  Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 7429 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think I was thinking of 101.1, not 94.7. Thanks, Melody. | ||
Detroitderek Member Username: Detroitderek Post Number: 46 Registered: 09-2007 |
I agree. A lot of the cds I hear ( or people give to me ) from local bands the volume is too low, etc to consider for airplay. A lot of bands get upset because they don't know the expectations, when if they would've done a little research first it would save them some frustration. I am familiar, only a little though I will admit, of Riff2 through the Detroitcity.com website where I used to hang out. | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 1960 Registered: 02-2007 |
It's not that the local CD's aren't loud enough. It's that the commercial ones are compressed to oblivion. A trend that is waning, thankfully. (Message edited by larryinflorida on July 01, 2008) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13261 Registered: 12-2003 |
Heya Rockcity! Would you support the new HD Radio by buying one IF we could get the radio stations to provide local music coverage on one of their adjacent channels? This is a new concept, or relatively new, where up to SIX channels can be squeezed into one slot, and heard ONLY with special tuners. Already 94.7-2 has great programming, I've got to get through to Uncle Buck, he was one year ahead of me at St. Al's in Dearborn, to thank him for the awesome programming they are doing now...and to see what the chances of local promotion could be...it might be the answer they're looking for to finally sell advertising on these sidebands. I surely wish WDET could get more on-board with personnel for their .2 broadcasting...but we'd have to show them support for local music by donating specifically for the HD Radio programming. This infrastructure is already IN PLACE in these stations, but the consumers will have to shell out for the tuners in their cars and homes...and I'm still not sure what is happening with portable devices. Right now, you cannot find an inexpensive receiver with HD Radio built-in, it is seen as a luxury, but there is one cheap additional tuner I've been playing with from a firm called Sangean. But it would still cost about two hundred dollars to access this new broadcasting at home...I don't even KNOW what the mobile units cost yet. I might have to contact a person I interviewed with at Delphi...or was it Visteon?...I get so confused ignoring corporate names...to see what they have planned in the future. Someone needs to make an iPod/Walkperson device with an AM/FM/HD tuner built-in...with adapters for both home and car use. That would be a sure-seller, and truly launch HD Radio into the saturation it deserves. There is no breaking through these corporate monsters in their very valuable programming space on regular FM broadcasting, though, they will ONLY get on board when it is way obvious that they will make money on it. Then it will be too late to help! (I'd like to be wrong with this, but the trend towards national programming is too strong, they want to eliminate local DJs everywhere they can!) Cue Blair's excellent song regarding the controversial death of music on WDET from years ago...'Hey DJ'...written for a fellow I'm desperate to get on this committee, Ralph Valdez. Much kudos to Craiggy and his crew at DetroitTODAY for resurrecting it as much as they can... (edit to correct station number!) (Message edited by Gannon on July 01, 2008) | ||
Detroitderek Member Username: Detroitderek Post Number: 47 Registered: 09-2007 |
The local cds are frequently not loud enough, or mixed poorly. I've got over 200 local band cds in my collection and a majority of them are like that. Even one of my favorite bands ( not a local band ) , Husker Du, was guilty of it. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13262 Registered: 12-2003 |
(in the time it took to write that and answer an e-mail you all already introduced HD Radio...and Melody works at one of the stations in it...I'd swear there is some synergy happening here!) | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 1961 Registered: 02-2007 |
No argument there. But I would not aspire to just occupy the top last 3 db's of a medium that has 100+ db's of range, like albums have been, the last 10 years. Ear-fatigue sets in fast. The industry is on a new crusade to back it down a little. Might be good. | ||
Melody Member Username: Melody Post Number: 219 Registered: 11-2007 |
Because Riff2 is an HD station, it's even harder to get the quality we need because everything is digital. We can't accept MP3s, etc. But in turn, everything sounds great. We do a lot of tweaking with the levels to make sure the local stuff is all at the same level. We're supposed to get a call-in with George Clinton tonight on the show, not sure if it's going to happen though. In anycase, we'll be previewing a lot of bands playing Cityfest. Listen tonight at 10 p.m.  www.riff2.com </shameless_plugging> | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13263 Registered: 12-2003 |
Digital Compression is evil in all its forms! Say NO to reduced dynamic range and excessive volume! heh WDET proved years ago that NOT playing the loudest-station-on-the-dial game was the way to go to maintain sound quality and pleased listenership. Too many ways to 'trick' the human perceptual system, and early market testing showed that many people gravitated to the loudest broadcasting...but without training in noticing ear fatigue, the stations ended up making the end-product so unenjoyable that they lost their listeners to CD instead! (then they lost 'em to MP3, and rather than spend some time showing people the sound quality they were losing went and sued some college students instead! The RIAA has too many lawyers...and not enough passion in their ranks!) (Message edited by Gannon on July 01, 2008) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13264 Registered: 12-2003 |
