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Archive through July 26, 2008Danny30 07-26-08  5:53 pm
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 7534
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's right Buzzman0077,

Broken homes, the hip hip/pop culture, street drugs, domestic violence, educational exclusion, single black mothers playing house and no black fathers is a common urban symptom for a black male to drop-out of school.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1322
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny: Drop outs, whether they are white, black, or in between, are everyone's problem. It's not a race issue...it's a societal issue. Drop outs cost society money in so far as housing them when they get locked up, crime (even if they don't get caught), disability payments, welfare, etc. It just doesn't effect the black community.

I am a teacher who is trying to make a difference in KIDS' lives. I am white, should I not be concerned and try to help kids BECAUSE I am white? You say it's a "black" problem. I say it's a problem...not belonging to one particular race.

Re-read your posts. You are contradicting yourself (as far as I can tell).
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 3076
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher, you'll have to excuse Danny.

He will make water a black or white issue
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Revaldullton
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Username: Revaldullton

Post Number: 1189
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny have you always hated white folks?


Sorry, just had too ask.


the good rev
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 7538
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitteacher

I specifically wrote that the black drop out rate in public schools in Michigan still remains a mostly black problem. It's not to become a white problem until it reaches a critical national crisis.

Revaldullton,

I'm not a racist. I use my views on race as a second person sentence what a race does to an other race will be recorded as historically perfect. However,any race " black, white, Hispanic, Asian etc..." will create a cover up with contextual language and say " THERE WAS NO PROBLEM ON BLACKS, WHITES HISPANICS AND ASIANS" Today it exists and history tells it all.

I do not hate white folks. But of any of forumers ever bring up "race problems" in this thread there's going to be race cards comming from me. I hope you all have a full deck for I have the royal flush in my hand.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 6163
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe Danny's white, correct? It really doesn't matter, though. One can choose to debate him at their own peril.
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Hpgrmln
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Username: Hpgrmln

Post Number: 517
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Black youth have been taught by their peers that they aren't being true to their race by being booksmart. Many black youths are very intelligent, but will not apply themselves for fear of their classmates telling them they are "acting white."
That point was made by none other than a black man, Dr. Thomas Sowell, based on research he conducted.
Why Michigan is worse than other states I cannot say.But as far as low graduation rates among blacks, peer influence plays a part.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 7543
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hpgrmln,

Most black folks who are smart need to come out of their isolation and teach the dumb black folks that being smart doesn't mean " acting white" but it does make them think for themselves.
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 5471
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, Danny (aka Ghettoman) aint white...hate to break it to you.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 3085
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"One can choose to debate him at their own peril."

Blksoul will give Danny a good run for his money. :-)
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Zrx_doug
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Username: Zrx_doug

Post Number: 363
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny, I don't care if you're black, white, or flourescent green. If you're a high school graduate and still produce sentences like "I use my views on race as a second person sentence what a race does to an other race will be recorded as historically perfect.", you REALLY ought to go back to your alma mater and smack your english teacher(s) upside the head for giving you passing marks..
Seriously, I needed an interpreter for that one, dude..
:-)

Back on topic..
I tend to agree with the idea that the problem begins at home. Mom and/or dad need to instill the basic requirements for scholastic survival in their kids before the kids ever set foot in a school building.
Since parents here are (obviously) failing to do this as a group, what can we as a community do about it? How do you teach someone else's kid what is important in life without getting punched in the nose by a pissed off parent?
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 3093
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL doug! :-) (at first paragraph)
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1323
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 5:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've come close to getting punched in the nose by angry parents...not for what I was teaching but because I had never seen junior in my classroom (EVER). They told me I was lying and just didn't see him/her. Kind of hard to miss an entire kid for 16 weeks straight. I even call out names for attendance! If the never show up, I don't know that the kid is supposed to be in my class.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 7546
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zrx_doug,

Nobody's perfect on the English language, even college professors and editors or anyone on this forum. So get use to adapting people's language, slang or codespeak and then try to interpret what it means.
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Zrx_doug
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Username: Zrx_doug

Post Number: 367
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand this, Danny..hence the smiley-face in my gentle jab at you rather than an all-out attack on your capabilities.
However, if you're going to continually criticize a whole race, don't be upset when you find a critic or two of your own.

