Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » City Hall to move to old GM Building back in '96? « Previous Next »
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1849
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 1:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was doing a random search online and I came up with this gem. I was in high school when it was in the works, but I never knew that the city was going to move from the CAY building to the old GM building on Grand Blvd.

Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/gmbuilding
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Bragaboutme
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Username: Bragaboutme

Post Number: 358
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great find Vizion, it shows what Archer was trying to do for the city. Most important it shows what type of tactics he used to try to keep G.M. and Ford, at that time two of the largest companies in America, in the City proper. It also told me something I didn't know about Ford having 3,000 workers in the Ren-Cen before G.M. moved, and how they were willing to work together to make the move work. I always had the impression that the Big Three were in stiff competition with each other, and would never be on the same side of town let alone the same building.

Good Read.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1633
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 8:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great Find!

I wouldn't give Archer plaudits though. It didn't happen, did it? Shows what a lame and ineffectual mayor he really was in my view. He regularly sparred, and to no avail, with city council too. He was mayor and couldn't make moving his own administration work.

I find it odd that the NYT would write this as if it happened already.

"They point out that if City Hall had stayed put when G.M. moved downtown, Detroit's commercial and political life would have become concentrated in a few blocks of the downtown area while midtown Detroit, 25 blocks to the north, might have withered."
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 1469
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 8:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This whole plan fell apart because Archer was viewed as a shill for corporate 'outsiders'. IIRC, the Archer Recall effort centered around the belief that Archer was not a friend of Detroiters.

Here is a link on the Archer Recall. Keep in mind it was funded by Don Barden after Archer made sure Barden didn't get his beak into the Casino money. The foot soldiers in the recall were organized by a couple of Kwame Kreitans: Aldoph Mongo and Malhik Shabazz:
http://www.pww.org/past-weeks- 1999/Recall%20of%20Detroit%20m ayor.htm

The political arm of the Shrine of the Black Madonna, the Black Slate, headed by Horace Sheffield served as Archer Recall HQ.

As we know, Kwame's support comes from Horace and Kompany.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P 1-22429145.html

Roll of the Shrine of the Black Madonna

Side note: they collected 127,000 signatures, but most of the signatures were not valid. ie. dead people, folks like John Wayne, Mickey Mouse and other fictional characters all signed the Recall petition.
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 6673
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John Wayne wasn't real?
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 1471
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

His real name was Marion Morrison and he was dead, other than that, you're correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J ohn_Wayne
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 3306
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I wouldn't give Archer plaudits though. It didn't happen, did it? Shows what a lame and ineffectual mayor he really was in my view. He regularly sparred, and to no avail, with city council too. He was mayor and couldn't make moving his own administration work.



He got the State to move in there...
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2693
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People want to call Archer a sell-out for cozying up with corporate America. However, Archer sure looks good now as a mayor who was honest and had integrity when comparing him to the current mayor. All of you Archer-haters remember Archer. Kwame makes Archer look like a saint.

BTW, I hope Archer runs for governor. Just imagine a black governor and a black president. Now that's real change.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1851
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The problem with Dennis Archer was "he wasn't black enough" People were used to Coleman's "Screw you Whitey" logic and actions. So for someone to reach out to the white communities that left, he was looked at by my great fellow residents of Detroit as a sell out and "not black enough".

It's shows our "in tune" us Detroiters are with politics :-D
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1852
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is my idea of chance...white mayor, black gov and black pres and Brenda Lawrence as Oakland Exec :-D I welcome a white mayor in Detroit...I honestly think it's needed. (yes I am black and a resident of Detroit)
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 2863
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So Viziondetroit, you seriously think black people (mexican, asian, native american, etc.) aren't capable of getting the business done in Detroit?

They're people of all races & colors out there who are honest, hard working, and have good PR's. Many of them just choose not to step onto our dirty floor.

(Message edited by DetroitRise on July 18, 2008)
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1853
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure there are.. there are capable people of all races and nationalities. I can't really say I see any Asians, Native Americans, and Hispanics really stepping up to the plate often or even consistently.