Melody, I will tune that in now so I don't miss it. You rock, I cannot wait to meet you. Can you ask management if I can get a quickie tour and interview your co-horts? This is a story that needs to be written...and if MetroTimes calls first tell them to go away! This one's mine...and I'd be HAPPY to sell it to them. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1558 Registered: 12-2003 |
The trouble with HD-2 is they're running them as automated jukeboxes until they get listeners...(except for RIFF2) ...it's hard to get listeners without any compelling content though. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13265 Registered: 12-2003 |
You are exactly right, Pffft. Chicken...meet egg! | ||
Rockcity2windycity Member Username: Rockcity2windycity Post Number: 311 Registered: 11-2005 |
Send me the information on HD radio Gannon my email is hdbenion77@comcast.net the reason i stopped listening to radio was of the commercialism. I understand they have to make money but they could atleast slip in a couple local acts every hour or two. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13271 Registered: 12-2003 |
Rock, E-mail sent, you may want to alter or delete that so the spammers don't catch it. Cheers | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 1966 Registered: 02-2007 |
The new HD channels are this new thing at stations that, like internet streaming, the sales dept hasn't totally figured out how to sell it and the programming dept hasn't figured out how to program it. That's changing fast, but it still begs the question "If a song plays on HD, and there are 25 receivers in the market, does it make a noise?" During that eventual ascent however, if ubiquitous wireless internet doesn't clobber both it and satellite, it should be a fertile place for original material from local talent. The 6-share powerhouse down here ran Christmas logs from Thanksgiving to New Years on the 2nd HD stream. Imagine the revenue that denied them! | ||
Melody Member Username: Melody Post Number: 220 Registered: 11-2007 |
You are right, Larry and Pfft. It's frustrating because HD programming is good, alot of it. I love WCSX's deep tracks and one of the R&B stations has an old school hip-hop station. But yeah, we never know how many people are listening until we say something really obnoxious and everyone e-mails us, ha. Gannon -- Thanks! What do you want a tour of, Riff2? It's the same studio as WRIF. We record in the same place Trudi prepares for her newscast. If you want to do an article we can probably arrange it. | ||
Ggores Member Username: Ggores Post Number: 159 Registered: 10-2007 |
"If a new up and coming independent rock group with original songs wants to do well, they are better off not playing every weekend in the same market once they are established to a point." I understand, but this sounds more like selling ice cubes to Eskimo's, in other words, use of the word "market" indicates a flaw which the musician should not be concerned with. How can I put it? If you want to simply make enough to pay bills and play music, then I guess this is fine. Yes, Howling Diablos have done it. Jimmy McCarty has done it. On and on and on the list could go. I simply come from the D underground and am on a committee of sorts as well. Give me bounce on the low end, snares buzzing from the high end, and a awesome sound in the Kill Zone of the room, and I'm happy. :-) Don't give me money, don't give me compliments, just give me some room, and I am happy. Don't blow smoke up my butt, don't say how good I/We are when I/We actually SUCKED, but give credit where credit is due whenever you think to yourself, "wow - I am in Detroit and seeing something that is world-renowned". Attitude. And with that, carry on, this sounds many good ideas. Gg. | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 550 Registered: 03-2005 |
Well, I walked in on this cocktail party a little late. In my less-than-Berry Gordy opinion, it's not about compression, high-tech sound systems, recording quality, etc., so much as it's just a lack of enthusiasm for live music like Detroit had in the good ol' days. If I had a nickel for every good band I've seen playing to an empty room, or asked by bar owners "what's your draw" instead of "what's your sound", or ignored while the barflies waited for the DJ to play booty music between sets... I don't know how to get the paying customers in the door. Everyone says it was a lot easier in the '80s and '90s, because people were more interested in the "scene". But these days, people will pay $20 to stand and watch DJ MintyFresh twiddle knobs for an hour. Or they'll turn around and walk out of a bar when they find out there's live music, because they "hate bands." (Yes, I've heard that.) It's a different world now, and it takes more than talent and good intentions. | ||
Larryinflorida Member Username: Larryinflorida Post Number: 1968 Registered: 02-2007 |
Melody, if we harken back to "Underground FM" in the 60's, the station owners often let them do what they pleased because FM was considered low listenership in the late 60's. Ten years later, CKLW AM was passe and ahem, your place was on top.=) Consider the new channels in the same framework, and while the owners aren't looking, you could have a hit! (Message edited by larryinflorida on July 01, 2008) | ||
Ggores Member Username: Ggores Post Number: 161 Registered: 10-2007 |
ad-hoc comment: Just listened to "Let It Loose" from Exile. I still wonder, in amazement, how that thing was ever broken down and mixed from a basement. Gosh. Now THAT'S breaking down! :-) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13273 Registered: 12-2003 |
