  Jim Member Username: Jim Post Number: 985 Registered: 10-2003 |
How about charging $1,000 to enter the zoo? Would that make it self-sufficient, or should we just keep thinking that a zoo or a library or a park are not critical pieces of any community even though every citizen does not use them. Every citizen does not readily use every road, the services of a fire department or the police department, why should those be paid for. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1381 Registered: 11-2005 |
Mcp001: Giver108 said in an earlier post on this thread that he planned to vote no because the zoo did not support dove hunting. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 728 Registered: 04-2006 |
How many of you DY’ers are in favor of seceding from the state to form a new state called Southeast Michigan? Since Lansing is broke anyway and has no money, we could just raise all our own taxes to pay roads, education, mass transit and everything else. This would end Lansing telling us to raise local taxes to replace state funding. | ||
Wakeupdetroit Member Username: Wakeupdetroit Post Number: 36 Registered: 02-2008 |
I've a question for you all. Where was the concern for saving the Belle Isle Zoo? The citizens of Detroit(including some suburbanites)didn't want the zoo or the aquarium closed. The Detroit City Council(the colossal joke that they are)demanded that the Belle Isle Zoo&Aquarium remain open. Mr.Keegan in his infinite wisdom decided he knew better and closed them nontheless.Voters were asked whether or not the Belle Isle Zoo should be reopened. We said a resounding "YES". Mr.Keegan decided to go against the vote and the will of the people(again because he knows what's best for all of us)and refused to reopen either facility! To this day The Belle Isle Zoo remains closed! I love the zoo. I loved going to the Belle Isle Zoo and have enjoyed going to the Royal Oak Zoo as well. However I can't understand the rationale that one zoo(Belle Isle Zoo)is an expendable mess worthy of being discarded while the other(Royal Oak Zoo)is a gem that must be protected,guarded,and preserved at any and all cost. I won't support this or any other measure for the Royal Oak Zoo(which is what it should be called IMO). No regard was shown whatsoever for the citizens and noncitizens that enjoyed and utilized the Belle Isle Zoo and Aquarium. We were told that we didn't matter when it came to the big picture of progress and prestige. If The Royal Oak Zoo is so important to Mr.Keegan and fellow supporters of the Zoo then let them get their monies up and offer Detroit a fair and just price for the property! The proceeds(if not squandered by the next group of thieves/thugs/crooks to take office in this city  )could be used to build a zoo here in the city limits. JMO | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 192 Registered: 01-2004 |
I know it's not the same, but a zoo did reopen on Belle Isle...the Belle Isle Nature Zoo. I know where youre coming from, and I was disappointed when I heard that the old Belle Isle Zoo wasnt being reopened. It looks & feels like a redone Nature Center, but they technically did open a zoo on Belle Isle. http://www.detroitzoo.org/Visi tors/Nature_Center/Belle_Isle_ Nature_Zoo/ | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1923 Registered: 11-2003 |
I dont have any kids in K-12, but I vote yes on the local school millages. I dont go to the Zoo a lot, but I will vote yes for that, also. Part of it is a selfish property and community value thing and part of it is wanting kids to have the opportunities here. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 7574 Registered: 02-2004 |
Mcp001, A No vote would cause the zoo to close if they didn't have more funding. But more state funding will help keep the zoo open for a long time before any more benefactors come with some cash. LET'S SAVE THE ZOO EVERYONE. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 189 Registered: 01-2007 |
The zoo is something that has provided entertainment, education and much more for many people including children over the year. Our zoo is one of the more highly regarded zoos in the United States. To lose it, when our state has lost so much over the past 5-10 years, would be a shame. I do agree that it's absurd to have Kwame's name on the tower, but in the end, there are much bigger issues to be concerned about. Plus, the mayors name has been on the zoo tower for as long as I can remember, it's not like Kwame himself ordered that it be put up there. I rarely vote in primaries but this is too important. I will be voting yes. | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 660 Registered: 05-2006 |
