  Chrissy_snow Member Username: Chrissy_snow Post Number: 51 Registered: 07-2008 |
Kind of piggybacking on that other thread about needing another university in Macomb... In my last Econ class, the prof discussed how the value of the college degree is dropping, because so many people are returning to school to get one, due to the economy. (I'm sure he meant mainly Michigan!) He said that's why you see jobs requiring Masters and higher, because of the number of people rushing back to school to get or finish Bachelors, especially with the online option making it so readily available. Just like anything else, when it was something that not everyone had, it had great value, now everybody's getting one, so we're seeing a shift in the employment trends. It was pretty disconcerting as I'm unemployed and working on an MBA but the jobs I see requiring MBAs are paying what I made when I just had an Associates. So it makes me really think about his statement. All of the auto layoffs are sending people back to school in droves, and just about everybody knows someone going to school online to get their MBA, heck, the ads are everywhere you look (although some aren't legitimate!). Sometimes I truly feel like, why bother? I did make more years ago than I do now, but I keep going because I want to be prepared in case things change again - plus, I have to inspire my kids. But I do wonder.... What do you think? | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 560 Registered: 04-2004 |
I agree with your econ professor. It's another reason why I continued on to grad school instead of getting a job. I felt I could do a bit better as opposed to settling with a job with moderate pay. Getting a masters degree is becoming common. It's definitely "the new bachelor's degree" as everyone says. "but the jobs I see requiring MBAs are paying what I made when I just had an Associates. So it makes me really think about his statement" That is true, but remember that a higher degree can help you move around the company from that position, likely into one with higher pay. | ||
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster Post Number: 151 Registered: 07-2007 |
Yeah, I have my BA and I'm seriously underemployed. So Bush said years ago, "go back to school" so we did, and racked up tens of thousands of dollars worth of student loans, all for shit. So a Master's is now the new bachelor's. So what's next? A doctorate becoming the new bachelor's? Sorry, a functioning economy doesn't consist exclusively of doctors, lawyers, and computer programmers. Wonderful thing, this post-industrial "economy". Good thing all our manufacturing was outsourced. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 229 Registered: 06-2008 |
From what I can tell, your Econ prof is right, but I don't see it as a bad thing. Having more Michiganders that are educated is good for the state and its future. | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 310 Registered: 04-2008 |
Keep on plugging away on that MBA. Hopefully it's as much for personal satisfaction as for professional gain. Even if all it does is keep you running even with 100 other job applicants, I guess it's better than not having one and running behind with 500 other job applicants. Funny you started this thread. All week I have been wrestling with the decision of whether or not to enter an MA program at U-M that really is of no use to me professionally (I've worked for myself for most of the last 17 years), but would be nice to pursue, just to get me out of the house (and off this board). Personal enrichment and all that. But then I think I could better spend my time and money doing something else in the evenings. Oh well, gotta make up my mind in the next few days. In the future everybody will have a doctorate---it'll be the starting point just like a high-school diploma was the starting point for job hires 30 years ago. Then what will people do to differentiate themselves in the job market? Post-post-doctoral work? | ||
Mrsjdaniels Member Username: Mrsjdaniels Post Number: 1186 Registered: 08-2005 |
I have a Master's and haven't been able to break the 50K mark so yes, you def need it but you can also keep your skills updated and find a niche in whatever it is you do. I have added certifications to help me stand apart from my peers. I am a certified event planner and just starting a certificate in non-profit management at Duke. I plan to add a coaching certificate and maybe even go for another Masters or a PhD | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 561 Registered: 04-2004 |
Very much agree, deteamster | ||
Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy Post Number: 96 Registered: 01-2008 |
Turn On....Tune In....Drop Out | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1081 Registered: 05-2007 |
If entrepreneurship is a goal, an appropriate graduate degree will provide an advantage. It is about much more than the (immediate) money. Everyone I know (including those still in Michigan) with a graduate degree, to a person, is measurably better off with it. (Message edited by vetalalumni on August 09, 2008) | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 312 Registered: 04-2008 |
Good to hear, Veta. Encouraging. My daughter's going to grad school next year, overseas, so that helps lift my spirits as the school lifts my wallet. | ||
Hockey_guy Member Username: Hockey_guy Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2007 |
So is this the future for the next generation? One has to have at least a four year degree, usually meaning going $30,000-$40,000 in debt. There should be jobs for everyone that is willing to work hard, but sadly, that's not what it's like. In the future I guess people will start their careers at 30 years old. (Message edited by Hockey_guy on August 09, 2008) | ||
Frankg Member Username: Frankg Post Number: 497 Registered: 08-2007 |
It depends what your degree(s) are in. If you have a BS in nursing, you are set. If you have a PhD in English, good luck. Having said that, though, I do think you need an MBA in a lot of ways, not because you really need the degree but because all the people you are competing against have one. I do not see a future in which PhD's are commonplace. It takes way too many resources to train a PhD. In my opinion, an online PhD isn't worth the paper it is written on. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 8385 Registered: 03-2006 |
