 
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 3282
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 1:30 pm: |    |
Well Macomb County is north of 8 Mile, but it's not quite like Oakland County.
Yes, there is Warren & Sterling Heights, but they're nothing like Troy & Southfield. MC is more dependent & sympathetic on Detroit, and vice versa.
Oakland County could be its own region. They have everything they need within one county. |
Mbr
Member
Username: Mbr
Post Number: 417
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 1:33 pm: | |
I voted NO for a few simple reasons:
1. I do not think the educational value of caging exotic animals in an unnatural habitat is worth the costs, and public dollars should not be spent to pursue that goal.
2. Although regional cooperation would be a nice thing for a change we have larger priorities at this moment in time. |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 621
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 1:40 pm: | |
Sirealone- The point I was trying to make is that it is quite amazing that people here get all worked up over a zoo, yet have no problem with bigotry. Expat was calling that out and was then told to stfu, sit at the back of the bus, and look at the "big picture".
Ok. well, unfortunately the "big picture" to a lot of people, looks like a bunch of busybodies who are more concerned about field trips for their kids (to "safe" places) and three decade old memories about long empty buildings than living in a progressive and welcoming region.
Not saying it's my particular view, but it's a valid point. |
Sirrealone
Member
Username: Sirrealone
Post Number: 192
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 1:51 pm: | |
I understand that, Higgs1634, but I'm just saying that if you base a vote today on mistakes of the past, it's not going to serve to fix or undo any of those mistakes, and could in fact be another mistake that we look back on 5 years from now. Do we really want a thread in 5 years on this forum talking about the proposals for the zoo land? That would be a sad, sad day. Yet there are people wanting to allow just that to prove a point. |
Beatsworking
Member
Username: Beatsworking
Post Number: 119
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 1:52 pm: | |
It's not a valid point.
In fact it's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard... AND I 100% support (and voted to support) Expat's cause.
It has nothing to do with this.
Vote yes. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 7965
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 2:04 pm: | |
Every other Zoo anywhere near us has a mill at least 3-4 times higher than the one our Zoo is asking for, and that money makes up more of those Zoo's operating costs than ours will.
In other words, our Zoo is closer to supporting itself than any of it's neighbors, but still needs a little help closing the funding gap.
The Toledo Zoo? 1.8 mills.
We're talking about .1 mill. |
Rob_in_warren
Member
Username: Rob_in_warren
Post Number: 123
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 2:17 pm: | |
A yes vote may allow the zoo to eventually take over operations of the Belle Isle aquarium and zoo. The zoo does more than simply show off animals.
Also, a yes vote would give future leverage to Macomb and Wayne County. Oakland County wants their poor neighbors to help save a facility on their land? OC will owe us one. If we want regional cooperation someone will have to give in first. |
Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 6022
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 2:26 pm: | |
x YES |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 7578
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 2:31 pm: | |
Trainman
Be careful of what you have wrote:
1. The Zoo vote MUST be a yes vote, because if don't save the Detroit Zoo. The organization will have to beg like the po'folks in Detroit for endownment money fast or force the close zoo down for good. The Detroit Zoo is our last zoological park in the Metro-Detroit area. I have noticed in the zoo proposal to that 0.1 mills out of $1,000 will be levied from 2008 to 2017 will be up to 5.3 million dollars. Therefore, folks in Wayne Oakland and Macomb County taxpayers will be paying $0.10 to a year CHEAP YAY!
2. If you have reread my post I DO NOT SUPPORT KING KWAME! He's NOT the one who got rid of the SMART busses in Livonia. It's the people of Livonia who really listen to the "WHITES ONLY" Livonia City Council and being presuaded ( by means the EVIL Super-Walmart Supercenter on the Wonderland Village Shopping Center) to vote YES on the opt out so that not only to keep most black workers out of Livonia but to use that $3 million dollars of the capitol improvement money to revitilize the broken down ghetto-like Plymouth Rd. New Downtown district and fix up their nice clean parks and save their hard earned property tax monies.