I'll tell you why Belle Isle Zoo unfortunately didn't make it, (which I find a shame) and why people are more concerned about the Detroit Zoo- is simply two reasons, 1) the Detroit Zoo is larger, has more exhibits, and is in easier access than Belle Isle Zoo for the majority of visitors, and 2) Unfortunately Belle Isle Zoo is something that is seen as being a political hot potato in the City of Detroit and wether real or imagined, the city's image of corruption at many levels prevented many people from wanting to save it, as they feel they are sinking money into something their funds may not necessarily be used appropriately for. In other words, people feel the city is corrupt, and the Zoo fell victim to it. Another fallout from Kwamme? He certainly did not help. So please, the misplaced anger toward the suburbs and blaming racism advances the cause nowhere. The real culprit is that people (and this goes on a wide range of issues far beyond the Zoo, simply don't trust the politicians in Detroit, for some very real reasons, and they they feel they have zero control on the affairs in the city. I have said it before, and will say it again, issues of segregation, and general betterment of the city and region as a whole will not improve until the corruption is cleaned up. Local politicians use the divide and conquer effectively to prop up their financial and personal interest, voters fall into this trap time, and time again. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 1512 Registered: 01-2007 |
Vote NO. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11968 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: How did the arts tax do? The city does not run any of the places that were supported on that initiative but it went down in flames. Geography is what will get this to pass and I will not support that mentality. If the region can't see the DIA with priceless art as a 'jewel' then I can't find a way to see that the zoo is a 'jewel' worth my support. I will concede that the proposal for arts funding was poorly thought out but if there was a ballot initiative to support the DIA, DHM, CHWMAAH, etc it would fail miserably. You know it, I know it and I feel I have to vote in kind based upon geography. if the zoo was located at the fairgrounds I can assure you that MC and OC would not allocate money to advertise their support. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3277 Registered: 09-2007 |
Oh boy, I feel a city/suburb argument brewing. | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 661 Registered: 05-2006 |
"Oh boy, I feel a city/suburb argument brewing." -I don't there has been some good dialog here, and JT1 brings up some good points and valid feelings. - I agree about about the arts funding, and indeed the DIA and other institutions are worthy-and feel places like the DIA contribute a lot to the region as a whole no disagreement there, but I disagree about the difference in the arts verses the zoo funding and why the arts funding failed. This following comment may sound like it is coming from a simpleton, but in the eyes of the average voter, the zoo tax is something real and tangible, and easily connected with nostalgia and childhood memories, whereas what exactly the "Arts Tax" was, seemed a little abstract (I know bad pun), and it was perhaps difficult for the average voter to define what they would get from such a thing, let alone place a monetary value on it and then to make matters worse, the arts in general, get a bad rap as being something for elitist, etc, which brings in cultural issues, which are beyond the scope of this conversation. I personally am of the opinion all of these institutions are worthy of funding, irrespective of geography, and feel less of our tax dollars could should be spent on wasteful BS, such as all the Homeland/Border patrol vehicles I see driving around Detroit doing nothing but pissing away gas, and then seeing a Detroit Fire Dept. Crew, let a building burn to the ground because they did not have enough water pressure from hydrants, to extinguish the blaze, and I thought, how ironic: Here we are worried about security, when in reality if an attack occurred, we could not even put out a fire. I'm voting Yes on the zoo because, I like and support the zoo, as I do other institutions. Is it unfortunate other places should have been saved? Absolutely, but I am not going to take that out on the animals, and people who like the zoo. I'll take it out on worthless politicians that let it happen in the first place. Just think the Belle Isle Zoo and Aquarium would probably be open today with the difference in money people have been free- loading as city employees with "Free" gas from the city, Kwame's legal bills to the city ($8.4 Million), or L. Brooks Paterson's bar tabs over the years :-) Support the zoo animals yes, political animals that let the situation occur in the first place: no. | ||
Popcanman55 Member Username: Popcanman55 Post Number: 15 Registered: 08-2006 |
Vote No The Detroit Zoo does not allow Leader Dogs in training in. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 7577 Registered: 02-2004 |
Lots of people are going to vote YES to save the zoo. | ||
Ja1mz Member Username: Ja1mz Post Number: 129 Registered: 02-2007 |
I'm voting no | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 732 Registered: 04-2006 |