I'm open...I just go by what I see. All races have the opportunity to step up in politics in Detroit, but do they?

We had Coleman- He did a lot of good and a lot of damage at the same time.

We had Archer- He wasn't "black enough" and he was a traitor and was selling out to THE MAN blah blah

We have Kwame- No comment.

My point is, it's time to change the face up in Detroit which is my opinion- you don't have to agree.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 917
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NYT is amazing. Always calling them as they see them. I too am a great fan of "Alfred Kahn" - and I also love walking north to the former GM building in "Midtown."

What's a "new center," and who's "Albert?"
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1854
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lol @ Alfred
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 2864
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow Andylinn, so how can they judge Detroit (write about Detroit, etc.) when they don't even know us like that? :-)

Viziondetroit, I agree that it's time to change the face up in Detroit which is my opinion (as in the face of mistrust and inefficiency), but i disagree with I welcome a white mayor in Detroit...I honestly think it's needed.

I welcome anyone who will benefit Detroit, no matter what color their face is painted.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1855
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitrise are you black?
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 2867
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes I am. If you care to know, I am also a resident of Detroit. :-)

(Message edited by DetroitRise on July 18, 2008)
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1856
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

.....ok
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65memories
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Username: 65memories

Post Number: 584
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quinn...you don't like Dennis Archer. You don't like Freman Hendix. Yet, you are a big Kilpatrick supporter. What are you going to do now?
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 1473
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Drise, would you not vote for someone because they were white?
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 2869
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a sack of rocks.

I will vote for anyone who is qualified to run the city of Detroit (whether they're white black, purple, native american, or mexican).

I was getting on Viziondetroit because he made it as if only a white person could save Detroit.

(Message edited by DetroitRise on July 18, 2008)
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 1475
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Think you're being too literal, and rigid.

I didn't take VD's like that, just a little hyperbole to underline the need for wholesale change. Switch to decaf, it might help.
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Sirrealone
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Username: Sirrealone

Post Number: 176
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's funny to read people that rip Archer. He was the most professional mayor we've had in over 30 years. He got a LOT of positive things done. Remember, a lot of the things that Kwame has gotten to cut the ribbons on were actually set into motion by Archer. The tarnish on Archer's legacy is, of course, the riverfront casinos fiasco. That definitely stings. But honestly, if Detroit had someone like Archer come back into office, I think you'd see the following:
1. Integrity to the city of Detroit
2. Public perception outside of the state would increase
3. Businesses, currently avoiding Detroit, would actually give more serious consideration to moving into the city. Right now, why WOULD any business want to come here with the circus that plays itself out daily in the mayor's office and city council chambers?
4. Funds wasted on corruption so family members and friends can have cush jobs and drive expensive cars on the city dime would go down.

It's almost sad because we're so used to seeing what a joke that this is, that I think there are some people who think this is the way it is everywhere. Guess what? It's not. There are cities, even in our state, where the leaders look and act professionally, and where the citizens actually see progress rather than pointing fingers. Where they see action instead of accusations.

And it's not a race thing either. I perfectly understood what Drise said from the beginning. It's not about electing a black mayor or a white mayor or a male or a female. It's about electing someone that can get the job done and done right, and if that person happens to be black or happens to be white, then so be it. With the exception of Archer, the politicians and citizens of the city have spent the last 40 years bringing race into politics, and just where has that shown any benefit?
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Bragaboutme
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Username: Bragaboutme

Post Number: 359
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the riverfront thing worked out for the better. Now we have a chance to see units be built like the watermark so the river walk can enjoy a community feel.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1635
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eh I think you're all full of it who love Archer. If he was so great why did he quit?

To answer some of you:

1. I thought he was alright when he was mayor, but in retrospect I didn't see anything happening in the 8 years he was in office. Seriously. And don't give him credit for anything OTHER than compuware or hudsons (some of you SHOULD hate him for hudsons). Downtown AND the neighborhoods were still piles of shit in 2000.

2. If any of you don't like Kwame, you can place the blame squarely with Archer. HE QUIT. Anyone remember that? We were left with an inexperienced young guy with an earring, and an old, corrupt man to chose from.