3. Livonia is racist due to it's bad rep from Livonian neighbors against blacks and Jews and its police force in the racially profilling business.
You trainman have tried very hard to reinstate the SMART busses back to Livonia and trying to persuave folks to vote no the proposed SMART bus tax millage. However you just making your actions seem WORSE. Most of the folks in the Tri-County Area will vote YES on the SMART bus millage and YES for state funding of the Detroit ZOO so give it up and join the political bandwagon. Get the facts straight before you could post your codespeak.
Oh by the the way
1. Carlita Kilpatrick will be State Representative against Many Waters.
2. Warren Evans will become Wayne County Sheriff.
3. Carl Levin ( The guy I met years ago while I was at Washington D.C. ) will become congressman.
4 I hope that the racist folks in Livonia know what they are doing the vote NO the annexation of part of Northville TWP. from Haggarty Rd. from 7 Mile and 6 Mile Rd. If they don't their property tax dollars will go UP UP UP!
Now back to the Detroit Zoo comments. |
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3573
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 6:50 pm: | |
You know, Faygoredpop, it would help if you didn't paraphrase what I had written, just to change my meaning.
Just to refresh your memory, here's what I actually wrote:
quote:Once the Zoo Tax fails, people can drive down to Toledo or up to Lansing if TPTB decide to close down the zoo (which I find highly unlikely), to visit a zoo.
As was pointed out above, this scam was tried years ago.
It failed.
When this tax fails, I see them coming hat in hand to the various county BoC asking for a redo for ("fill-in-the-blank") reason(s).
What galls me is that if funding was really their concern, andsince it's only $10, then those who truly support the Zoo, much like those who support Tiger Stadium, will have no problem opening up their wallets to fork over $24/person for admission to raise the funding needed for their yearly operating budget.
And I didn't even need to touch parking, concessions, etc.
To top things off, if they spent half as much energy pursuing donors as they did with this sappy PR campaign, they'll be set for years to come for funding. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 7978
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 7:48 pm: | |
I highly doubt the tax will fail. But it will all be a moot point in about 15 minutes. America!
quote:To top things off, if they spent half as much energy pursuing donors as they did with this sappy PR campaign, they'll be set for years to come for funding.
They, and many others, work very hard at getting donors. I can attest to this. As I've pointed out, even with the .1 mil funding, the Detroit Zoo will still be more self supporting than any Zoo anywhere near us. And the mil will be 4 times lower than any of theirs.
Toledo Zoo 1.8 mil
Detroit Zoo .1 mil proposed
Everybody is entitled to their opinion though. Mine was recorded at around 5:45 p.m. |
French777
Member
Username: French777
Post Number: 501
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 7:25 am: | |
IT PASSED!!
In your face you NO Voters! |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 7584
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 7:30 am: | |
YAY!
The Detroit Zoo is saved! |
Rb336
Member
Username: Rb336
Post Number: 7154
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 8:16 am: | |
people love the critters |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 1139
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 8:33 am: | |
YAY! MCP must pay more taxes! The citizens have spoken! |
Richard_bak
Member
Username: Richard_bak
Post Number: 191
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 8:45 am: | |
It costs me an extra 10 bucks a year---not even the price of a decent pizza. Worth it to have the gorillas throw shit at me and the grandkids. (Such Kodak memories!) |
Cinderpath
Member
Username: Cinderpath
Post Number: 663
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 10:44 am: | |
MCP001 write: "This tax was tried before several years back (see: Proposal K). It failed.
So don't get your hopes up too much that people will support your tax...especially in a recession. ........
Once the Zoo Tax fails, people can drive down to Toledo or up to Lansing if TPTB decide to close down the zoo (which I find highly unlikely}, to visit a zoo."
-Looks like we (the hundreds of thousands of Detroit Zoo visitors) will be saving the gas and not visiting Toledo or Lansing. As I wrote before- this would pass, I just did not expect it to be an absolute landslide. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 3289
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 10:52 am: | |
^It's bad enough we must drive at least 4 hours to the nearest amusement park.