Danny, Voting YES will not save the zoo. The city of Detroit and our state government are the one's who should pay. But, why Danny? You must really like Kwame? After all he was the one who got rid of SMART in Livonia with the DARTA agreement and not the Livonia residents. Danny, you think Livonia is racist but it is not and it was Kwame who ran the late buses and he did not care about SMART. First DY'ers let's remove Kwame's name from the zoo. Or, y'all should not just vote NO but HELL NO. | ||
Faygoredpop Member Username: Faygoredpop Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2008 |
I have read everyone voice their concerns here as to why they would vote Yes or No for our Zoo, but for everyone voting No, if the millage does not pass and the Zoo does close I have a question to ask those of you who have children: What would you say to your kids when they ask why they can no longer see the animals at the Zoo on field trips? Or better yet as McP001 said: "Once the Zoo Tax fails, people can drive down to Toledo or up to Lansing..." which if the schools do go to either zoo's you will end up paying more for the field trips because of gas going up. Please do not take this away from our kids and as a columnist said in the Detroit News or Free Press this morning that he was going to vote yes because he was hearing others weren't because Kwame's name is on the water tower, he did not want to take it out on the aardvark's. People will miss the zoo if it is not there and maybe a lot of you, who might vote no, might than complain that more and more is going away from the city. What's next, will you vote no on a millage, if there was one for the Detroit Library, DIA, Detroit Historical Museum, Detroit Science Center? | ||
Lodgedodger Member Username: Lodgedodger Post Number: 225 Registered: 05-2008 |
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1923 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 7:35 am: ------------------------------ ------------------------------ -------------------- I dont have any kids in K-12, but I vote yes on the local school millages. I dont go to the Zoo a lot, but I will vote yes for that, also. Part of it is a selfish property and community value thing and part of it is wanting kids to have the opportunities here. ------------------------------ ------------------ No kids in Lodgedodger's house, but we're supporters and *yes* voters, too. I'm with you East_detroit. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11971 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: It was already voted down in the past. | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 1548 Registered: 06-2005 |
After reading a few entries in this thread, I think it would be better if we would just tax stupidity and we would have enough money to run the zoo and reopen Belle Isle. Look at the big picture EXPAT!•• | ||
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus Post Number: 325 Registered: 07-2005 |
Jt1-- I wonder what percentage of DIA members leave outside of the city? How about the symphony or the opera? If 10% of the support of any of those organizations came from people who live in the City I'd be very surprised. If you don't support the Zoo, because it is in the suburbs, you are part of the problem. BTW, I'm not sure what the proposed millage increase was going to be under the former proposals, but I do know that a significant portion of the money was to go to local arts groups (not the museums). | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11972 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: It is not that it is in the suburbs but the fact that it is getting money from the counties for advertising. My question is still why does the zoo get so much attention and places like the DIA don't? I am asking this at a county government level, not an individual level. I am not supporting this on the principal of how county governments choose one institution over another. That is driven by geography. If you are going to accuse me of being part of the problem I suggest that you contact the county government in the area and complain to them as well. The prop to support the arts was poorly written but it does not chaneg the fact that the local counties pick and choose what to support based upon geography. I will choose the same path as they do. Now let's look at what is funded by regional tax dollars: The zoo (after today), HMCA, Cobo (Which local county governments are fighting contined support). What is not: DIA, DHM, CHWMAAH, Belle Isle, State Fairgrounds. Look at the common theme of location and tell me nothing jumps out. My vote is a reaction to the problem in this region, not part of it. | ||
Troy Member Username: Troy Post Number: 249 Registered: 10-2003 |
today my farmington hills co-workers were talking about voting no on the zoo. They stated that they are tired of Detroit screwing up and the suburbs having to bail them out. I informed them that there is an organization that runs the zoo currently and detroit stopped being the main source of funding and control 2 years ago due to this very issue that the zoo was loosing money. They then stated until Kwame's name comes down they feel Detroit controls the zoo and they will not raise their taxes to benefit detroit. These statements are ignorant on so many levels however that is what these people at my work feel who live in Novi, Milford and South Lyon It is going to be tough to pass in my opinion but I believe in taxes to support items that benefit the region even though I do not go to zoos. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 4373 Registered: 11-2005 |