3. I supported Sharon vehemently in 2005, then when left with a choice between "archer" (aka Freman) who I saw do nothing in 8 years, and Kwame, I went with the person who had momentum and was doing things.

What am I going to do now? I don't know...story isn't nearly over on any of this. I don't have to do anything.

I'm just trying to keep the story and history straight here.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 3311
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Didn't Archer secure the Super Bowl, which is heralded as the catalyst for all of the improvements to downtown?

Comerica Park?

Ford Field?

Also, didn't the arrival of Compuware essentially put the brakes on a 20 year trend of major companies fleeing the city, instead of moving to it?
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Sirrealone
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Username: Sirrealone

Post Number: 177
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ummm, he also laid the foundation for five of the biggest (if not top five altogether) capital investments in the city, namely the three casinos plus Comerica Park and Ford Field. Say what you will, but those things have brought people downtown and revenue to the city. Maybe they don't stay downtown to shop and eat and heck, even live, like we would all love to see happen, but still seems a hell of a lot better than having people head up 75 to the Silverdome or clog the tunnel and bridge to go to the Windsor casino.

Devil's Night turned to Angels night after Archer took a stand, and the day before Halloween has been 'just another day' since.

Crime levels fell during his time in office. As did unemployment rates.

And, say what you want, but people were motivated and had pride when Archer was mayor. He inspired people because he led by example. Even when he messed up, he still made the moves he did because he felt in his heart that they were best for the city. Kwame and Young, their heart went first what was good for them, and the city and citizens second. What inspiration do people take from Kwame? None, people would rather hide than stand behind him, and that reflects on the city.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 1476
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't forget the Opera House, the Chrysler jefferson plant, Cobo expansion, chene park, 7mnile home depot, telegraph k-mart ...

don't sound like nothing to me.

Not the biggest Archer fan,but...
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 7125
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Archer quit because he got tired of being labeled "not black enough" (sound familiar during KK's last re-election?).

And the reason that Archer wasn't able to get the city to move to the GM Building was not because he was weak or ineffective, but because some in City Council and the workers in the CAY Building thought that there was a "hidden agenda" into getting the black city workers out of downtown into and into "that old building" away from downtown.

So now the State of Michigan has an absurdly spacious and opulent first rate majestic office building, and the city workers are still crammed into the dumpy looking offices of the CAY Building (just look into the offices from the People Mover, they don't exactly look like "Class A" space).

Funny that... anyone in Detroit who wants to crush a good idea... all they have to do is start a "hidden agenda" rumor... and then watch the idea die a certain death.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1857
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ I agree Archer got tired of trying to run a city that didn't want him to run it.

How many people would stay on as managers at their jobs if the employees and shareholders (citizens) wanted them out. You can try and try for so long and after while it seems like you aren't appreciated and your deeds and efforts come with some sort of "hidden agenda" as Gistok stated. Detroiters want change but we don't know how to go about doing it the right way. Meaning we vote for some of the most IGNANT people around, try and recall those without scandals and criminal charges pending while trying to make a change.

Like the old sayings goes...you have to be the change you wish to see. That would explain why our city is the way it is now.

CAY is the shittiest office space around and again as Gistok said, look @ it on the People Mover.
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Mjb3
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Username: Mjb3

Post Number: 179
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Archer also cut taxes. The city payroll went from 1.5 workers/3.0 workers and residents to
1.25/2.5. He had planned to cut it down lower but then economy tanked...

Probably only mayor in last 75 yrs to cut any tax. He was getting ready to work on milleage rates and got tired of city clounsil..
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Tkelly1986
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Username: Tkelly1986

Post Number: 455
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Though the money does not exist, the city/county should consolidate along with a new police station at a renovated MCS.....one can dream.
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Bragaboutme
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Username: Bragaboutme

Post Number: 360
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Many forget about the B.S. that was spread about Archer throughout his term. Many people don't blame America for voting for Bush in office twice, yet they blame Detroiters for voting KK into office. There are people in all forms of Government that want to keep corruption going, it is a lucrative business. Archer was a stand-up guy. To buy into the theory that everyone thought Archer was a sell out is false. Majority of Detroiters thought highly of him.