Depending on the field you are in, you might be better off investing the 10's of thousands of dollars you would spend on a degree into starting a business or acquiring some assets. Land, stock, whatever. You may find those investments return more over the long haul than what the degree will buy you in the marketplace. In the meantime, getting in on the ground floor of a smaller, dynamic company in a growing sector of the economy could pay dividends. Become a subject matter expert in something and leverage that as much as possible. I have no degree and I make a six figure income. The technology sector is still strong if you have the right skill set. Offshoring is become increasingly less cost effective which is creating more opportunity here. | ||
Chrissy_snow Member Username: Chrissy_snow Post Number: 52 Registered: 07-2008 |
I hope PhDs don't become the new minimum! My student loans are already looming in the distance when I finish next Spring, and I seriously don't want to incur anymore debt, yet, since I'm unemployed right now, the thought of starting to pay them back is pretty chilling too. And I don't know about everyone else, but its really hard to think about and concentrate on school when you're unemployed. I know people say its hard to work and go to school, but for me, I have a hard time focusing on my studies when I'm worried about bills and how to stretch my money between unemployment checks. I can't imagine trying to study for a PhD, this MBA program is already working my nerves! I'm thinking along the line of certs too. Seems like when everyone has the same thing, you have to prove that you're BETTER at it, so instead of another degree, a cert would show a specialty. I'll have to explore that next year, hopefully its cheaper than regular tuition. You're right, Frankg, about the field. I wish I had a stronger countenance so I could have gone into nursing! What do you guys think are the most secure fields right now? | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 313 Registered: 04-2008 |
Actually, I was goofing about everybody needing a doctorate in the future. On the other hand, I remember many members of my parents' and grandparents' generations telling me they dropped out of school immediately at age 14. Why? Because one could acquire working papers at that age and start making a living, or at least contributing to the family income. That mentality was in place through the '40s. Look at the leap in educational expectations in just two or three generations---now an MA is becoming the norm. Obviously, a lot of this is because of the shift from an industrial to post-industrial world, the GI Bill for WWII vets, and the draft (forcing a lot of kids into college in the '60s who might otherwise not have gone), etc., have turned higher education into an industry. But still a helluva leap. I know folks with PhD's in the liberal arts who can barely get a part-time job at a community college. Conversely, I have a young son-in-law in IT with about three college courses under his belt who makes roughly $110K a year (shaming his father-in-law). It ain't the degrees, it's supply and demand for a particular occupation. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 936 Registered: 02-2007 |
Too many people misunderstand how education works: sorry econ prof and Deteamster, but a degree does not automatically make you smarter or a more attractive candidate for employment/advancement. Smart people prosper. Hard working people prosper. Not-so smart and not-so hard workers with paper remain marginal talent, and if this is not evident in an interview it will be apparent once the mope has scammed a way into a job. You get out of education what you put in, and never mistake time spent at school with time spent in prison: doing your time in prison gets you released, but doing your time in school does not ensure that the grad has learned a thing. Our generic competition does not have an advantage because their governments grant universal degrees and letters. They beat our asses because their students actually learn and then apply the hard sciences. There's an old rule of thumb: two hours out of class for every hour in. A student putting in this much prep time is a real student and, for my money, will prosper. One who puts in less effort may get the coveted paper, but they're not likely to have developed the knowledge and skills to make the degree worth more than just something about which to brag. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1082 Registered: 05-2007 |
The technology sector remains strong and continues to expand. Advanced health related fields as well. Fields actively utilizing the latest advanced technologies, but also requiring human discretion. | ||
Melody Member Username: Melody Post Number: 261 Registered: 11-2007 |
I don't have a degree, and the two people who have the same job as me do. My skills are based on the way I was living my life when I was doing what I was doing when I was supposed to be in college, and it's still working even though I'm out of college age. I think if you want to be a teacher or computer programmer you need a degree. But you can make your own way if you are resourceful (and lucky!) enough. I agree with Richard... about the supply and demand too. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 3594 Registered: 02-2007 |