Just for the hell of it, explain what the heck you were attempting to say in the sentence I highlighted..it really makes no sense, and is thus open to very little interpretation, other than to interpret that the writer is sorely lacking in written communication skills.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1325
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If one wants to get a point across in a public forum then one should, at the very least, try and make one's point CLEAR and understandable to all. I guess we idiot white folk just don't understand Danny's codespeak.

It's attitudes (racist BS) such as his (Danny's) which make my job that much more difficult in trying to teach kids we have to get past all that and move on.
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 470
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Work or school.

Young Detroiters should know that these are their only two options available to them.

Period. NO BUMS ALLOWED.

The people of Detroit are giving offering their children the opportunity for a tuition-free education.

My grandparents didn't have that chance. Did yours? If a kid doesn't want to go to school, then GO TO WORK. Apprentice yourself somewhere. No jobs? Stay in school!

Boo hoo. Many, many successful people have grown up without fathers. Black AND white, Mexican & Asian. The last thing these kids need is a free pass to bum-hood.

My dad left school at the 8th grade, but he had to WORK.

We so DESPERATELY NEED a PUBLIC WORKS program that gets people off the streets and cleaning up this town. I'm no Socialist, but in this particular case, this would be a most productive kick-start. If they want to troll the neighborhoods at 1pm and pick up every g-banger and bum hanging out, that's OK with me.

Put a paint brush, a hammer, or a broom in their hands and give them the opportunity to contribute to their community. They may even learn a skill!
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 471
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny: I just noticed that you have a communications degree from WSU.

I do too!

So why does your grammar suck so bad? We all make a mistake or two but...jeez! I don't mean to be a smart-ass, but after you mentioned your education, I re-read your posts and....OMG! If you were a Physics major, I would have let it slide but....Communications???

Please proof your posts: it's embarrassing.

Thank you.
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 815
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The most productive program that I know starts with people recognizing there is a problem and stepping up to do something about it, not bitching about it on an internet forum or blaming others for what has or hasn't been done.

I do agree that it is difficult, if not impossible, to instill the kinds of values necessary to achieve in this life without having two parents in the equation to balance the needs of a childs psyche, but, lacking those parents and that balance, are we all just supposed to ignore what is going on in this rapidly deteriorating society and let the chips fall where they may?

I say be proactive, inventive and give to those that you think need the help the most. Go to places that you can be of some use, particularly places that are outside of YOUR normal comfort zone, and change things by volunteering yourself.

Big Brothers and Big Sister is a great start. Starting a community mentoring center is another. Read to kids, SHOW them by doing, not talking. The most effective example of action are those that do and are tangible contributors, not those who bitch from the comfort of their self made environments.Share your hard earned knowledge instead of hoarding it and go out and do something.

It may take some time, but your presence will speak volumes, believe me, as I have learned the most in my life from doing, not talking.

You will also get a sense of peace beyond all understanding, a feeling that only doing can provide.

I often think about how much time people spend on this forum typing when they could be out there doing. We need to stop the bitching and go out there and start doing.

I am no prophet, just someone who is trying to share the joy of participation that I have learned as I have grown older.

This is just my .02.

Peace, out.
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Vetalalumni
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Username: Vetalalumni

Post Number: 1068
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The poor grammar style being mentioned in this thread is actually consistent. That salient point leads to various possibilities. Some have had medical conditions onset affecting capabilities.

Poor grammar will always come under scrutiny. The opposing point of view will use it to demerit an otherwise viable position. Poor grammar also imposes upon the reader. This "adapting" is somewhat acceptable when that which is being communicated is true.

Grammar is a manifestation of language, and is a precise tool. Poor grammar is a barrier sometimes used intentionally as a red herring or a coping mechanism.

(Message edited by vetalalumni on July 27, 2008)
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 473
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grammar is a manifestation of language, and is a precise tool.

Indeed, which is why if one has a university degree in the use and application of that precise tool, one should be an expert at its use.

It's like a dentist and not knowing how to use the drill. Didn't he go to school for that?

