Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » The Broderick Tower Construction « Previous Next »
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Izzyindetroit
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Username: Izzyindetroit

Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are they working on this building?? I know that they have plans for it but I figured they fell through or something. I was just there last week looking around and it didn't seem like they were doing anything with it. I did notice today that there was scaffolding (sp) placed up along the sidewalk.

I wasn't sure if that was for the building or the DPM.

Anyone with a clue?
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Gotdetroit
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Username: Gotdetroit

Post Number: 196
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last time the scaffolding was there was to protect innocent pedestrians from that shithole falling on their heads.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell you the project is a go. Just like they have for the last 3 years or so.

The douchebag that owns that building should be fined on a daily basis...or relinquish control.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 957
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I talked with an assistant of Higgens. The assistant said that they HAVE paid for architectural renders from Kramer, and have done all the prelim work... "all" that was left was securing the construction loan... The goal is to make it apartments for 5 years, then sell lofts.

Fishy part was:

The assistant said that the total cost of renovation would be $40 million... Uh... seems low. But he said it was accurate because the building was narrow and structurally sound. Could be right. Let's hope!
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Udmphikapbob
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Username: Udmphikapbob

Post Number: 618
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"All that's left" is to get the money? Awesome!

That's all that's left for me to complete my dream of retiring to St. Lucia, too. I have lots of plans and pictures...just need $40 million and I'm set.
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Mwilbert
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Username: Mwilbert

Post Number: 321
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not having $40 million dollars is a bit of a problem, but at least they are sensible enough to realize it has to start out as apartments.
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Enduro
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Username: Enduro

Post Number: 137
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 12:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was leaving work about a week before the protection went (back) up and there was a good sized chunk (bigger than a dinner plate and much thicker) of concrete had crashed down from about 2 1/2 stories up. If the upstairs is anything like the first floor bar and the outside than they're going to need more than 40 million.
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Mbshan
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Username: Mbshan

Post Number: 33
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I ran through the scaffolding today and I'll say this. If that piece of concrete falls from any further up, that piece of press board that they are using as a roof over the scaffolding is not going to save anyone!! yikes!
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Beantown
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Username: Beantown

Post Number: 73
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andylinn - Kraemer did the prelim design work three or four years ago. Absolutely nothing has happened with the building in all that time. Higgens is likely just trying to bide his time (while minimizing fines) until the rest of the city is revitalized while he sits on his ass, in order to sell a completely abandoned building for less than he bought it for. In essence, have money - do nothing - wait while someone else participates in a community - profit from it.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 1117
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A know a prominent real estate guy who had the opportunity to purchase the building a few years ago for the grand total of $1 million. Despite the allure of being able to purchase a 34 story building in the middle of a downtown of a major American city for such a small price, none of the facts suggested they could feasibly make money on the project. Sad reality of today's Detroit
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401don
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Username: 401don

Post Number: 697
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 8:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A little scaffolding and a "Condos Coming Soon" sign and visitors are instantly impressed. It worked with awnings, right?
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 1160
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ever since the city and the Historic District Commission allowed an out of state advertising sign company and Mr. Higgins to unconditionally display the multi-story advertising banner, the building has had a pretty handsome positive cash flow for a real estate asset that doesn't have a single paying tenant. The sign generates tens of thousands of dollars per month for the building owners.

A couple of years ago, debts owed by Mr. Higgins related to the building included a couple of hundred thousand dollars to either the Detroit Investment Fund or the DDA, six figures in back property taxes, and a high five figure outstanding balance owed to a couple of local architecture firms. One wonders if anybody has gotten paid.

As for the building not getting restored, it's a little hard to complain given that no project of that scope has been completed anywhere in the region in the last two years save for a handful of garden apartment complexes plopped onto greenfields in the exurbs.
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Gotdetroit
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Username: Gotdetroit

Post Number: 197
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"As for the building not getting restored, it's a little hard to complain given that no project of that scope has been completed anywhere in the region in the last two years save for a handful of garden apartment complexes plopped onto greenfields in the exurbs."