I can't believe people want to attach all this political baggage to the zoo. Don't be a shithead, vote for the zoo. It's a nice zoo. If it closes then we will have to hear more complaints about how our region is so backwards and has nothing to do. | ||
Detmi7mile Member Username: Detmi7mile Post Number: 128 Registered: 12-2007 |
ugh PEOPLE... | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 619 Registered: 10-2005 |
So what happens 10 years from now? The problem I have with this measure is that now, we will inject tax dollars into this and these tax dollars will quickly become part of the operating budget and not a stop gap or short-term remedy to "get the zoo back on it's feet" as a neighbor was pitching it to me. When has a tax EVER been allowed to just expire? When this camel gets its nose under the tent, that is it. Ten years from now the same hand-wringers will be lamenting the impending loss of the zoo if we don't renew and increase the funding. ( and I do understand that Detroit was footing the bill for these many years... I'm not saying that was right either.) Another issue, will this re-open the Belle Isle Zoo or aquarium which are much closer to me and something I would actually use? The Royal Oak Zoo should be supported by Royal Oak residents right? Isn't that the sentiment when the Belle Isle zoo and aquarium closed... if "they" wanted it, "they" could have kept it open by going there. Why does that logic not now apply to the Royal Oak Zoo? If Royal oak and Oakland County "need" a Zoo... well, then figure out how to make it work on memberships, gifts and gate receipts or close it. *thread jack alert* Oh and PS, all those calling D-expat bitter or telling him to "look at the big picture"... What do you expect when you treat a group of people as second class citizens and enshrine that bigotry in your state's constitution? 6 out of ten voters voted for it, our particular ban is one of the most far reaching of the bans, and said ban puts Michigan near the top of anti-gay states. THAT particular issue is far more responsible for our region's cultural backwater reputation than any possible lack of a zoo, museum, or aquarium. So just stifle the "we need a zoo so we don't look stupid" crap. We have loong looked stupid for many other reasons. I've lived here long enough that it should no longer surprise me that there is such a cacophony of angst about the loss of the zoo or a derelict building, but hardly a peep when friends and neighbors have their lives defined by the ignorance and bigotry of the uneducated masses..but it still does. Go out and hug Tiger stadium (or which ever long abandoned wreck is the derelict building du jour) and give 10-20 bucks to the zoo every year for the rest of your lives, but don't try to shame people this region has declared separate and unequal into coming along with you by telling them the must in order to preserve "regional pride" by looking at the "big picture". | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3281 Registered: 09-2007 |
Funny, it's a huge issue trying to pay for the Zoo yet people were willing & ready to donate towards Tiger Stadium. "Another issue, will this re-open the Belle Isle Zoo or aquarium which are much closer to me and something I would actually use? The Royal Oak Zoo should be supported by Royal Oak residents right? Isn't that the sentiment when the Belle Isle zoo and aquarium closed... if "they" wanted it, "they" could have kept it open by going there. Why does that logic not now apply to the Royal Oak Zoo? If Royal oak and Oakland County "need" a Zoo... well, then figure out how to make it work on memberships, gifts and gate receipts or close it." The double-standing mentality in this region amazes me. | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 620 Registered: 10-2005 |
^^ D-rise... it really shouldn't, it's standard...as JT1 has been pointing out all along this thread. If any portion of this "regional" effort supported ANYTHING south of 8 mile, it would have no chance of passing. If Royal Oak and OC want a Zoo... they need to figure out how to fund it. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 191 Registered: 01-2007 |
So, let me see if I have this straight. There are people that are going to vote NO on this because of how other votes have gone in the past, whether it be for supporting the arts or for gay rights or something else altogether that irks them. You know what? Maybe there is validity to being upset about past votes, and maybe voting them down was in fact wrong. But, you know what else? We're not voting on those things right now. We're voting on the zoo. If you vote no out of spite, then that's the wrong reasons. And haven't you ever heard the old saying that two wrongs don't make a right? |