The fact is, there was a recall against him, and B.S., propa.... whatever spread against him by people who were losing out because their 'Dirty' money, and greasy palms were drying up. Look at the Main players in that effort, and look at the people who are under investigation today.

I agree with Gistok, and others on this issue.

Maybe a new thread could be started on the pros, and cons. Archer Vs. Kilpatrick.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 1942
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On a balanced note, wasn't Archer responsible for bulldozing and/or evicting Rivertown?
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1276
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

archer managed to take down y.b.i.
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 675
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2008 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think this thread has infurated me the most!

For the anti-Archer coalition....

Are you serious? This is why Detroit is in the situation it is.

First of all Archer didn't QUIT! He did what he thought was right and lead the city and region in the right direction and then he LEFT office after two terms.

The city prospered under Archer more than any Mayor since the 60's.

If the Anti-Archer group could please name an event that KK has brought to the city?

The DPS actually grew to over 200,000 students under Archer!

And IMOP, riverfront casino/hotels were perfect for Detroit..

Imagine this, Detroit, a getaway destination!
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2695
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2008 - 1:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK, Detroit313, what do you want to say about the pro-Archer coalition?
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 1479
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2008 - 6:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Riverfront Casino plan was fubar due to one simple fact: why put buildings that don't have windows next to a "view"?

This week, Mrs. Gnome and I had dinner at the New Steve's Soul Food on Franklin, afterwards we drove around past our favorite haunts: the Rhinoceros, Soup Kitchen, Woodbridge Tavern, Franklin Street Brewery.

Surprisingly we didn't get a single beer at any of those places.

Archer's problem was that he had never run a business, didn't know about payroll, and never was able to relate to small business folk. He was fine with big ideas like Comerica and Compuware, but a city's character runs on small enterprises. Shoe repair and Dry cleaning. Sandwiches and schooners of suds. Small, family run places make neighborhoods. Stadiums and Opera Houses make Entertainment Districts. Big difference.

Archer's other problem is that he didn't know how to finish a sentence, and he still doesn't know how to finish a sentence. He runs on and on and on until you want to strangle him. "Just tell me the time, not how the watch was made" fits Archer like a glove.

HEard him on Mildred couple weeks back, he was on for 20 minutes and she asked 3 questions. 3! In an interview? WTF? Shut up already, its maddening.

True, Archer was a huge improvement over Coleman's last two terms, and Kwame is a huge let down, but Archer was not Moses or Muhammad. He's now running for Governor and that doesn't get me all tingly either.
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1443
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2008 - 11:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Archer was incomparably better than Kwame. Basically the only two things Archer did that irritated me were the Rivertown fiasco and the Hudson's demolition. Logically I realize that Hudson's couldn't sit there forever, but the way the demolition was forced-fed with no public hearing (except after the fact) was annoying. And the shot of Archer pumping his fist during the implosion was a little sickening. A somber moment of silence was what was called for!

Gnome-- Chrysler's Jefferson North plant and the Cobo expansion actually were done during Young's terms. The Jefferson plant was dedicated on March 31, 1992. Cobo's expansion was dedicated in Sept. 1989.

Bragaboutme wrote, "Many people don't blame America for voting for Bush in office twice." Actually, we voted Bush in only once. The Supreme Court voted him in the first time.
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 676
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2008 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce-

I have to say Arches was great for the city. We needed him then we need him now. But the political issues in Detroit are terrible!

Archer didn't want to run again because of various reasons, but the fact is he left the city in a better position than he received it!

There needs to be term limits for the Mayor; CAY stayed too long, and KK might be re-elected. For the sake of the city, and region, KK, needs to step down!

I was neutral on the river front casinos, but I was, and still am for development in the city. And saying that was actually for the riverfront casinos.

1600 hotel rooms on the river, facing another country! Truly an international metropolis.

And look at the school system. What a shame.

