  Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2597 Registered: 09-2007 |
Ok, I love how downtown is improving and everything but it seems like the neighborhoods continue to go downhill along with the services. Ironically, that same downward spiral SPED UP when all the attention shifted towards downtown. Now how can you have an effective city when you ignore the nearly 1 million people already residing here? I've seen more school closing, the worst sanitation service, and more police station closings than ever. That's why the nation continue to call us the armpit of America or the American Iraq. It's nice to have a glossy downtown, but it doesn't mean anything when your neighborhoods aren't complimenting it. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1688 Registered: 04-2006 |
I am frustrated by this as well. You can't have a strong downtown if the neighborhoods (particularly the nearby ones) are in poor shape. Those from outside the City have to drive through them to get to downtown, and those who currently live in those neighborhoods will leave as no one wants to live among garbage and empty homes. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 539 Registered: 10-2005 |
That is a very valid point. I have always thought that the starting point would be to clean up the arteries. And with rail going down the center of most of them, it would be a tremendous improvement. Start with Woodward and continue with the others. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 170 Registered: 01-2007 |
There was a big deal (and write-up in the Sunday paper) about six neighborhoods that were to be targeted for improvement. That was just last year. Has anything progress been made in these neighborhoods or was that just all talk? | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2599 Registered: 09-2007 |
Other than an occasional "walk the beat" cop in EEV, I haven't seen much.  | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 294 Registered: 11-2007 |
I am not an admirer of the current city administration, but I don't think it is unreasonable to concentrate limited resources in areas you are trying to redevelop. And the city also has a strategy currently of concentrating resources not just downtown but in several neighborhoods around the city. With respect to your specific points: The schools are losing students like crazy, which makes sense because overall population is falling and they are pretty bad. If anything, the DPS should already have closed more. I'm not sure how useful police stations are--I'd rather have more police and fewer stations. I don't know if fewer stations are an indicator of anything interesting. I would probably be more interested in knowing how well the stations that exist are working--from what I have heard about the headquarters, I suspect it might not be too well. Sanitation is a clear victim of budget problems, and I have to agree that it has deteriorated. I know the bulk pick-up changes have been a problem for a lot of people. On the other hand, Detroit hasn't exactly been clean for a long time (ever). | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 295 Registered: 11-2007 |
I've seen some tangible neighborhood projects, like the medians on Livernois between 6 and 8 mile. I agree with cleaning up major arteries, but you really need additional functioning businesses to make them look good, and that is hard. I agree that Woodward is the place to start, but even if you decided to do that the chunk that runs through Highland Park would be a problem. Also, I suspect that most people coming into town come on the freeways. I don't have data for that but from what I have seen a lot of suburbanites are somewhat nervous about driving on surface streets in the city. (Message edited by mwilbert on June 26, 2008) | ||
Hockey_player Member Username: Hockey_player Post Number: 428 Registered: 10-2003 |
Quote: "I'm not sure how useful police stations are--I'd rather have more police and fewer stations. I don't know if fewer stations are an indicator of anything interesting." The problem with the districts vs. the precincts is that there are greater distances between them, and thus greater response times to certain parts of the city that once had neighborhood precincts but now must rely on a station sometimes many miles away. Even on the lightest day, response times are longer because some neighborhoods are considerably farther away from a police station than before. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 899 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have seen some private research data, and Mwilbert, you're completely right. I have come to realize that one of the reasons the DEGC attracts and works on bigger businesses is that they're large enough to overcome many negative perceptions of the city. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 867 Registered: 02-2007 |