Yes, because the (almost completed) Book-Cadillac project is a mirage and hoax.
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Youngprofessionaldetroiter
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Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 118
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm having a hard time sorting out what is speculation and what is fact. Does anyone have any sourceable, reliable information on this project? Anyone with contacts at DEGC or with the develop, or with the bank doing the financing?

As someone in the financial industry, I know that almost all the banks have had to to become tighter with lending, especially construction lending, until there's more stability in real estate values. (Note, I didn't say until they rebound...just that they stablize). Construction lending is really tricky because the banks are taking as a collateral an incomplete building. So they've had to stiffen their requirements for credit far more than they were 10 years ago.

That being said, I'd be curious about this building, as I know that tons of Wayne med and law students would love to live there.

I sincerely doubt that the developer bought this place just to hang a revenue producing advertisment and let it sit vacant on purpose. There's way more money to be made in far less risky ventures than buying a vacant building and let it sit in the middle of Detroit.

YPD
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 1122
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

then you dont know shit about Michael Higgins. No bank will lend the money. thats the problem - financing
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Youngprofessionaldetroiter
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Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 119
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SOD, enlighten me...problem with the project? or problem with Higgins? I "don't know shit" about him. So fill me in.

YPD
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 1124
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Problem with the project? Yes, he cannot secure financing, though he seemingly hasn't tried too hard. He owns a number of abandoned buildings (Farwell) and a few darn near close to it - like the Leland Hotel. The city has never enforced blight codes against him, despite the fact that he hasn't done much of anything with anything he owns.

Whenever the city considers fining him, he claims he is preparing to redevelop. Never happens

He lied to the commission and city council re: the whale mural/Verizon ad, stating that it was necessary to have those funds to continue renovation, and that the money earned would go directly towards the renovation. Obviously, that has not happened.
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Youngprofessionaldetroiter
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Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 121
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Got it. Thanks. Any bankers know what the hurdles are on financing? The BC financing was a crazy conglomeration of multiple investors with various unique needs from all over the country. Somehow they pulled that through. Bankers don't make anything if they don't lend anything...is this project simply unfeasible?


YPD
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 1125
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Parking was originally an issue, but the latest agreement was to access the Grand Circus Park underground garage.
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 1162
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

"As for the building not getting restored, it's a little hard to complain given that no project of that scope has been completed anywhere in the region in the last two years save for a handful of garden apartment complexes plopped onto greenfields in the exurbs."

Yes, because the (almost completed) Book-Cadillac project is a mirage and hoax.

The Book Cadillac had its very complicated financing package wrapped up for quite some time before the latest Broderick Tower redevelopment effort with JC Beal Construction on board was begun. The whole downtown residential landscape has changed since then, along with the economy and the mortgage meltdown. Since then, large announced downtown residential projects that have been non-starters include 1001 Woodward, The Griswold, and Cadillac Place, not to mention a couple of smaller projects on Woodward. Comparing the Book Cadillac and Broderick Tower is apples and oranges.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 1376
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I legally got into the Broderick Tower about two weeks ago if anyone wants to see what the insides look like:

http://s215.photobucket.com/al bums/cc280/buildingsofdetroit/ Broderick%20Tower%20-%2007-25- 08/

I agree with Andylinn's assessment: $40 million seems waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low.

(Message edited by rhymeswithrawk on August 04, 2008)
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Riley484
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Username: Riley484

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's so sad that the city allows a beautiful building like that to just sit in that state. It has such great potential.
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 1052
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Word on the street very little is getting financed, even if you have good credit. It's the national market - has little to do with Detroit. Swingline is right - personally, I don't expect anything to get started in a large way (small, self-funded projects may continue) until the banks start lending again. That would also apply to a new Rock Financial headquarters... not that it won't happen, but you're going to probably need to wait until after the meltdown is done.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1339
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$40,000,000!?