I can't recall, but didn't Detroit receive 2 billion from the fed to rebuild the infrastructure of the schools?

Archer was doing great, 30 million for a Pershing for a roof here, 20 million for Cooley for new floors there.

Then KK, gets into office and uses 200 MILLION plus to build a new Cass tech (His alma-mater). I'm betting Ferguson got the bid too.

That's when I had enough.

And while Archer was in office, did we ever hear about the financial status of the city? He made the city's bond rating A+.

He brought Detroit back from the dead!

Archer had a vision for Detroit, A WORLD CLASS CITY! That was all I needed to stay in Detroit. Black or white, he was a great mayor-period!
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 1741
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2008 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I second Gnome. Archer had screwed up several things. The casino issue was a total debacle this includes the selection of who was going to run them (note that two of the original three are no longer running the casinos), the demands that they had to have 800 rooms (could you imagine an MGM twice the size of the one we have now???), to the whole kick out residents and successful businesses from Rivertown move (Rivertown was one of the last places that needed redevelopment, it needed better transportation and parks, not urban renewal). He was not perfect. He too appointed many family and friends to positions.

313, the City did not rebuild Cass, it was the school board. The City don't run the schools anymore than the Schools run the City. The district just happens to have the same boundary as the City, otherwise they are autonomous. Yes they need to coordinate things, and under Engler, there was mayoral representation on the school board, but that was while Kwame was a State rep. The new Cass was started long before Kwame got into office. Federal money had nothing to do with the school capital improvements. It was a millage and my property taxes went up quite a bit because of it. I voted yes on the millage by the way because the schools were in deplorable condition back then.

(Message edited by Detroitplanner on July 20, 2008)

(Message edited by Detroitplanner on July 20, 2008)
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 1486
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanx Burnsie for the corrections ... guess I was using my depleted memory banks too much.

I was interested in Gistock's very good recollection on selling Ford the CAY building. I had forgotten the dust-up about moving City Hall to New Center.

I tried to find some old newspaper articles on the subject, but couldn't find anything.

quote:

And the reason that Archer wasn't able to get the city to move to the GM Building was not because he was weak or ineffective, but because some in City Council and the workers in the CAY Building thought that there was a "hidden agenda" into getting the black city workers out of downtown into and into "that old building" away from downtown.



I seem to recall that then City Council members, Sharon McPhail and Gil Hill couched the possible move to the old GM HQ as "outsiders" trying to take over the waterfront.

I'm interested if anyone else remembers the same thing. As Burnsie was so kind to point out, my memory can fail me on occasion.
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Quinn
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Post Number: 1636
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Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow big thread...just getting back in now. Sharon wasn't a city council member until 2001 so I don't think she had anything to day (only a one-termer)
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Ffdfd
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Username: Ffdfd

Post Number: 328
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Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

[Archer] too appointed many family and friends to positions.



Detroitplanner, an excerpt from a story in the Freep on May 10, 2008:

quote:

Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick's record of employing family and friends far exceeds the appointments of other prominent local officials and previous Detroit mayors.

Dennis Archer, mayor from 1994 through 2001, employed a cousin and her husband as mayoral assistants. His sister-in-law, Beth DunCombe, a lawyer, ran the Detroit Economic Growth Corp., a quasi-governmental organization that oversees revitalization projects.

Archer, who declined to discuss Kilpatrick's appointments, said Friday that the growth corporation's board chose DunCombe for her experience and said he didn't lobby for her appointment.

Archer said he did not hire any former schoolmates, though he has said he hired a former classmate's brother to run a neighborhood city hall.


http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20080510/NEW S01/305100009/0/news01
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Spiritofdetroit
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Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've got no problem with a politician appointing friends and family to posts if they are competent. It makes sense to appoint someone you know and are able to work closely with, especially if they are comrades from other posts you've held.