Education goes farther than just the amount of money you bring in...it is actually rounds your perspective and is never waisted...if you are open to move you can always put it into use...and at one level it can be as much of a cognitive challenge as running a marathon.. but as with anything; supply and demand comes into play...flooding markets with certain degrees and having shortages in others..best way to make decisions is to really go through a career evaluation, 1) find a work values inventory and Interests assessment fee if they match up with the economics in your area...(COPES COPS system) 2) develop your plan and work it...use all resources to offset costs (find out about federal loan forgiveness) and by the way it is a national shame that we have kids getting out of school with debt. 2b) Network and use this resource..we find our best opportunities from our friendships and friends of friends. 3) look for what your heart and mind desires, not a status degree...job satisfaction kicks in at different times and levels...It is never to late to develop a career path...many people chase dollars and suddenly wake-up to say I am not happy...when giving up a little can bring alternative happiness. 3) If you love something; you are flexible and can relocate to follow you dream...it can work out..but it's hard to move if your foundation and family are in one area. 4) Put yourself out there: presentations at conferences, speaking at local clubs and service related events, volunteer...you could be surprised at who you might meet... 5) finally, never give up on yourself, it's how you push through the obstacles that show your character...and when others put you down for your values, ideals and dreams..consider the sources...when others try to limit you; consider your dreams as your path, when other put down your career aspirations ..maybe it's because they are projecting themselves...and their fears...many times if you become successful in a new and challenging role it will turn those skeptics into fans... Be true to yourself; your DREAMS and dream as big as you want and then find a way to follow them...timing is everything and unless you get out there, you may miss that opportunity, but each day you get out there and sell your talents it only takes one time ... | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 315 Registered: 04-2008 |
Melody's being modest...she majored in rock, minored in verbs. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1083 Registered: 05-2007 |
Not really about graduate degrees, however, here are a few other tidbits. Don't under-estimate networking. Yes, it is a cliche - but it works. Many well-educated people lack the ability to communicate well. Treat it like an art, and it will aid you. You are not a robot, you are an intelligent, dynamic, intellectual human being. The old adage about who you know is somewhat true. Countless the number of times I have (re)crossed paths with former peers. Never, ever, burn bridges. Be business-friendly with EVERYONE you come in contact with. Listen to people, really listen, and you will soon come to certain invaluable conclusions. Self-help books can be very beneficial, but may tend to be generic. Business people that you respect, and that know you personally, can provide superior personalized advice. Excellent advice Gibran! (Message edited by vetalalumni on August 09, 2008) | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 318 Registered: 04-2008 |
I heartily agree about the networking. All of my staff jobs, save my very first, came from knowing people in the field and being told about an open position or being straight-out offered the job. And the degree question only came up twice---nobody cared what it was in or what my GPA was or even what courses I took. They just wanted to make sure I had my BA. And my degree is essentially worthless (Sec Ed) which makes me wonder why most employers insist you have one. But that's another topic. It's often said most jobs are never even advertised---isn't the figure like 90%---which makes networking perhaps a job-seeker's greatest tool. | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 319 Registered: 04-2008 |
" But that's another topic. " Actually, that IS the topic of this thread. Duh. I'm losing it. Senility settling in.... | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 8390 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: Yes, heaven forbid someone should have to pay for services rendered, just dump it on the backs of the taxpayers. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 3026 Registered: 08-2004 |
I don't want to go back to grad school now because the master's degree is really only useful if you have the WORK EXPERIENCE to back it up. This is so true for the MBAs and MPAs degrees. | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 260 Registered: 08-2006 |
just got my masters in may and its absolutely necessary, but it'll take 10 years to pay back my debts-work experience is absolutely necessary | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1085 Registered: 05-2007 |
Very good point Perfectgentleman. Exactly why I enjoy DYes. It could easily be qualified as a handout to forgive any educational loans. Begs to question whether "bail-outs" of ANY kind should EVER occur. This will surely spin-off a thread-jack. | ||
Mrsjdaniels Member Username: Mrsjdaniels Post Number: 1189 Registered: 08-2005 |
I def agree with entrepreneurship...what I failed to say in my earlier post was that not being able to break the 50K mark with my degrees led me to consult full time and teach part time at CC to keep my skills sharp. the additional certificates add to my value as a consultant | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 8391 Registered: 03-2006 |
Vetalalumni - The way I look at it walking away from college loans sets a terrible precedent. If you don't intend to pay the money back then don't borrow it. We already have too much of this mentality in this country. I can imagine medical school students reneging on their loans and then going out making six figure incomes. Meanwhile the rest of us are subsidizing that. You can work your way through school like millions of other Americans have. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 958 Registered: 08-2005 |
In terms of the percentage of the population that has a bachelor's degree or higher, Michigan ranks 37 out of 51 (includes Washington DC). So as a state, Michigan is below average in terms of the percentage of the population that has at least a 4-year degree. http://www.statemaster.com/gra ph/edu_bac_deg_or_hig_by_per-b achelor-s-degree-higher-percen tage One in four Michigan adults has a bachelor's degree. In Minnesota, it's one in three. Clearly, there are states out there with a much higher percentage of educated citizens and they are doing just fine. Michigan has room for improvement, we are not a state that is flush with college grads, not even close. |