Why would we torture ourselves even more to visit a Zoo 3 hours away?
Don't forget, school children also visit the Zoo & if Lansing or Toledo are the only alternatives, then that field trip is shot. |
Crystal
Member
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 248
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 11:41 am: | |
Popcanman55, I do not understand why you would suggest a no vote because Leader Dog puppies are not granted access at the zoo. A no vote would do nothing to increase the chance that service dogs in training are granted access in the future.
Our family are (proud) Leader Dog puppy raisers, and work to educate others about the importance of exposure to a wide variety of experiences in the first year of a puppy's life.
There are no laws that grant access to service dogs in training, only to service dogs.
The shops, grocery stores, restaurants, schools, sports and concert venues, farms, parks, and other places that grant access to service dogs in training are valuable partners of Leader Dog.
That said, however, our family has been frustrated that the Detroit Zoo and Henry Ford Museum do not grant access to service dogs in training. We are trying to persuade them to change their policy.
Leader Dog puppy 7223:
|
Richard_bak
Member
Username: Richard_bak
Post Number: 200
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 11:44 am: | |
There's a sweetheart! |
Cynknight
Member
Username: Cynknight
Post Number: 103
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 1:27 pm: | |
Everyone I passed in the parking lot and halls while going to vote yesterday said they were voting yes on the zoo when I asked. Vote "No" because Kwame's on the water tower? Because the Arts tax didn't pass? Because the Belle Isle Zoo closed? Because Leader Dogs in training aren't allowed in? What does that help?
I'm very glad that 7 out of 10 people in each of the three counties chose to cut to the chase and vote on one specific issue - keeping the zoo open and available to people of all ages. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11975
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 1:34 pm: | |
I'll be happy when there is regional support for one thing in the city.
Some of the local regional leaders bitch about supporting COBO becuase it comes from a local hotel (read: not paid by citizens) tax.
Before we sing kumbaya about this being a step towards regionalization let's see how quickly there will be a tax passed to support antyhing within the city limits.
Who wants to guess when that will happen. I will say it will nto happen prior to 2020. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 7999
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 1:39 pm: | |
Technically the Zoo is still on Detroit's property, and Detroit still owns the Zoo. It still has to pay $1.2 million annually in insurance costs. Only the operations were turned over to the DZS.
So I guess you could say the Zoo is "in the city". |
Stromberg2
Member
Username: Stromberg2
Post Number: 97
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 1:40 pm: | |
"IT PASSED!!
In your face you NO Voters!"
You got that right, French777!
Stromberg2 |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11976
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 1:58 pm: | |
JL - fair poitn but I was referring to the physical location of the zoo.
As a side note I am happy that it passed sicne it is beneficial to the region. I just can't support something on a regional basis as long as the 'I won't support it if it is South of 8 mile' mentality is so strong in our region.
Attractions that need regional tax dollars and will never see them approved by Metro Detroit:
Belle Isle (Of course the city is at fault here but even if they managed it properly it would not see support from HMCA or regional tax dollars)
DIA
CHWMAAH
DHM
Rouge Park
Eastern Market
State Fair Grounds.
At the polls regional support for all or any of these would lose. We all know that to be the case.
If the zoo vote was truly a vote for regionalism I would be ecstatic but we all know that it is not. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 8001
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 2:24 pm: | |
The Belle Isle Nature Zoo is ALSO operated by the DZS. Can any of this money be used there? Does anybody know if there is a restriction saying it can't? That would be good to know. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 3293
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 2:26 pm: | |
Jt1, frankly, the entire state of MI should pay a tax for the MSFG (if it were to come about), considering it's technically a statewide attraction. |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 1141
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 2:29 pm: | |
Johnlodge - yep, this money will also be used to run the Belle Isle Nature Zoo. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 8002
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 2:30 pm: | |
That's great news then. And now Jt1 can be happy knowing something in the city limits is also being funded.  |
Spiritofdetroit
Member
Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 1142
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 2:31 pm: | |
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