability to live better lives through their actions. I think that is why immigrants tend to be successful even though they often come to the US with severe disadvantages. They have already taken one action which has improved their lives, and they and their friends serve as examples to their children. People in poor communities of native-born Americans often lack those examples."
Very intelligent analysis. I don't have the answer except great leadership, and time. The lack of motivation irks me. I don't care how long anybody lives, it's a short time on this earth, so why spend it depressed, doing drugs, living to a lower level? |
Roadmaster49
Member
Username: Roadmaster49
Post Number: 55
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 8:39 pm: | |
Detroitrise: "Roadmaster49, that sounds pretty racist to me.
Are you generalizing all blacks as such?"
No, I am being specific about entitlement class citizens of all races, but in Detroit by census analysis - it would be mostly blacks.
It is definitely prejudiced, but racist? I wish only the best for all races. It would be a vanilla world otherwise. |
Roadmaster49
Member
Username: Roadmaster49
Post Number: 56
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 8:44 pm: | |
Bragaboutme says: "Slow down with the comments "Roadmaster49", let me refresh your memory as to why their was a Civil Rights movement.
The "Blacks" as you call them of these urban areas in the 40's and 50's weren't able to enjoy the spoils of moving to the suburbs because of the constant discrimination pressed upon them by shady lending practices that are still being used today. These "Blacks" don't blame this "White Oppressor" that you speak of, they legitimately complain about the injustices that African Americans have faced throughout their existence in America. That system produced these results today, coupled with the fact that the downturn of the Auto-Industry has led to those who were poor before, are getting poorer by the minute. So it is not a feeling of entitlement, it is the feeling of not being able to keep what we established. The feeling that everything that was torn down (places like Black Bottom) will never be able to be replaced. This City has it's abandoned spots and just recently the ever increasing (in the last five years) plaguing rise of foreclosed homes. This City has been dumped on by more than just this ghost of a "White suppressor", it has been held back by the constant spending of money for basic needs outside of it's original Community. Though Detroit is changing in areas others can't sustain enough to bring about a significant change. The reciprocation has to be the same for African Americans as it is for "ALL" Americans.
So when you say Detroit does it mean "Black" to you? search Houstons African American history and compare it to Detroits?, are they parallel? I don't think so."
THANKS. I APOLOGIZE. I OVER-REACTED. I really appreciate more then you guys (and gals) know to hear cogent criticism of my remarks. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2646
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 9:24 pm: | |
Quiet as it's kept, Chicago is still in a steady decline like Detroit.
The only difference between the 2 cities are a vibrant core & mass transit. |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 6074
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 9:57 pm: | |
True, but don't forget immigration. Immigration and immigration, alone, is keeping many of Chicago's emptying neighborhoods from "going Detroit." Replacement is a huge factor. |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 227
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 12:34 am: | |
Roadmaster49, how exactly do you think a city like Detroit would be able to solve its social problems any more than any other city? Especially a Detroit that doesn't have the taxable wealth to maintain decent services.
Parts of Detroit are blighted, yes, but much of that blight can be attributed to the flight of the middle class to the suburbs. The neighborhoods look that way not because of something people did, but because of something people did not do. |
Roadmaster49
Member
Username: Roadmaster49
Post Number: 57
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 11:50 am: | |
Social problems - should not be any related to ethnic issues, as African Americans are a huge majority. Social problems, that's kind of broad, you would have to be more specific. My mantra is always the same though, personal accountability, leadership, and time. It won't happen overnight, I think it will take 30-40 years, as that represents 2-3 generations.
Your comments: "Parts of Detroit are blighted, yes, but much of that blight can be attributed to the flight of the middle class to the suburbs. The neighborhoods look that way not because of something people did, but because of something people did not do."
Actually it's a mix of both. Older homes and neighborhoods require maintenance but some of the nicest areas to live in the country - are older diverse neighborhoods.
The white flight which was accelerated after 1967 left a vacuum, as others have noted. The African Americans tha largely filled that vacuum had a mix of issues to deal with. Poverty, entitlements, etc and a loss of family values exhibited, for instance, by the black middle class in Palmer Woods.
It doesn't take long to tear down what took decades to build up. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3254
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 12:01 pm: | |
quote:Quiet as it's kept, Chicago is still in a steady decline like Detroit.
The only difference between the 2 cities are a vibrant core & mass transit.
And an economy.
For whatever reason, Chicago (both city and metro) has been much more attractive to immigrants and domestic migrants. That helped a lot to keep the city population from going into a free fall like Detroit's did. It also helped to keep Chicagoland's population gradually increasing... unlike metro Detroit's which has been relatively stagnant for decades. |
Bragaboutme
Member
Username: Bragaboutme
Post Number: 311
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 1:00 pm: | |
Actually the decline was more from 1950-1960, it went from 1.8 to 1.6. It was actually a smaller decline 1.6 to 1.5 from 1960-1970. From 1970-1980 was the biggest jump 1.5 to 1.2. So you have 300,000 people moving from parts of the city leaving abandonment in there wake. This jump I believe was because of Detroit electing Colman Young, lets be honest about what has happened in Detroit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't about the breakdown of the black culture, or lowering of family values it is pure numbers not a class of people.