How many corners are they planning to cut? It reminds me of the movie "Towering Inferno" (I think that is the name).


Now for a rare pessimistic moment for me.

Concerning financing and the melt down; I think we will be seeing a few more buildings close in the near future. The Book Tower, Wayne County Building, the Arcade Bar Building, and a couple storefronts in Greektown are already heading the list of casualties. 211, 150 W. Jefferson, Stott Tower, the entire Penobscot complex, and many more are at a dangerously low level of occupancy. Residential space is worse. Some are saying here that there is a infinite demand for apartments. I don't see it. Park Apartments, The Leeland, Town Apartments, Fyfe, and tons others in Midtown are at dangerously low occupancy levels.

I know, Ya... I'm happy about the Book-Cadillac, Fort-Shelby, four new casinos, and the transit center too. However, I do wounder if the market is big enough for all these hotels. You also have an odd number of stalled projects for reasons other than money (Ala Vinton and Twelve-25). How are some of those other Financial District office towers doing (Dime, Ford, Buhl, Comerica Tower, and Guardian)? How about some of the other CBD apartment buildings? Many of the apartments I mentioned above have no more than a couple floors being used.

Then you have the rest of the city, and New Center. Oh, and I'm not even touching how many vacant and scrapped houses will be left at the end of all these foreclosures (anyone know how are housing market is doing in these troubled times?).

Right now, we are approaching a time where we should be doing is playing defense. Defense against a lot of things, but centered on a strategy to keep not only our urban areas afloat (Financial District, Greektown, Campus Martius, etc.), but also try to keep the hurting neighborhoods safe from vandals, arsonists, scrappers, and blight in general. Basically, we need to put resources on maintaining all the hard work that has been done. It'll be tough, and the naysayers will be numerous. We all will really have to be able to not fall victim to their beliefs and our own frustration, because in all honesty, it may look like they are right for a little while. I think if we can stay afloat, and get ready for the next episode of opportunity... the next high point, we'll be fine.

Actually, I think it's part of a natural cycle. Not just a economic cycle (that we knew was coming), but also a experience cycle. These are the times to buy, and the times to start (or at least plan) new ventures. Urban Bean Co. and GGGP Crepe stand have it right. It will be people like them pulling through. This is in part because of the opportunities suddenly available. Not just cheap real estate, but also a lack of competition from giant corporations. Large corporations are usually not models of efficiency. They compete by wasting money and resources. I really think you'll see David beat Goliath many times in the next couple years. Small businesses are faster and more efficient.

Some of you guys who "hate" the large corporations and Walmarts of the world should be happy. This cycle is one reason capitalism works (with some errors to work out). This is the part where only the strongest survive (applies to small businesses too). Detroit has always been a crazy environment to own a business or live. If you can learn to keep your head up here... you can do it anywhere. It may get worse, but you just have to believe Detroit 2.0 really is right around the corner. It is right around the corner if we really want it to be.

Are there even any other previously announced projects on the table, after The Fort-Shelby's completion? When is the Watermark due for completion? Oh, and Pepper's Shoes and the Elliott Building (and a few others on Woodward)is still moving forward. Although, they just started recently, so who knows. BC restarted how many times? LOL. Do you think that these new apartments will over saturate the market?


Now Quickens move is interesting. I think it has some substance. They do keep assuring everyone that it is still a go. One reason could very well be that the move, consolidation of employees, super efficient new building, and proximity to resources and customers may actually save them a lot of money. Banks still are lending, they are just more strict. I could imagine that Quicken and others could have sold them on this one. Plus, I think the others moving there has some affect. Did Mr. Gilbert ever mention Quicken taking out a loan? They could have played it right, and be pooling funds with others. Don't laugh. It is a practice that minimizes risk, interest, and other issues. There are people going around buying homes up with plain cash on hand. LOL, Cedar Point has paid for ALL of it's rides and roller coasters from savings also (last years new ride builds tomorrows new ride. If the ride is a flop, they will put large projects off until the last one has paid for itself). I am always in awe at their city sized properties that are run like a well oiled machine (lately they've been slacking though). I especially like that they don't announce there projects until they're near completion. If it is cancelled, well that's fine, because no one ever new about it.