HP - are you sure that districts vs. precincts is relevant? I'd expect that the number of scout cars and the size of their patrol areas to have a greater influence upon response time than the location of the nearest desk & lock-up. | ||
Davemarc Member Username: Davemarc Post Number: 42 Registered: 06-2008 |
The precincts are a part of the neighborhood.The residents can connect with a neighborhood cop.We used to know all the street people,shop owners and undesireables.I'm not sure how comfortable it makes you feel as a local,to not know the cops are just a couple blocks away.As a cop,it has to be tough knowing that the desk(and backup) is a few extra miles away.Just my 2 cents | ||
Hockey_guy Member Username: Hockey_guy Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2007 |
Detroit has a huge amount of homes crammed together. I think it'll get worse before it gets better. I wish I was alive to see it like this. http://cityguides.msn.com/city life/slideshow.aspx?cp-documen tid=6021655&imageindex=3 | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 899 Registered: 07-2004 |
The neighbourhoods will not revive untill you have a strong downtown and central Woodward corridor that people will want to live close to, etc. As downtown continues to revive, it will spill over into the neighbourhoods like it has in Philly and other cities. In addition, the city does have some programs to help the neighbourhoods out. I think to many of the neighbourhoods are de populated for anyone to see as huge a renaissance take place there as in downtown, etc. The revival will come, but I think the heart needs to be strong first. (Message edited by miketoronto on June 26, 2008) | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 924 Registered: 03-2008 |
Downtown really was the most viable and sensible place to start, and we are seriously not very far from that start. Fixing up downtown did several things. First, it gave many more people a reason to want to live in Detroit. It gave Michigan a urban area (although it still lacks a lot, I agree). Second, it gave people a reason to visit the city. People (believe it or not) are actually enjoying a visit to our CBD again. This was an important step, because it showcases all the changes that happen from that point on. The neighborhoods being fixed first would have meant a lot less people would see those changes on a regular basis. Third, by concentrating on downtown, it would show some commitment by all involved that things are being done. Downtown was a way to consolidate and showcase those... our efforts. It was meant to give at least some pride in Detroit again. This could not happen on anything but a very small scale elsewhere in the city. You may be able to fix a few things, but what needed (and still needs) to be done is/was overwhelming. No one would really notice those small things, especially if it was something that didn't affect them. Finally, revitalizing downtown and nearby areas attracted jobs. Hopefully, with some further effort, that will continue. While maintenance will be needed (as it is everywhere, in every city), eventually downtown's progress will slow. I agree, it is quickly nearing the time that focus needs to SLOWLY shift elsewhere. I always figured that day would be when ALL of the blight and infrastructure was redone in the CBD, and downtown was self reliant. Maybe that is not really it thought. I agree with above ideas of increased attention on major arteries. While Woodward seems like the natural choice to begin, I personally think that Jefferson is a better (and busier) option. Woodward will go good through Midtown, but will get tough North of New Center. Actually, they all will be a huge challenge beyond Grand Boulevard. Detroitrise, you can see that there is clearly more and more focus on these arteries. Not just in basic street scape and attempts to attract new business and residents, but also in general service upgrades. The really sad part is that until some more battles are won on the political and city policies fronts, and until we have more people and resources helping us, this will be a excruciatingly slow process. Also, Detroiters may have to learn to accept help from others outside Detroit. That is, not because we can't do it on our own, but because we want to speed up the process. You mentioned you are in East English Village. I don't know much at all, other than it is far outside of the area the majority of people is working on (I think). As much as I love some of the neighborhoods outside of the Grand Boulevard Loop, I would not personally expect to see much done to them (possibly even less). It kind of goes back to that other thread where someone stated that we need to consolidate resources. The problem is that most of the places that are (I think logically) being focused on, are not the areas where the majority of Detroiters currently live. In those areas it will get much worse before it gets better (in my opinion). This is all just my opinion. It is what I see and hear happening, and it seems to make sense on the surface. Corktown, Lafayette Park/Belle Isle area, Midtown, New Center, Woodbridge, Eastern Market, and both the East and West Riverfronts should continue to see improvements though. | ||
