Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » Cobo Expansion to be announced within 30 days « Previous Next »
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 1205
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

according to Freep.com



I'll believe it when I see it.
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1707
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In slightly related news, Suzuki pulled out of the 09 Autoshow today.
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Drankin21
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Username: Drankin21

Post Number: 257
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only people that still believe Detroit will continue to be the center of the Automotive world decades from now are in Detroit. I can see a lot more companies using the Cobo excuse to jump ship from the NAIAS as Porsche did this year. At least Porsche had the balls to come out and say that they were leaving since they don't sell many cars in Detroit.
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Rbdetsport
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Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 501
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you have a link chris?
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 1016
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Front page of Detnews.com
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 7064
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Drankin21, first you complain that some German magazine bashed Detroit, and now you complement Porsche for having the balls to leave...

What gives?
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 1206
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, I'm on my phone and copy/pasting url links can be a pain in the ass. Both newspaper sites have articles up though.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 3008
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20080626/M ETRO/806260455
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Gthomas
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Username: Gthomas

Post Number: 134
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why dont the city tear down COBO HALL and build a modern larger convention center/hotel on westside Woodward and I-75 just north of HockeyTown. The Village of Woodward probably cancel their plans to build mid-size Condominium Loft across from Woodward Place? That would be a great place for it and it will liven up Woodward on the end, bringing in more foot traffic. Hopefully force the development of the Leland hotel and the Cass Corridor Area.
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Gthomas
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Username: Gthomas

Post Number: 135
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Open the riverfront and connect Jefferson west to downtown. Make it more predestrian friendly and and more green space.....
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Gotdetroit
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Username: Gotdetroit

Post Number: 185
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

80,000 feet? That's it? Wow, talk about a nothing expansion. When you consider McCormick Place in Chicago is 2.7 million square feet, and Cobo is 700,000, what difference is 80,000 going to make?

This is SMALL apples. Basically, a non-announcement.

(Message edited by gotdetroit on June 26, 2008)
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 7065
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You have to remember that Chicago's McCormick Place is 3 separate buildings connected by skyways.

That's why I said they should just build another convention level on top of the existing Cobo. Then you could double the space, without the land constraints. (Of course I realize that this would require a lot of engineering).
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 1163
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gthomas, we can't even get the region to agree on the less expensive renovation options, but you think building new is the way to go?
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Gthomas
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Username: Gthomas

Post Number: 137
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right lol....Detroit need to step up or they will be left behind. I HAVE REPEATEDLY TOLD EVERYONE THAT DISAGREE WITH ME THAT YOU HAVE TO BUILD BIGGER. THE CITY LEADERS AND SOME CITIZEN WILL LEARN THAT ITS NOT WHAT THEY WANT ITS WHAT INVESTORS WANT. We need to revamp ALL city leaders that arent doing there job to make Detroit a world-class city and not trying to keep us in bad proverty due to there BAD services. The future of Detroit is based off the young and talented people but with poor schools systems and less things for the young people to stay off the streets.... the state doesn't support us. I'm sick of it....and I'm making a change, im not all about talk
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Gotdetroit
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Username: Gotdetroit

Post Number: 186
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric - Exactly. And that is the problem (for those that are new) the regional in-fighting. Period. This is a no-brainer. And in 3,2,1...some one from outside Detroit/Wayne County is going to be begging the question..."but why should we pay....". Which is a false question at best - when, with the hotel tax option, the majority of the cost would be shouldered by out of state travelers, not tri-county tax payers.
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Bragaboutme
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Username: Bragaboutme

Post Number: 304
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gthomas I whole heartedly agree with post#134, I think it was a big mistake to shut down jefferson. I think the lodge should end at michigan. Cobo should be torn down Jefferson should continue and meet up at Fort street...I could go on, but why? it will never happen. For every solution the powers that be keep presenting more problems. It should be the other way around.
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Gthomas
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Username: Gthomas

Post Number: 140
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They dont understand...now the city do. But the state aint even thinking about us for this project, they can probably care less.
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Dtowncitylover
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Username: Dtowncitylover

Post Number: 200
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Suzuki's spot used than 1% of the total floor space and has already been filled by someone else, there was no economic downfalls from that, but still all manufacturers should be represented.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 930
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Or you could keep Cobo. I would not count on Cobo moving. It is viewed as a anchor attraction in that corner of the CBD. How many reports and news releases bring up the "natural four corner anchors of Downtown"? I really think that anything more added to Northern downtown that would require mass amounts of parking would be a nightmare. These big draws are already close enough to each other to cause problems with traffic. Putting them any closer would also limit the amount of infill small businesses and residences in between them. The layout right now is very good (just my opinion). The gods must not hate Detroit as much as everyone says, because the locations of these five major draws are pretty good, by means of chance. The only large problems are all the empty lots between MGM and Park Avenue, and the look and flow of the area around Joe Louis and Cobo.

I myself, would prefer Cobo stay where it is. That location is perfect for it. It's perfection, however, is not in it's current state, but in what it could, and should become. If the Red Wings move to North Ilitch Land, it would allow for Joe Louis to be demolished. This could obviously be where the exhibition floor is expanded to. The other logical possibility would be to expand to where Cobo Arena currently sits. I also don't know what the green and glass section facing the river is used for. Is it offices or meeting space?

