Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » Merrill Fountain Moving Back To Downtown? « Previous Next »
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 7182
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 12:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've often mentioned (ad nauseum) that some monuments in Detroit are beautiful, but in a bad location. The Hurlbut Gate at Water Works Park, and Merrill Fountain in Palmer Park were 2 examples.

Well I was at a PW theatre tour guide meeting at the Detroit Opera House this evening, and one of our perks is we get to see what's new at the Detroit Opera House.

On the Broadway side of the building there is a brand new media center on the 4th floor that houses all the books, recordings and all other items from over 100 years of Opera in Detroit... these were all in the process of being digitalized.

That's when I mentioned to a DOH director... "yeah, now too bad they can't get the Merrill Fountain back in front of the Opera House like it used to be at the old Opera House on Campus Martius".

Well his eyes lit up and he confessed that the Detroit Opera House, Chuck Forbes and the Detroit Athletic Club were working together to possibly do just that...

Namely to dismantle the nearly decrepit Merrill Fountain, which is currently located in Palmer Park and hasn't worked in over half a century. It currently weed choked and in disrepair.

The idea is to relocate it to somewhere along the Madison Ave. boulevard median (if it's wide enough), or perhaps where Madison Ave. terminates at/in Grand Circus Park.

Supposedly this is in the discussion stages, but wouldn't it be wonderful to get that beautiful Beaux Arts fountain back downtown and working again!

Fountain donor Lizzie Merrill Palmer would be smiling in her grave... :-)

Anyone have any good pics of it?
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Broken_main
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Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 1545
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would definitely be great for it to come back downtown.
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Pkbroch
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Username: Pkbroch

Post Number: 55
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/ i/image/image-idx?c=vmc;page=index

This is the website for Wayne State Virtual Library. Just type in Palmer Park, there are several great pix of the fountain.

It should be moved. It is rotting away in Palmer Park.
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Silverbeauty
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Username: Silverbeauty

Post Number: 49
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 6:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

here is a link to a good picture

http://www.detroit1701.org/Mer rill%20Fountain.html
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 1135
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 7:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

great idea. this fountain definitely needs to be saved. glad some people are looking into it.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 1391
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That would be amazing. Simply amazing. One can only hope they turn that schitt on.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 2045
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)








LOC/DPC
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1956
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Would it make more sense to build a replica instead of putting all that money into preservation, transportation, reinstall, and repair?
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Strathcona
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Username: Strathcona

Post Number: 48
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

NO--I would like to see you find those materials. Today this fountain would be made out of cement covered Styrofoam. Sorry, history speaks for itself and it should go back downtown.
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Mbr
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Username: Mbr

Post Number: 420
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aerial:

http://maps.live.com/default.a spx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=r233rq8 26qyb&style=b&lvl=2&tilt=-90&d ir=0&alt=-1000&scene=5629594&p hx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

Would they put it in the median on Madison? I don't know where else it would fit.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1957
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"NO--I would like to see you find those materials. Today this fountain would be made out of cement covered Styrofoam. Sorry, history speaks for itself and it should go back downtown."

Should this be a city financed project? What would we put in place of the fountain @ Palmer Park? We talk about how much emphasis is put on downtown, now we want something taken from a hood (working or not) and putting it BACK downtown?
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Masterblaster
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Username: Masterblaster

Post Number: 197
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I TOTALLY concur with Viziondetroit. Why can't the Merrill Fountain be the centerpiece of a revitalized, renovated Palmer Park? Why does everything have to be downtown?

Wouldn't it be grand if the Merrill Fountain was THE landmark of Palmer Park, like the Scott Fountain is the landmark for Belle Isle?

So many neighborhood landmarks, like the Grande Ballroom, Easttown Theater, Kronk Gym, etc. have fallen into dispair or disuse! Let's reverse that trend for once! Downtown has enough statues and fountains!
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 2299
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are no plans to revitalize Palmer Park any time soon. The folks involved with the potential move of the Merrill Fountain that Gistok speaks of know that this will have to be a privately financed moved. They're the sort of people that can round up that sort of money quite easily.

The question is do you let the fountain continue to rot in Palmer Park where there are no plans for it to be restored or put back into the use it was intended for, or do you get a jewel of Detroit restored and put into use for all to see. I'll go with the later.
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Pkbroch
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Username: Pkbroch

Post Number: 58
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 1:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The landmark of Palmer Park was the Palmer's Log Cabin,(rotting and falling down, The Little Lighthouse on the island in the skating lagoon, (Rotting and Falling down)The cascades now gone. The swimming pool closed. The forestry branch closed. At Least the grass is cut.

Put the fountain back downtown where it came from and belongs and where the lady who gave it to the city meant it to be.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 1960
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 1:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The swimming pool is still open, my children went last week.
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 514
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 2:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1 Nobody teaches the artistry that created this fountain anymore.

2. To reproduce it identically would be cost-prohibitive.

3. Aren't there enough "fakes" in cities today?

4. This fountain is a source of pride. Move it and use it!
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 7187
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the Merrill Fountain did get moved to Madison Ave. (assuming the boulevard is wide enough), I think the best location would be at Randolph. That is where Madison Ave. goes from being a 4 lane street to a 6 lane boulevard (it makes a slight twist to the right at Randolph).

Having it right where the boulevard part of Madison Ave. starts, makes it visible from the Madison Freeway exit (after the curve).