Poor grammar is a barrier sometimes used intentionally as a red herring or a coping mechanism..

Well, OK. But, in this case, it is a poor reflection of my alma mater, WSU. Danny should have kept his mouth shut about his education...or at least, lie and say he went to Ohio State. LOL

(just teasing all you Buckeyes out there..)
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Goose
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Username: Goose

Post Number: 72
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

so how is that socialist public school system propagated and supported by democrats, who pander to the black population and pretty much EXPECT blacks to vote for them, working for you??????

thats what I thought................

until blacks decide to unshackle the chains of the democrat party from themselves, they will continue to wallow in less than mediocrity and failure.......
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Iseries840
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Username: Iseries840

Post Number: 725
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It isn't really the schools responsibility to graduate anyone. If these kids don't want to educate themselves then they don't deserve a damn thing.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 947
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Danny have you always hated white folks?


Sorry, just had too ask.


the good rev



Well, the thing about Danny is that he's mentally ill. It's something that many of the veteran posters here are aware of but it is never openly discussed.

(Message edited by warriorfan on July 27, 2008)
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Angry_dad
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Username: Angry_dad

Post Number: 221
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Caution, rant ahead:

You know, a situation like this IMO is justification for reinstatement of the draft. No not to send thousands of failures to Iraq. But a national service. Since some people don't want to learn, force them to learn. And while they are at it, use them to do something. Be it tearing down abandoned houses or planting trees, it beats having them enhancing their ability to detract from the rest of the productive society.

I also find it strange that while from around the world other nations fight to send kids to American colleges. While almost none fight to send kids to k - 12 schools.
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Buzzman0077
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Username: Buzzman0077

Post Number: 186
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I second Angry_dad's Service draft. I think all american's should be mandated to perform some kind of national service whether military or other.
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Duke_sims
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Username: Duke_sims

Post Number: 33
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As is the case with many things that are painted as racial, this is probably a class problem, not a skin color issue.

I'd like to see what the graduation rate is in poor white Appalachian areas. I bet it's pretty crappy, too.

Poor folks usually get crappy schools. I went to Detroit schools and then transferred to a suburban district in the 10th grade. The difference was absolutely shocking. Those differences had nothing to do with the race of the students or school administrators.

I bet the predominantly black schools in Southfield are doing much better than the mostly-white schools in the poor parts of, say, West Virginia.

It ain't skin color.

It's socioeconomic, stupid!
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 7978
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And yet socioeconomic outcomes are mostly related to the behavior of the group in question. People are poor for a reason. We are reinforcing foolish behavior (having children out of wedlock) by rewarding those doing so with taxpayer dollars. These people then see little benefit in finding gainful employment or improving their skills.

At the same time there is a culture in the inner city which does not hold learning and staying on the right path in high esteem. Responsible people who work hard eventually make it out of the city because they are able to attain good jobs. Those that don't do that are left behind.

So the poverty aspect is also a symptom for the root cause which is a breakdown in the family structure and the lack of positive role models in the home and the local community. If someone does not see the benefit of education, staying away from drugs and crime, and putting off having children until they can be afforded in a marriage, no amount of government intervention is going to have much effect.
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English
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Username: English

Post Number: 754
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is not primarily about race. It's about social class and economic opportunity. A high school diploma was a big deal in the 1960s. High school grads could feed their families (with a stay-at-home parent, no less) back then. Today, couples with multiple degrees are struggling.

A new WPA is almost inevitable. The infrastructure is falling apart, and the powers that be can't purchase replacement electrical grids and bridges from China. Time to rebuild.

Peak oil will also bring back manufacturing to our shores, simply because it will be no longer cost effective to use foreign labor. I hope that future generations will come to realize the security risk that we exposed ourselves to by offshoring even the production of weapons to nations that could be potentially hostile.