Why can't Detroit seem to do that?
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1457
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 9:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Swingline, Cadillac Place is the old GM Building. Cadillac Centre is the announced development on the Monroe Block.
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Gotdetroit
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Username: Gotdetroit

Post Number: 199
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Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Digital: "Word on the street very little is getting financed, even if you have good credit. It's the national market - has little to do with Detroit. Swingline is right - personally, I don't expect anything to get started in a large way (small, self-funded projects may continue) until the banks start lending again. That would also apply to a new Rock Financial headquarters... not that it won't happen, but you're going to probably need to wait until after the meltdown is done."

Take a drive on the loop around Chicago. While stuck in traffic, count the number of cranes you see for new construction downtown (I saw 10)....then reread what you said. It has ALOT to do with Detroit. Lenders will lend money where they feel comfortable. As for Higgins, I wouldn't lend that douche a nickle.
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 506
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Will the last one out please close the windows? It'll help keep renovation costs down if there isn't significant water damage...
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Wazootyman
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Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 381
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you sure about some of your occupancy figures and impending doom for some of the CBD buildings?

According to their website, 150 W. Jefferson looks to be roughly at least 80% occupied?

http://www.150westjefferson.co m/availability.asp

Assuming by "211" you mean 211 W. Fort, that building was said to have 84% occupancy as of 02/08.

http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/211wfort13208.asp x

The Penobscot had about 65% occupancy as of 08/07, but I don't know if that has changed. I also do not know at what threshold an occupancy level becomes "dangerous".

http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/univision10507.as px

Where are your figures for the apartment occupancy? I'm challenging some of your figures, but also curious.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 1133
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Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He is wrong on a number of the buildings, specifically those you mentioned. The Penobscot seems to hover around 50-60% which is troubling.

He doesn't know the occupancy of any buildings downtown.

My numbers are a year old but they were completely accurate at the time, and I would think haven't changed too drastically:
Penobscot - 65
Guardian - 60
Buhl - 85
Cadillac Tower - 78
1st National - 65
Ford - 70
211 - 85
150 W. Jefferson - 80
Fort Washington - 80
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1340
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No... that is mostly what I had. It's more than just occupancy rates that matter... unfortunately. There is a lot more to it than just looking at numbers. How are the tenants doing? How is the unemployment rate? How are the building owner's doing? How much competition is out there? How much competition is coming in the near future? What type of marketing is being utilized? Are marketing campaigns proving successful?

Many, many factors to consider.

211 was doing worse, however, they are in the middle of a pretty crazy marketing campaign, aren't they? So hopefully they are doing better.

As for apartment occupancy... go walk around the buildings! There nearly empty! Granted it has been a little while... It's one of those things where we'll know soon enough. It's what I see. Since you brought up numbers, I have never seen any numbers suggesting their is a market for all these apartments and condos either. Well, not in a while at least. You probably should take either view with a grain of salt.

I'd be very interested to read other people's opinions, and reasons why they see things differently. Am I being realistic? Maybe it's not really that bad, and I am just being paranoid?

LOL, hopefully your right, and everything is still peaches. Maybe I'm just having one of those days (or weeks in this case).
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1341
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Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh... from memory, isn't the Guardian actually doing okay now? I swear someone just moved there. I'll have to do a search.

Also, does anyone know if the Book Tower's tenants moved elsewhere in the CBD?