It could be the eastern gateway into the Entertainment district, and would be very close to the DAC, the Gem/Century, Music Hall and extremely close to Harmonie Park.

Several of these venues often have wedding receptions, and this fountain would make a nice photo op for newlyweds and their entourage.

As for the part of Madison Ave. closer to GCP and the Opera House, they should move the Thaddeus Kosiousko statue (the roadside ornament on a concrete slab at Michigan & Third) to the GCP end of Madison Ave., and put it on a tall plinch, similar to that of the equestrian statue on Belle Isle at the crossroads of Central Ave. & Inselruhe Ave.

Grand Circus Park and Washington Boulevard have their fair share of monuments and fountains, but Madison Ave., the next widest road in the necklace district of downtown after Washington Blvd., does not have anything more ornate that floral landscaping.
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Broken_main
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Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 1552
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 3:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok...agreed

Koskiousco seems like it has always been in the wrong area to me.
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 1377
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 6:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All sounds good.

Here is my question. Does it really costs that much to keep these fountains maintained well enough to have them run daily?

I envision the fountain being relocated with great fanfare and then not working regularly because of piss poor maintenance or our ongoing failure to execute scrappers on site.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 7188
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good question Irish_mafia... at least a location at Madison & Randolph is just a block from 36th District Court, which has a large police presence.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 11977
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Should this be a city financed project?



It should be supported by regional dollars since the entire region can see it and appreciate it. :-)
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Supergay
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Username: Supergay

Post Number: 182
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The fountain is not rotting away. Stone does not rot.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 8031
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TEAR THAT SCHITT DOWN!

And then rebuild it where it belongs.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 7197
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The fountain is not rotting away. Stone does not rot.



I guess some folks just don't get the nuances of a metaphor..

Of course it's not rotting... the lack of maintenance and the damage caused by the freeze-thaw cycle every year has been taking its' toll on the structure... as well as those parts of the fountain that have are missing or stolen (such as the railing on the upper left side)...



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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 11991
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2008 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Stone does not rot.



Someone hasn't seen Sharon Stone in awhile.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2642
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wouldn't make much sense to put the fountain in a road median as the fountain has a back side. It would likely work better along the side of a building for example.
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Exmotowner
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Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 501
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Restore it where ever it is. I vote restore it in PP and get the city to start restoring some of its awesome neighborhoods like Palmer park. But if it takes moving it to its original location to get it restored,(it would be great back in front of the opera house too) I vote move it. Restore it wherever it is.
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 1175
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, August 08, 2008 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with that the best thing would be to restore in Palmer Park. If it is to ne moved it should be in a place where people can enjoy like Harmonie Park not in the middle of the street.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 7201
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I see no problem moving it to where they want if it's in the middle of Madison Ave.

The Bagley Fountain is currently in the middle of Cadilllac Square (middle of the street), and Campus Martius fountain, skating rink and Soldiers & Sailors monument are where... in the middle of the street.

If it were to be moved to the eastern boulevard end of Madison Ave., it wouldn't be more than 200 feet from Harmonie Park.
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 3070
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No - the best idea is to move the fountain AND the opera house back where they were originally. THEN we have to find a place for Compuware. Say, maybe - the Statler hole ?

Seriously, I visited the fountain recently, what a f-ed up neighborhood that is. Ill have pics on my site in the next few days.
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Youngprofessionaldetroiter
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Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 133
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 2:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"All sounds good.

Here is my question. Does it really costs that much to keep these fountains maintained well enough to have them run daily?

I envision the fountain being relocated with great fanfare and then not working regularly because of piss poor maintenance or our ongoing failure to execute scrappers on site."

The DAC and The DOH would enjoy great benefit from the fountain, which, btw, is ridiculously gorgeous. It's likely that their members and patrons will foot a big portion of the bill for both the transportation, restoration, operation, and maintenance of the fountain.

Which, of course, is nice, because since both of those entities bring in a lot of revenue from out side the city limits, it would be a way to beautify the city without an expense to the city budget. This is all speculation. I know nothing...except for the fact that in this specific case, "privatization" might be to the greater good of this fountain.

YPD

p.s. disclaimer: I frequent the DAC, Harmonie Park, and the DOH and have a biased interest in seeing the incredibly gorgeous fountain restored to its former glory on Madison. But if you want in PP, I'd love to see it on there, too.

(Message edited by youngprofessionaldetroiter on August 09, 2008)
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 3071
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 7:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"former glory on Madison"

Twas never on Madison !

The fountain is from Woodward Avenue at Campus Martius. So was the real Opera House, although the two have nothing to do with one another other than original proximity.

Then it was only there for about 25 years, they moved it to PP in the late 1920's. I think it has been in PP longer than anywhere downtown, and should stay there.

Poor fountain.
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Youngprofessionaldetroiter
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Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 134
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 09, 2008 - 9:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't understand...why would you rather have the fountain sit idling in PP rather than fixed anywhere else? If the residents of Indian Village want to pitch in money to fix the thing, I'd say "let em have it!"

YPD

p.s. My fault...misplaced modifier. Meant to say "incredibly gorgeous fountain restored on Madison to its former glory". Didn't mean to imply that that it was ever on Madison.
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 3087
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2008 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I admit that it should go hand in hand with helping that entire neighborhood. It needs a police sub station, some infrastructure work, maybe some grants for the historic apartment district.

Heres photos of the fountain from last week:

http://www.detroitfunk.com/200 8/08/merrill_fountain.html

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