Hockey_player Member Username: Hockey_player Post Number: 429 Registered: 10-2003 |
Craig, What Davemarc said echoes what I hear from longtime residents who lived through not only precincts, but the days where there were neighborhood mini-stations as well. Whether it's merely a comfort factor or reality as seen in response times, people I've talked to (and yes, this is admittedly anecdotal) overwhelmingly seem to think things have gotten worse since the change. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 869 Registered: 02-2007 |
Dave - I hit 8 Mile, so I can't say what the locals are thinking/saying today, but when I lived under the regime of precincts I never saw foot patrolmen in my 'hood, and scout cars on routine patrol were also unknown. I understand the intent behind community policing & accessibility, but based upon my experience I don't see localized precincts as making a meaningful contribution in either manpower or the communities' sense of connection with their police department. Mike - for what it's worth, in the days of Coleman Young we neighborhood dwellers heard that downtown needed to prosper before "we" could get attention. I don't know what gamble would have paid off, but emphasizing CBD has done little/nothing (IMO) to help the 'hoods. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2603 Registered: 09-2007 |
Sean of detroit, I don't live in EEV, but I do know from a reliable source that cops do "walk the beat" in that neighborhood. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 925 Registered: 03-2008 |
Hockey_guy, Thank you for that. That picture is simply amazing. We need a thread with pictures (or picture links) posted in reference to that time period. It really seems like it must have been a different world back then, doesn't it. Of course, the thing to remember, is that it was not... | ||
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy Post Number: 296 Registered: 04-2007 |
One strategy that is working very well, I think, are the CDCs, or Community Development Corporations, that dot the city. City, state, and federal fund are channeled into projects through the CDC. Plus, the CDC is able to seek funds and grants directly. Grandmont Rosedale Development Corp. has gotten a Cool Cities grant, was instrumental in the new streetscape work on Grand River, rehabs houses and demolishes those beyond help, has built new houses near McNichols, coordinates grants to low-income homeowners for repairs, handles the city facade improvement program for businesses in the area, started our successful farmer's market, and on and on. I know that there are several other CDCs in the city, including the effective one in Corktown. | ||
Colgatesmile Member Username: Colgatesmile Post Number: 6 Registered: 06-2008 |
In my neighborhood, there is a large population of homeowners loosing their homes to foreclosure. There recently was a large influx of nice foreclosed homes that were snapped up by realtors and investors- who leave the home in disarray until they find a buyer. It seems the city/county should assist these homeowners in keeping their property. If they loose the property, it will sit and they will not collect taxes anyway, the value of the entire area will go down. However, I admit if my savings account was a little larger I would have grabbed a home or two myself to rent out. I will be able to in a couple years if the market is still the same, I just hope there will still be a few people with jobs left to rent them out. | ||
Davemarc Member Username: Davemarc Post Number: 43 Registered: 06-2008 |
Craig,I'm not saying that its a universal experience,thats how it was when I worked at the 7th pct.When I lived on Mckinney,the only cops I saw where my neighbors!Dave | ||
Macknwarren Member Username: Macknwarren Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2007 |
That 1961 photo posted by Hockey Guy is very interesting, and it would be hard to argue things weren't better in that era (for white Detroiters, anyway). But even in 1961, factories had closed or were preparing to close, blight was spreading, Detroit was beginning to experience a budget crisis and the forces were already in place that have done so much damage to the city. I don't have the figures at hand, but Detroit had tens of thousands more jobs in 1961 than now. For those who have rosy scenarios for Detroit's future, where are all the jobs coming from that are going to make the city a viable place again? | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 900 Registered: 07-2004 |