But, Kwame's goons have no knowledge, experience, or integrity when running a city.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1868
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Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^Amen... we all have an interest in looking out for those around us, but they have to be qualified and not everyone needs to be hired on your staff.
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Burnsie
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Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gnome-- I used the Freep online archives to zero in on the exact dates of that stuff. It's pretty fun to to that. Even without paying to read the whole article, you usually can get the basic info you need from the headline, date & paragraph. Too bad the online archives don't go back further than 1982.
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Gistok
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Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As much as I lamented that City Hall did not move to the old GM Building (Cadillac Centre), I am very pleased that the State of Michigan made the building their main building in the state of Michigan's largest city.

I was in Chicago about 10 years ago, and I was in the "State of Illinois Center" in downtown Chicago (near the Chicago River). It was a modern cylinder shaped building of about 17 stories, with a 17 story round atrium. Each floor of offices were crescent shaped around that impressive soaring atrium. It was very impressive for the main state office building in Illinois's largest city.

However, Detroit now has a State office building in Detroit (our largest city) that can really hold its' own against any state building in the nation.

Someone on this thread mentioned moving city hall to the Michigan Central Station. However, I believe that is too far from the center of the city.

However I do believe that the MCS would have made a wonderful Federal Office & Courts Building for Detroit. The MacNamara Federal Building is made of concrete and pales by comparison to the main federal buildings of other American cities. And although I like the Moderne style of the Federal Courthouse, it's not exactly spectacular in appearance. I think that it would have been nice if both the federal offices, the federal courts (along with the relocation of Chief Judge John Feikens 1895 Courthouse Chambers) and all the Immigration/Border and FBI would have relocated to the MCS Building. The broad expanse of Roosevelt Park around the massive structure could have served as a perfect barrier against any potential terrorist attacks via car bombs.

And with the county moving to the Guardian Building (haven't heard much lately), that too is an over the top impressive building (although the 1902 County Building is very nice also).

So what other buildings could make a nice City Hall? One would be the soon to be vacated Old County Building. It would make a great City Hall (in addition to keeping the CAY Building).

Another building that would make a cool City Hall would be the former Kresge World HQ in Midtown on the west side of Cass Park (near the Masonic Temple). That very impressive Albert Kahn 4 story symmetrical building looks like it could be a city hall building, or even a museum.

And what about the old MacNamara Building and the Moderne Federal Courthouse? Well the MacNamara Building could be converted to residential, and the courthouse could become the Main Post Office. For many years that building shared as both Main Post Office and Federal Courthouse. Returing it to Main Post Office status (with that ugly Fort Street building as the main sorting house) wouldn't be too bad.

Just dreamin....

P.S. When the 1895 Romanesque Revival Federal Courthouse was razed in the early 1930's for the Moderne new courthouse, the Chief Judges opulent Romanesque chambers were dismantled and reconstructed into the new Moderne structure.

(Message edited by Gistok on July 25, 2008)
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Royce
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Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 3:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do agree that the Albert Kahn building next to Cass Park is a beautiful building. It reminds me of a building you would find on a college campus. As for it serving as City Hall, it would be out of the way. City Hall needs to be in and around the location that it's in. I think that's another reason that the idea of moving it into the GM Building didn't work.

I could see City Hall relocated to the First National Building or in a new building on Monroe and Cadillac Square. That's where the old ones used to be. The current City Hall needs a serious upgrade.
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Richie
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Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 8:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember the story as it was in all the local papers. I was hoping it would happen and if I recall correctly GM would be taking over the eyesore on Jefferson as part of the deal. It was a win-win for everyone with the city offices would all be in one location for the first time and the old city hall would have by this time probably have gone the same way as the beautiful city hall it replaced. A few weeks ago when I was at the GM Building it seems the first floor (in the former GM Laboratories side)is now a police station, a lot of Crown Vic's parked there and a cuffed guy was being dragged in as I walked down the street. Probably not what Albert Kahn envisioned in the 1920's!
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56packman
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Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alfred Sloan is turning in his grave.

Billy Durant is laughing in his grave. His "D" is over the front door, the same door the perps are probably taen through.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 1053
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Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 9:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richie -

Yes, the Michigan State Police operate a post there
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 3024
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Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 9:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HA! I know all the 1st - 3rd generation Detroiters are turning over in their graves (especially the ones who once help develop Detroit into a great city).
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Burnsie
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Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm glad the State Police post is in the old GM Building, since it helps deter people from breaking into the Argonaut.