I would love to see Detroit become the Arsenal of Democracy once more. However, that day is done.
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Perfectgentleman
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Username: Perfectgentleman

Post Number: 7979
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree that going offshore will become economically disadvantageous. It already had in many respects as it is that practice that has created enormous demand for oil in China and India which is now driving up prices. Now though freight costs have quadrupled in a fairly short period of time.
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Rid0617
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Username: Rid0617

Post Number: 232
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 4:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is strange, the Detroit public schools were fantastic. Of course Detroit did have more money back then. I left DPS in 1966 when my old man got a wild hair and wanted to move to Florida because he was tired of snow. When I was enrolled in Florida public schools we found they were extremely behind. They were studying things in my grade I had been taught 2 years prior in Detroit.
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 1024
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 9:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

English (I had to say something on this),

I hate to say it, you're very bright, but your theory about Peak oil and labor is all wrong.

I know import/exporters and globalization folks - do you realize that Chinese workers make cents an hour? And that there are hundreds of millions of people still in the countryside who want these factory jobs?

Your theory has been passed around the 'net for awhile. It would take oil at more than ten times our current price to even come close to making your theory work. That will not happen.

The other reality is that a greater killer of jobs is technology. In fact, technology advances eliminate over twice as many jobs, as I understand it, than globalization does. But globalization is convenient to blame because there is a "them." With technology, it's "us" eliminating the jobs.

The powers that be CAN purchase new electrical equipment - but why? In the US, for the most part, it's all a private system. You're not going to see an upgrade until it makes financial sense to do so. I talked to a DTE engineer who showed me an electrical grid map of my old neighborhood. It's convoluted - and I said, "Why not improve it?" and he flatly said... "it would cost millions and why? It works. And we have a map. It's not like we can't find anything. You make no additional profit by improving the system for improving it's sake."
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English
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Username: English

Post Number: 759
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 9:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Digitalvision: we agree to disagree, because I think you're wrong as well, of course. :-)

Peak oil is a reality, not just some theory of kooks around the 'Net. But again, even more dire than a dwindling supply of cheap energy is the fact that we have offshored much of our manufacturing to nations that are not necessarily benign. China is our ally so long as it serves China's interests. I would not be surprised to see us go to war with China during my lifetime -- and I would not take it for granted that America would win.

If we are to accept your answers about technology, then what should be done with the population of excess unskilled workers? Thus far, current social policy has been to expand the penal system. What will happen when we have sufficient technology to replace not just factory workers, but engineers (the AI is coming)? Is it good social policy to render much of the adult male population idle? What does history have to say about that?

I wish our society would stop thinking 5-10 years into the future, and begin to think about the future we'd like to create. Our greatest leaders of the 20th century did exactly that. The problem with our current leadership, the Baby Boomer generation, is that very few have any foresight beyond correcting immediate problems.
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 1026
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Herodotus made the steam engine available to the Romans in ancient times - they ordered it destroyed because "what would we do with all the slaves?" So I get your point.

China COULD use mechanized labor - they don't because it creates more jobs. Crap jobs, but $300 US a month is better than $300 a year in their rural village. They're able to send their kids to university for $1500-$2500 US a year. They can have a one-bedroom apartment with heat. They are where we were a hundred plus years ago.

I agree peak oil will happen - I just don't agree it'll tip the economics as you say in regards to trade.
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Themax
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Username: Themax

Post Number: 957
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Years ago one of the Detroit papers did a survey of area schools. They found out that the schools with the most achieving students had parents who were involved with their children's education. No big surprise. But the parents also have to be aware of the career possibilities open to their kids. I get the feeling that many Detroiters are pretty insulated. They are not very aware of the bigger world except for music and sports.

Again a lot is about how and if parents encourage their kids to excel in school. There are a good number of kids in the suburbs who goof their way through school. And some who end up in alternative ed..Eventually some of them grow up and stop doing the things that deter them from accomplishing things. But some don't.
I'm sure the same is true for kids in Detroit.
Having a child sometimes motivates a young woman to get educated. Young men are a different story. There is a really messed up male culture that tells boys they must drink, play sports, ignore school, dominate women, etc. to be considered a real man. I encountered this in early el. last year when I taught at a charter school. I also met up with some kids who had no respect for teachers based on the salaries they made. And wherever there is a drug culture, there are people ready to teach kids that you're a chump if you're working at Mickey D's instead of selling dope. I think there needs to be a lot more mentoring of kids, especially males. I know my feminist friends will cringe when they see this.

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