Detroit sprung up over night compare to the more established Cities we compare ourselves to. Keep in mind we were only on the top ten list the beginning of 1910 then jumped from #9 to #4
in 1920 only thirty years later to start falling back down in terms of numbers. It seems to me these dramatic fluctuations attribute to the fact the word was spread that there were jobs galore in the North. When the rush came our region couldn't handle the influx of people and started to realize the City couldn't keep up with this rush of people, and keep selling cars at the rate they were when the Automobile was first mass produced. This system broke down plain and simple. You can blame it on "Race", but I believe otherwise. This "White Flight" wasn't that at all. The Auto makers duped this region and the nation into thinking it needed to sprawl in order to sell more cars. They built massive freeway systems to prove it. They shut down street cars so this region would have to buy cars. I think "Race" is just a front, the bigger picture that is playing itself out. We have seen more and more layoffs, that started in the African American community, and more are yet to come. Wake up Metro Detroit this population decline has been effecting African Americans a long time, and it will effect the whole region sooner than you think. |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 265
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 1:48 pm: | |
Roadmaster49, I agree with the main points of your argument, including your first so-called "racist" comments. I agree that black Detroiters need to stop labeling as "racist" every white person (or black person for that matter) that tries to give them advice. What I believe you were trying to say is what Bill Cosby and a few other courageous black people are trying to say, and that is (to paraphrase): "Now that we (black people) have the reigns of power, it is no longer an option for us to continue to blame white people for our problems and expect anything to be done about it. We must take care of OUR communities and elect competent leaders to run OUR cities and prove to the white people that we are capable of being a part of what is, largely, THEIR world."
Okay, now I'm a racist, right? |
Richard_bak
Member
Username: Richard_bak
Post Number: 38
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 2:26 pm: | |
Hi, just wanted to briefly interrupt Roadmaster49's rant...
>>>>Detroit is an urban blighted area with high crime, poor education of it's citizenry<<<<
Shouldn't it be "poor education of ITS citizenry, not "it's citizenry"? Perhaps some highly educated poster in the Houston area can clarify that for us. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3257
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 2:53 pm: | |
quote:This jump I believe was because of Detroit electing Colman Young, lets be honest about what has happened in Detroit.
If enough white residents were living in the city to vote against Coleman Young then he wouldn't have been elected. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 1473
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 3:36 pm: | |
What is almost funny but really sad is that most people in city government don't want to discuss or face facts about the real population loss. It affects every budget in every department, resource usage and manpower deployment on all levels.
When I go out I rarely hear people talking in public about the negative things going on. It's more like a personal issue discussed between people you know.
"Its" would be more grammatically correct being a possessive pronoun and neuter.
"It's", is a contraction of, and can be replaced with, "it is or it has"
But communication is about understanding others so we all get the meaning and who cares about the minutia. Were not taking an English course. |
Bragaboutme
Member
Username: Bragaboutme
Post Number: 312
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 4:54 pm: | |
Ok Retroit, I don't see where you agree with Roadmasters comments, but here's something to think about and get back to me on.
1.what reign of power do you and Bill Cosby see that I don't see, are there phantom fortune 500 companies that African American are head of, or majority employed?
2.Name a Billionare besides Oprah, or Bob johnson?
I'll even bring it closer to home.
Out of the riches people in Michigan history, and even detroits' history how many were or are African American?
3.In what company are there a majority of Afican-American in higher positions other than ones that either cater to entertainment (B.E.T), or sports.
I could go all day, but you get the point.
If you don't see what I'm trying to say, then I will try to clarify it even more.
1.In a City that is majority black how much of this City do African American own? you can start Downtown and go from there.
There is no handout, We pay for everything and the money will never be returned to our community. The clothes we wear, the cars we drive, the food we eat, ect., ect. all come from a companies that are owned by other than African Americans.
For every person who thinks the majority of Afican-Amercans in detroit have, or are getting a fair shake think again.
What's funny is people don't see the bigger picture they only see what's in front of them.
To all of the closed minded people, just because you see many African Americans on T.V. being portrayed as being successful doesn't mean all are or have had the opportunity to become. Bill Cosby made his millions only after to come back to the community to stomp on it.
Redetroit your not a racist, you just don't understand the difference. Let me break it down to you on what your agreeing with.
Roadmasters words, "Blacks always say they never get a fair deal. They are always blaming white oppression on their socioeconomic standing".
so·ci·o·ec·o·nom·ic (ss--k-nmk, -k-, -sh-)
adj.
Of or involving both social and economic factors.