Melody, Your show is a blast, you and the others obviously have a huge deal of fun, and you play some great tunes. I love the local banter, had to relate your Bone-a-Ho to a friend who owns the building...and then the quickie about Stirling controlling the 'grassy knoll' at CityFest...very funny, bitches! Reminds me of the FM of old, modern air aces without a doubt. This is hot enthusiastic radio. You turned me onto more new music tonight than I've heard in a while...we've really got some great rock happening in this town. Thanks for knowing and sharing it. Killer cool...and you are having fun with your passion publicly...THAT'S the story, or at least part of it. I feel CSX-2's passion as well, even without the live DJ action...the number of old b-sides and obscure killer rock tracks they play is out of this world...all the tracks I loved on the albums that never quite got airplay, for whatever reason. It has been a long while since I could use that term to describe the drive behind the DJs...seemed the last time I felt it with rock and roll was Mick's program on WDET that went away. HD-2 broadcasting DOES feel like early FM. I'd think with the reduced listenership, they could give some killer promotional time to local businesses at very decent rates...it would be so precisely targeted to people with buying potential because they have either recently bought a new car and/or they put money out to try this new technology. Do they have ANY rating figures on it yet? LOL at 25 in the metro area, Larry, that might not be far off outside of rush hour. That stuff still all done through Arbitron? I wish that Sangean sales agent would return my calls...my dealer says HE could never get through to the guy, either, so I'm not too worried. Maybe we can do a poll of the numbers of forumers who already have access to HD Radio here, too? I'd be VERY curious. How about a poll of potential HD listeners IF they could be guaranteed programming that mattered to them? Who might belly up to the retail store to GAIN access to this stuff? I'm constantly enthused when I roam the dial to discover what each station is doing with HD-2 and beyond, although I haven't seen ANY HD-3 channels yet. Actually, the fact that I'm roaming it AT ALL means it has revived some passion for music in me, too. Cheers! | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13274 Registered: 12-2003 |
I'd be curious to see how the live-music business has changed in other markets, to see if there are trends. Great post, Diehard, probably more necessary to hear that than a hundred posts of cheerleading and dreaming...you just brought gravity back, at least for me. Echoed in a few of you, that's for sure. But it is not that way everywhere...there are scenes in certain towns and cities that seem perpetually hot. Any way we could see to get us there?! | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 978 Registered: 03-2008 |
We need a place that sells local artist's music for starters. I've been looking for a copy of "The Entity" for what seems like forever. Many local releases are so hard to find, you can't even bootleg them online. I personally like what Phish did. Give the music out for free, then make your money off the shows. Each show should be different. It should be a unique experience. If you do that, and you are good (passionate), then you will probably begin to get some devoted fans. Go ahead and play in Detroit a couple times. Then move it to Saginaw or Toledo. I bet you will have fans that follow you after awhile. Besides each show being unique, each show should be taped. The people who had a good time, should be able to go on your website, and buy that show for a small amount. Each show needs to be treated like your last and first show. It should always be a once in a life time experience every time. My brother and I got tickets to a concert tour for each other once. I got the Detroit tickets, and he got his city's tickets (He lives on the West coast). Both shows where the exact same pre recorded, pre planned copy of a copy of a pathetic show. To many don't realize that fans are just returning customers that actually promote you for free. You should be making sure their experience is nothing short of the best you can provide. | ||
Detroitderek Member Username: Detroitderek Post Number: 50 Registered: 09-2007 |
Gannon - part of what happened in other cities ( from my experience anyway ) is that places like Cleveland, Chicago etc moved away from the L.A. approach of paying off the door only to having a minimum guarantee pay for the artist. Obviously there are assumptions that the artist will draw/promote etc and not get lazy. They then concentrated on making it an experience for the audience as well. Look at the Crofoot: great sound, comfortable, bands love playing there - the place was designed to give the ultimate live show. Sean: You make a lot of good points that make a lot of sense. But the artists don't really give the music away for free, do they? They give away what they would like you to have to get you to come out to the show ( which others have done in the past to an extent ) , but you can't walk into Record Time to get your free Phish cd. It CAN be a successful marketing tool, but to the artist - how much is your time/work worth? And as a music fan, just because something is free , does that mean it's good? Does that mean every artist should offer their music for free? Isn't playing a song on the radio, in theory, free? It opens up a whole Pandora's box with answers that could probably fill another thread. I'm a musician and a photographer and get hit up by someone on a daily basis for something for free. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13277 Registered: 12-2003 |