It's too bad the GM Building wasn't renamed the Durant Building when GM moved out. That was what it was originally to be called before Durant lost control for the 2nd time. There are enough things named for Cadillac, whereas Durant has little named after him. In or near Flint there is a vacant hotel, a school, and a backwater street named after him. In Lansing there's a park. I can't think of anything else.
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3rdworldcity
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Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Archer was not the first to consider moving the City offices.

During CAY's 2nd last term, Staubauch Company (Roger Staubach's real estate company which at the time had an office in Southfield) made very professionally drafted Offers to Purchase to several office building owners in the area of Grand Circus Park. I had an ownership interest in one of them at the time. The offers were made on behalf of an undisclosed principal, which was a shelf corporation owned by Dykema Gosset. (I immediately recognized the drafting as Dykema's and by looking at the initials of the typist at the end, I even knew which lawyer drafted them.) I don't know how many if any owners accepted the offers, but they were eventually dropped. It wasn't until 2 years later that I learned that Dykema's client was the City of Detroit, which was in the process of implementing CAY's plan to relocate city offices to GCP.

In my opinion Archer was the worst mayor the city ever had. I admit I can't stand him. It wasn't just the Riverfront fiasco. The guy was so stupid, the casinos played him like a fiddle.

For a long time he was against casino gambling and it was a major deal point while running for his first term. He railed against the evils casino gambling would cause the city. Then, of course, he flipped and became gambling's greatest advocate. Gee, anyone ever wonder why?

Then, he (purposely) screwed up the whole process. You know folks, there's all kinds of precedent for selecting gaming operators when gaming is first permitted by municipalities. The U. of NV - Las Vegas even has a course designed for municipal leaders. The cardinal rule is this: if 3 casinos are to be permitted, select 5 or 6 operators from those competing for the licenses, and negotiate contracts with all of them. From the best contracts, select the winners. Archer, that incompetent, selected the licensees FIRST and THEN "negotiated" the terms of the deals. The national gaming press howled with laughter at the process. In fact, one had a national editorial titled "Just Say 'No' to Detroit."

Then, the 3 operators conned him again. Archer had required that the operators build their permanent casinos, and 800 room hotels, in 3 clearly defined casino districts, Greektown, Washington Blvd, and Edison. They built their temporary casinos on sites they selected, not within those districts for the most part. None of them wanted to build permanent casinos and hotels as required by their contracts with the city. They also wanted to delay construction of the permanent casinos for as long as possible if appeared they couldn't get out of doing it. They went to the resident idiot and convinced him to permit them to build permanent casinos (which they didn't want to build at all) on the Riverfront (the last place they wanted to be.) The casinos dictated the terms of the agreement with the City to move there. They set the time frames and capped the land acquisition costs for the three casinos. (The land acquisition costs for all casinos was capped at an amount less than the value of Steve Wynn's personal art collection on display at Bellagio at the time.) In other words, the terms for Riverfront development were designed to prevent the casinos from being built there. Then of course, they just expanded their temps (except for MGM) and stayed where they were.

By the way, MGM's temporary casino was owned by a Trust for one of Tony Soave's kids and was rented to MGM. Soave never was able to obtain the consent of the Gaming Control Board to be the landlord) and MGM after several years exercised an option to purchase it. It's interesting to note that the Soave/MGM lease contained a provision which hinted at the idea MGM would attempt to continue operating a 4th licensed casino there if they ever had to build a permanent casino.

The deal by which MGM as a condition of getting the license - by bringing in 10 of Archer's buddies, for the aggregate "investment" of $5 million, for a minimum return of $4million/year and a max of $16 million/year - makes Kwame look like an amateur. The guy's either the most crooked mayor the city ever had, or the stupidist if he didn't get a taste of that deal.

Archer is a mediocre lawyer who, as I recall, was a political appointee to the Su. Ct. He's the token head of a large law firm and the token past president of the ABA. His election as governor would be the frosting on the cake.

So there, all you Archer lovers.

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