(The point of those posts was not to say the end is near... but rather to point out some things to watch. LOL, one thing I am 285% sure I am not, is a psychic... Although, come to think of it, I've heard good things about the one operating in Greektown :-) )

(Message edited by Sean_of_Detroit on August 04, 2008)
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Spiritofdetroit
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Post Number: 1134
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Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Guardian was in the midst of luring a number of tenants when I got my information. They took occupancy from a dismal 6% all the way up to 50% at the time.
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Gistok
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Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sean, several of the Book tenants moved to the Michigan Building, which has a higher occupancy rate that the buildings just listed.

Spiritofdetroit, that 6% must have been when DTE moved the former MichCon tenants to Edison Plaza (DTE HQ). Practically the only thing left in the Guardian Building at the time were the SmithGroup, the original architects of the building.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

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Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was going to be apartments, then with the success of Book Caddy back to condos but now with the market in a tank back to apartments/retail office. The developers are playing wishful thinking, believing they can get 70% occupancy at top rental rates in less than a year.
I would estimate the rehab to be at least
85 million. Broderick to be totally gutted then totally put back together. Not cheap.
Beal sure can't get financing for it.
Problem IS financing to get it built and tenants/owners to pay for it. I think Deutsche Bank was in on it but backed out for some reason, hmmm. Maybe their underwriters visited and took a good look around, crunched some numbers and said not now.
I believe a mixed finance bag like the B/C for Brownfield credits, historic credits, Michigan credits, FHA HUD unameit extra credit, debits and credits etc.

Then there is a very unpredictable Detroit phenomenon, called the Kwame factor.
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Raptor56
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Post Number: 405
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Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And by "somebody" moving into the Guardian, he's referring the recent purchase of the building by Wayne County. I suppose that "might" boost the building's occupancy rate....
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 1148
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raptor-

The Guardian was 46% filled at the time of the purchase by Wayne County, and all tenants were to stay. The move was expected to fill up most of the remaining space. So, today, I imagine the building is near capacity.
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Raptor56
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Username: Raptor56

Post Number: 409
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Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know. I was carying on the previous poster's sarcasm...
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401don
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Username: 401don

Post Number: 715
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Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So far the Kales is the only other recent highrise rental rehab. The Shelby Hotel apts. will come on-line late next yr. and should be comparable (with a poorer location). I imagine how quickly they rent might be a factor in financing for others like the Broderick.
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Mdoyle
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Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I still dont understand why there is such a lack of rental properties in the CBD. Many of the building owners holding off for the big dollar ground floor retail tenants could make money much more quickly by doing a cheap rehab of the upper floors and renting small to moderate sized apartments for an affordable rate. Do building owners not see that this would make them the money in the interim? The city can't leapfrog from a complete shell to high end loft/condos without first growing some sort of residential base. A large residential base of apartment dwellers need the amenities that would bring in retail at the ground floor. The Kales and Fyfe both have high occupancy rates.
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Crawford
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Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^There are relatively few rental properties because there is relatively little demand.

Call Trolley Plaza or Millender Center, and you will have your pick of apartments, in every size, floor and view.

Why would people create new apartments in old buildings when the existing apartments are half-empty? It makes no sense. The only projects that go forward (Book Cadillac is the most prominent example) only work financially because of huge subsidies.

B-C would still be rotting if not for big-time public dollars, because it makes no sense to create new hotel rooms and apartments when both markets are glutted.
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Swingline
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Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I would estimate the rehab to be at least
85 million. Broderick to be totally gutted then totally put back together. Not cheap.

Whoa, you're flying a little too high there, Lefty. The Broderick only contains approx. 190K ft. sq. including common areas and lower retail floors. $200 sq. ft. is a good round number that would be on the high end for the cost of a rehab of this magnitude. But even at that rate, you still only have a project cost of $38 million. If the building ever gets restored, it certainly will costs tens of millions, but it won't be $85 million. That's a Manhattan number.
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Lefty2
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Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^right, I don't know how my number got thrown off. I guess about $20. psf for demo and $200 psf for rehab, new elevator, all electric plumbing, mechanical etc.

It might get built in 3-5 years when the economy picks up strong again.

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