Funny you should bring up Crofoot, I mentioned all of this to my favorite bartender in the whole universe down at Vivio's Monday night, and a great woman who I've shared space with over drinks chimed in and got me on the phone with her friend whose son runs the gigs there...he used to do it with Majestic. Thought there was some good synergy there, too. I've got to get up there to check it out, and hope to get HIM on this committee as well. It is likely that some of you know him, and while I'm sure we met at some point I'm horrible tying names to faces until I write while I'm seeing them...I cannot place him yet. Any help getting his attention to this quest would be greatly appreciated. Derek, That last paragraph is part of the crux of the issue...when something is as easy to someone as exhaling, it is sometimes tough for them to assess a fee, especially for those they know. You seem to have a handle on the value of your work, so you will derive an income from it, although you appear stingy occasionally to those who are not yet on board and think you can just give it away to them, this time. We've got a problem with the parlor music series at Audra's house, too. She has many, many friends who simply assume they are on her list to get in free simply because they have always been on her ever-growing list. I'm trying to get her to actually raise her door price, then TRADE access for work, since it has been quite difficult to get bodies to setup and clean...we've been doing it ourselves and NOT making any coin worth counting. I haven't heard back from her on that proposal yet, but I'm sure I'll hear it when she's broke...as I always seem to be. heh I overspeak to make a point. I don't know any musicians at this point who are wealthy, and few who are even comfortable...unless they've got some killer day job that is flexible enough to handle an occasional travel tour. Promotions seem to be an issue, and that is to be expected. If one is gifted at one thing, it is VERY likely they will not be willing or able to self-promote...that is the nature of gifts. Talented individuals, who MUST work at their craft in order to improve, are another story altogether. It is the discerning between gifts and talents that needs to be done...and then noticing abilities and accommodating when the artists meet the end of theirs. I'm lucky, I already KNOW I've got no ability to recognize either time or money until they run out. Some people simply NEED a manager and/or handler. Finding one you can trust with your life, hopefully one who won't grow jealous of your natural abilities and end up stealing your stuff, is the tough part. Cheers | ||
Detroitderek Member Username: Detroitderek Post Number: 51 Registered: 09-2007 |
And please understand, that I do frequently give away my time, talents on a recording session, photographs for national magazines, etc for free on occasion, it's just a matter of an artist ( any artist in any medium really ) to determine the trade-offs. I CONSTANTLY get emails deriding the concept behind giving away your "product" for free, but I believe there are times when it is a great business idea to do it, or it just feels right. Guest lists are always a problem. You may want to limit it to a certain number ( 10 for example ) so that the importance of that person getting in is decided by the performer in advance of the show. Promotions are a funny deal. A lot of people don't want to put in the time and effort. But MOST people's favorite topic to talk about is themselves, especially if they are an artist. A little contradictory. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13281 Registered: 12-2003 |
You are not giving it away of there is trade-in-kind, even if for some future yet-defined benefit. I DO understand what you are saying about the personalities with such bravado, but I've found that is MUCH more often their first line of defense against deep insecurities that they will often NOT want to blare from a mountaintop. Difference between keeping a focus upon themselves in a social situation for personal comfort and advertising a performance or concept that they are not directly relating face-to-face. If it fails, it can be crushing to their egos. Geez, managers and handlers need to be really special people...more I consider it, the more I appreciate the good ones. They must not only be good with money and time, they need to be psychologists and mediators. Cheers! | ||
Melody Member Username: Melody Post Number: 223 Registered: 11-2007 |
Thanks for listening Gannon! Yeah, we do the show as if we're just in a room talking, so sometimes it gets really snarky and silly, and sometimes it's "radio for two" as my boyfriend calls it, when we go off on something that we assume everybody knows, and then the intern is like "what were you guys even talking about?" Real quick on guest lists...I don't let bands have more than one guest list per member, unless they are a member of the press. If most of one band's friends get in free, and the other band's friends all pay, then why should both bands get paid? And one last word on playing too much...I guess I'm speaking from the view of the booking agent. I won't book a band that's already playing that week, or the week after, or the week before. Or I try not to. We want something special, not something that people can see a few days later at a venue down the street. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13286 Registered: 12-2003 |
Melody, That silly snarkiness belies your insider status, and is actually intriguing...and makes me want to learn MORE to understand it all. Don't let some minor criticism from the other side of the bed keep you from it...it is fucking infectious. And that is a GOOD thing, necessary to the creation of a 'scene' that others will want to investigate. Cheers and more...good luck with that hair. Let me know if and when we can cross paths, I'm trying to now plan my night around a good friend's brother and another friend's cousin who are in town ONLY for that night...since I'll be late and really only coming to meet you, can I get on the list as a journalist? I've got my creds, but they're a wee bit rusty from my lengthy sabbatical, unless you want to count my publicizing HERE, heh. Heh, then I'll BUY your coffee and muffin at the Cafe and it'll all shake out. Cheers | ||
Melody Member Username: Melody Post Number: 224 Registered: 11-2007 |
Thanks! Just show up after 12:30 and they'll have stopped charging cover. |