To Agree with that statement is to say that African-Americans have never been Oppressed, en-slaved, separated, struggled, denied basic rights, and we'd be here all day....But the point is I would agree with anyone who is right, and respect someones opinion if it is based off of fact. Either you didn't read what was said in his post or are just trying to start an irresponsible argument based off a rant. Either way I would strongly suggest your re-evaluate your position. |
Mwilbert
Member
Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 309
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 5:31 pm: | |
"If enough white residents were living in the city to vote against Coleman Young then he wouldn't have been elected."
True enough, but that doesn't mean that once CAY was elected all the whites couldn't have decided to leave the next day. I'm sure some number of people left just because he was elected, and I'm sure some more left after he started doing that thing he did so badly. It certainly could account for a more rapid departure during those years.
However, if you remember, in that decade Michigan was losing a huge number of people ("the Black Tag People") as high oil prices and rising imports caused jobs to be unavailable. I think a lot of the population was lost because of that, not just because of the mayor. |
Deteamster
Member
Username: Deteamster
Post Number: 121
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 5:56 pm: | |
"If enough white residents were living in the city to vote against Coleman Young then he wouldn't have been elected."
Whites had a slight majority in the city when Young was elected. Ten percent of white Detroiters voted for Young. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2649
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 6:00 pm: | |
Well, I do know for sure that in 1974, the White/Black population was roughly 50/50, down from roughly 80/20 prior to the 1967 riots.
After the election of Coleman Young (over a 15 year period), Detroit lost 500,000 people, which was 33% of the population.
Considering that the white population now is only 17%, it would make sense that nearly all the people who left the city from 1975 - 1990 were white.
This was because they no longer felt welcome into the city because of the racial divide that was created.
If the situation was solely based off rising oil prices, then we all could worked together for that fabulous subway system while Detroit was still the center of commerce. Then we probably would still have a vibrant downtown and less sprawl.
(Message edited by DetroitRise on July 01, 2008) |
Roadmaster49
Member
Username: Roadmaster49
Post Number: 58
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 1:09 am: | |
Bragaboutme,
African Americans did not get a fair shake in the past in Detroit, but the flight to the suburbs, and the numbers, which this post is ultimately about, mean that now, and in the past several years, blacks have had the numbers.
I have no problem with that. But if you have the numbers, you should have the power. The power to boycott, to run the political machine, to do good things like create solutions to economic issues, to bring in the brightest young African American minds to reform government, the infrastructure, and come up with solutions for companies looking to relocate.
A Microsoft, a Yahoo, or any other progressive company is looking for the best deal, period. That's why so many companies go to Mexico. Cheap land and cheap labor. |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 274
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 2:13 pm: | |
Bragaboutme, thanks for the clarification and here's my re-evaluation: Although black Detroiters do not share equally in the reigns of ECONOMIC power, they do, almost exclusively, hold the reigns of POLITICAL power. Therefore, they should use the power that they have (political) to bring about a share in the power that they don't (economic).
To do this requires electing leaders who realize that their success is not in how many votes they get from poor (predominantly black) Detroiters, but how much investment dollars they get from rich (predominantly white) suburbanites and the larger (predominantly white) business world.
In other words, if Group A has all the "economic well-being" and Group B doesn't, it should be Group B's priority to convince Group A that they are worthy (not as persons, but as a society) of investment by Group A.
And as to the slavery issue, my great-great-grandmother may have had the job of wiping the ass of the Queen Victoria 150 years ago, but I'm not going to use that as an excuse for why I can't achieve whatever I set my mind to. |
Roadmaster49
Member
Username: Roadmaster49
Post Number: 59
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 6:10 pm: | |
Exactly. It's an overused cliche but Black leadership-if there is any of value in Detroit (and I have to believe there is)- needs to think outside the box, to the best interests of it's citizens, middle class and poor.
What does Detroit have to offer and how do you get to that point. It's flowchart economics. It takes years but has to start somewhere. You might say, Detroit has plenty of a willing and able workforce but they come in low on the education and skill levels. Set up honest to good training, with no scams. Tier up the training so that those who don't want to go to college don't have to - they still have life skills, yet encourage college training.
This is what irks me. I would think this opportunity to make history by KKK and his leutinents would be much more satisfying then the visceral, temporary gorging of the city coffers and power structure, which at best can only last until you get kicked out.
Reform is an easy word for politicians to use, especially when millions of dollars are at stake. But it's a hearts and minds battle, not one of the pocketbook. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 1479
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 8:10 pm: | |
South LA surrounding areas would be way worse than Detroit if it wasn't for the hundreds of thousands of Central Americans moving in who replaced the people who moved out. The houses and many areas look nice but at night there are many gangs out there.
Detroit can come back huge if new industry / business is created. We have everything here except many entrepreneurs / investors to take the risk and plunge. Government handouts won't cut it. |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 6086
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 10:09 pm: | |
Detroitrise,
Detroit's population is not even 17% white, now. It was 12% in 2000 (still estimated at 12% as of the 2006 estimate), and a significant portion of that is hispanic and Arabs. |
|
New threads cannot be started on this page. The threads above are previous posts made to this thread.