Anyway, I would replace it (or add onto it) with a much taller tower. Either office space, or hotel space. That section of the West Riverwalk is dead, and faces eventually getting around Riverfront Towers. Likewise, a building above the new addition built on the Cobo Arena site would make sense. Again, a hotel would be my first choice. Moving over to the Joe Louis site, I would like to a residential. Honestly, expanding Cobo here with a tower built on top would probably make sense. However, sense we're in Sean's Cobo Dream Land, I would really like to see multiple residential towers built, similar to the Riverfront Towers community.

I'd honestly like it also if the entire area was not so gated. Riverfront Towers is one of the most beautifully landscaped area in the city. It's like being at a tropical resort (during the Summer). Of course, I am not holding my breath on that. Still, it would be a neat addition to that area. Without Joe Louis Arena there anymore, a ton of parking would be freed up. I really am not sure how much parking is used for the Auto Show.

The Cobo roof lot could be used for Cobo, as well as the tower/towers on the Cobo Arena and South office site. The residential towers on the other hand could use the Joe Louis garage. There also is about a half dozen parking garages surrounding Cobo as well. I actually like all the sky walks connecting All the Riverfront Towers complex buildings and garage, as well as Cobo, Joe Louis, the Joe Louis Garage, and the People Mover Station. The affects larger developments would have on the Riverwalk and Congress. I would worry about negative affects it would have on the East Riverwalk are though.

Sorry, I'm getting carried away. It's just interesting to think about. I'm sure Mayor Kilpatrick's plan is much better then anything I could imagine.

PS: My definition of tower is more high rise like. Maybe ten or twenty stories. Maybe even smaller. But... definitely taller than the current structures.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 7332
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Suzuki? Who gives a f#$k?
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 2595
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know what would be great on the Cobo site? A train terminus. Like the depot that used to be behind it, torn down in 1971.
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 1164
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That would be a great place for it and it will liven up Woodward on the end, bringing in more foot traffic. Hopefully force the development of the Leland hotel and the Cass Corridor Area.

Liven up Woodward? It's a convention center which aren't known being great foot traffic generators. As for aiding development yes it would do that. But you seem to have forgotten that Cobo is close to many hotels like the Book-Cadillac, Fort Shelby and Sheraton that've seen major investment in last couple years. You'd moving one the biggest draws the hotel have, that is their proximity to Cobo, further away from them
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Zrx_doug
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Username: Zrx_doug

Post Number: 251
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wonder if Kwame will let Bobby handle the construction? Do ya 'spose the reason for the rush is so he can get his kickbacks before the trial starts?
I'm sorry..this city has WAY better things to spend the money it hasn't got on than useless gestures of expansion..
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 931
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok, you are right. I would have put a second story into all that. However, it's not going to happen with the current possible funds. Eighty thousand is something they can do now. If something can be proven with this (as in the impact it would have), it would warrant everyone looking into further expansion.


Gthomas, we really need to talk more. The current three start-ups I am working on are great, but the idea is to have them all earning enough to get some other larger things going (they themselves took many smaller projects to get going). Among those things is a CBD cafe that sounds extremely similar to some ideas you have mentioned on here. The plan for that one was done awhile ago. Really, all I would need to do is update some of the numbers and similar information. I also have one for a small video arcade. Both would take around $50,000 each to get off the ground.

Or at least that was the number it was a few years ago. That may have changed. However, the next couple years should be a good time to start a business. That is, it's good if you can do something that will do well through the current conditions. Real estate and equipment is a steel.

I have been saving for awhile, and I COULD do it now if I was willing to take out a loan. However I do not really believe in spending money before you have it. I am also lacking in confidence. I could not bring it upon myself to risk other people's money without being extremely confident in the project.

The confidence is rising though. School and some small successes, as well as help from people smarter than me is going a long way.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 7432
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 1:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With Suzuki pulled out of the 09 N.A.I.A.S, our clowning corrupt leaders finally got their attention including L.B. Patterson. That's what happen if you all just talk and bicker about economic development. Is another car company about to pull out of the 09 N.A.I.A.S? Let's hop not.

EXPAND COBO HALL NOW!
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Reddog289
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Username: Reddog289

Post Number: 409
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 1:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Put the new Wings arena at Mich&Trumbell, tear down the air conditioned Cobo Arena, build from there
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1604
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 1:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Drankin21 - "At least Porsche had the balls to come out and say that they were leaving since they don't sell many cars in Detroit."

This is the dumbest excuse I've ever heard of in my life for just about anything...not your quote of course but you get demerits for repeating it like they are hot shit for saying this.

Let me ask you...is the reason oes show in Detroit "to sell cars" here? NO. They come here because the press gathers in one spot. They do it in two other places too...Tokyo and Frankfurt.

PLEASE STOP SAYING THINGS LIKE THIS it's embarrassing for you. It's even more embarrassing for the numbnutz who said it from Porsche.