I don't think that the neighbourhoods should not recieve any attention. But at the same time "downtown" is a special area and needs attention as it holds the key to the city revival. Without a strong central core with jobs, you are not going to revive neighbourhoods. People need a place to work, and a vibrant downtown attracts people to want to live in the city again. It is a spill over effect. Why live in Detroit if your job is in Novi???? Your job is downtown, then Detroit living looks more good. While downtown is being improved, there for sure should be resources for the neighbourhoods. But I would not be yelling that downtown is seeing investment and is being made better. Downtown Detroit even now still has a long way to come and will need more resources and investment. But the revival so far is triggering renewed interested in city living in certain neighbourhoods. So once the spill over starts, many neighbourhoods will revive. But you gotta get the critical mass downtown first, along with improvments to the neighbourhoods. Also this may not sound P.C., but neighbourhood residents have to want to make their area nice. Look at the great work that Det News reporter did in reviving a city park at Van Dyke and McNichols. Neighbourhood residents have to want to cut their laws, keep their homes clean, painted, etc. So it goes both ways. The city needs to step up. But residents also have to step up. And I think there is promise for the neighbourhoods closest to downtown. But the neighbourhoods further out that are suburban and look no different then Warren or Sterling Heights, are going to be a challenge to revive, unless the neighbourhoods close to downtown become so trendy people are pushed to cheaper housing with close proximity to the city centre. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2604 Registered: 09-2007 |
"Also this may not sound P.C., but neighbourhood residents have to want to make their area nice. Look at the great work that Det News reporter did in reviving a city park at Van Dyke and McNichols. Neighbourhood residents have to want to cut their laws, keep their homes clean, painted, etc. So it goes both ways. The city needs to step up. But residents also have to step up." I know many people in Detroit that would love to step up and make their areas nice. However, the issue goes back to the availability of resources, money, and time. Not everyone can take care of the home down the street because the neglectful owner abandoned it. Especially if everyone is barely getting by themselves. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 523 Registered: 02-2007 |
Okay. How do you get the administration to notice that your trying to care? This year our neighborhood is cleaner than ever. The city came through and did a half ass job of cutting a few lots ( if they were cut low enough I could keep up with them). I loaded my truck with some trash that was dumped on a curb and took it to the dump site. I was told I had too much. Tried this before same result. | ||
Colgatesmile Member Username: Colgatesmile Post Number: 8 Registered: 06-2008 |
Okay. How do you get the administration to notice that your trying to care? This year our neighborhood is cleaner than ever. The city came through and did a half ass job of cutting a few lots ( if they were cut low enough I could keep up with them). I loaded my truck with some trash that was dumped on a curb and took it to the dump site. I was told I had too much. Tried this before same result. Try phone calls and letters to (the more the better) 1. 311 2. Ombudsman 3. Mayors Office 4. City Councilman (all 12) I know its a lot of hassle, between the 4 resources usually one of them gets it done. I work for the city and often times things get moved through/corrected a lot faster when it comes from #2, 3, or 4 of the above. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 524 Registered: 02-2007 |
Thanks Colgate and welcome to the forum. I am in constant contact with the council 7 out of 9 by the way do to other things I am trying to do. As a matter of fact was told by brenda Jones that they are planning to close the dump site on Concord. Which is crazy cause it gets a lot of action. I will try 2 of the other three cause 311 is a joke. | ||
Detmi7mile Member Username: Detmi7mile Post Number: 89 Registered: 12-2007 |
well I believe it start with the people as well. You don't know how many times I've seen houses with the grass not cut, house falling down, yet they have satellite dishes and a hummer in the driveway. What good is fixing up the neighborhood if the people don't care? | ||
Detmi7mile Member Username: Detmi7mile Post Number: 90 Registered: 12-2007 |
You know yes many city services are bad (i.e. not cutting all the empty lots in the city), but even if they were good, they can't do everything to make the neighborhoods look nice. It has to be a two way relationship. | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 296 Registered: 11-2007 |
The reason to focus on Woodward is because you can tie downtown to midtown/New Center. Jefferson gets you nothing. I agree that extending development much past New Center is problematic. And one way the city could stretch its resources is to support people doing good things in the neighborhoods. Making it hard for people to remove trash is exactly the opposite of what they should be doing. |