Ahem...not that that's off my chest. This is a non-story. 80,000 SF? Pft.
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Zrx_doug
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Username: Zrx_doug

Post Number: 252
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 2:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quinn, the customer base is NOT here for Porsche..there are PLENTY of other opportunities for them to show their wares in desirable markets..with just as much press attention (if not more) than the Detroit show garners.
I'm actually FAR more suspicious of the chap from Suzuki who conveniently handed this nugget of krap ("boo-hoo..we're among the smallest automakers in the world, and we have to sit at the kids table, and THAT'S why we're skipping your show") to the Kilpatrick administration at such an opportune time..despite the fact that this is comparable to Bates sitting out a fast-food convention, much ado is made of it to sell the false urgency..
Kwame needs to make big flashy gestures to save face right now, preferably before his hearings start..so ain't it grand that Suzuki dropped this in his lap just now?

HOW are we financing this useless gesture, considering that we're allegedly so damned broke we apparently have to sell off the tunnel to make payroll?
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 13134
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 3:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How much extra engineering would it take for a second floor on the current structure?

It is built to handle the combined weight of vehicles parked side-by-side across it's entire width and length! Surely the weight of show vehicles, displays, and anorexic models couldn't be THAT different...

For something as seldom as the once-a-year auto extravaganza, couldn't they make a decent temporary structure to keep in the heat and keep out the elements?!


Before Chicago finished their expo-center expansion, and while Las Vegas was forging theirs...they all used temporary structures to 'grow' floorspace for the few shows that were larger than the venue. The Consumer Electronics Show and Comdex come to mind...of course Las Vegas has much better weather in January than us (no need to boast Ray1936!).


But those temporary tents they made for the SuperDuperBowl were mighty snug and comfortable...and one of 'em housed ten thousand people, didn't it?!
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Django
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Username: Django

Post Number: 1103
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 4:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gannon, your a goddamn FREAK, How can you house so much info? From one thread to another you roam. lol.

You know I love you man.

But I still want to see this amazing shot you have with a pistol. Youve bragged up quite a storm about how unnerved you are because your such a great shot with a 9mm. Time to put up or shut up with the shootout with Plymouthres. Its gotta happen sometime. Im still hoping its goin down in my hood at Chene. Or we could just do it at the Packard.

If you think your a better shot than res, you etter say so. Hes got the cred, you dont, as far as I know.

Come on, are you really better than res?????

This is my edit.
Sorry for jacking this thread so severley.

(Message edited by django on June 27, 2008)
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 13136
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 4:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm laughing uncontrollably imagining the echoing sounds of rapid-fire gunshots emanating from the depths of the Packard plant, along with the ricochets and eventual screams of pain.

NO, if this shootout happens, it will be in an official range that will at least allow a decent three-shot burst run-out of a fifteen shot clip from the Glock 19 I need to recover from that pesky farnorthwestburb Police Chief.

Man's gotta have his stylized grips, doncha know? The Hogue rubber on the old style still beats the new contoured hard plastic from the factory, as far as I'm concerned...I don't care how much old man Glockenspiel hates any 'improvement' to his designs.


We'll leave it to PlymouthRes to choose the targets, distance, lighting, and increasing distraction level. I trust he'll make it tough enough for me! Of course, now I'll have to wait for the new glasses...thanks to the fellow at our Woodbridge fireworks party who 'chose' to crush my patented DYes identifiers. (sorry, Gnome, you're going to have to find another idiosyncrasy to lampoon!)
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1605
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

zrk - "Quinn, the customer base is NOT here for Porsche.."

READ MY POST! Seriously...you think Porsche goes to Tokyo mainly to sell cars to the customer base there? I want to pull my hair out. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT OF THESE SHOWS.

Nobody gives a rats a@# about the consumer weeks of these events. It's all about press week. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION'S BUYING POWER!
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Zrx_doug
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Username: Zrx_doug

Post Number: 257
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It has to do with everything ELSE about the geographic location, though..you could easily host a show this size in civic centers anywhere in the nation..Detroit, Chicago, New York, LA, Tokyo, etc..they got these shows because A) they had something to do with the industry, or B) they are HUGE cities with the facilities to make the media & car company folks comfy during their visit.
Detroit is clinging to "A" by its fingernails, but it lost "B" three decades ago, if it ever actually had it..
If Detroit did in fact have the media, the accommodations, the attractions, and (probably most importantly) the low labor costs of other cities, do you honestly think ANY car company would miss the show due to "lack of space?"
Hell no..they'd be happy to set up in the parking lot if need be, just to be part of such an event. The reality is that Detroit has passed beyond "has been" in the eyes of the world..bigger convention centers will NOT magically turn a pigs ear into a silk purse, nor will they turn a slum into a vacation destination.
Not saying Detroit's a slum..I like it here. But in the eyes of the rest of the world, we're that dying place that USED to be "the Motor City."


Gannon, what good would it do to build above the existing structure if exhibitors are allegedly leaving because they can't get on the main floor now? Either the show is something that companies are clamoring to get into, regardless of how crummy the spot they get is, or it's something they can brush off as unimportant..the newness & size of the building is only a small portion what determines the attraction of the event to would-be exhibitors.

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