  Blondy Member Username: Blondy Post Number: 1237 Registered: 10-2003 |
Some good news.... http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a ssets/PDF/CD5261289.PDF | ||
Izzyindetroit Member Username: Izzyindetroit Post Number: 28 Registered: 07-2008 |
The info on page 19 of 55 is staggering. It seems as though the city is a bubble slowly filling up with wealth just waiting for the right time to BOOM. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 937 Registered: 06-2005 |
^^^^ It looks that way, but doesn't feel that way... | ||
Youngprofessionaldetroiter Member Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter Post Number: 150 Registered: 07-2008 |
^^ It doesn't feel that way because of a cultural poison deep rooted in Detroit that pushes us to see problems instead of opportunities. Someone asked me yesterday how can I be so optimistic about Detroit when everything going in city council, the mayor's office, and DPS is so frustrating? I told him that changing an organizational culture, whether it is a company or a city, is supposed to be frustrating. It's not supposed to feel good. That's why the rewards are so great on the other side. Rebuilding Detroit is like starting a business. It's going to be frustrating, painful, and thankless for a very long time. But there are opportunities for growth. Push through, be patient, expect frustration, never quit, and always stay positive. What if Detroit was known for its relentless work ethic and unparalleled positivity? We could make this city great. YPD | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 295 Registered: 10-2006 |
LOL, Social Compact is not a research organization. They are a lobbying group for big box retail in inner city neighborhoods. They obviously do not have better demographic data than the U.S. Census. That said, it is nice to see such positive reporting, even if it is basically an advertising supplement to Crains. | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 58 Registered: 02-2007 |
lol twice!••• median home sale value for midtown 219,000.00---now that is funny!•••• WHOLE APARTMENT BUILDINGS go for around 200--300 grand. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 296 Registered: 10-2006 |
There are homes on Long Lake Road in the best part of Bloomfield Township currently asking $275,000. They're far from new, on the small side and need a little work, but they're within spitting distance of Kirk in the Hills and not far from Cranbrook. There are even cheaper properties available, but in the lesser parts of the Bloomfields. There are renovated bungalows west of Woodward and walking distance to downtown Birmingham asking under 200K. There's no way in heck that the median sales price of some little apartment unit in Midtown (aka Cass Corridor) is 219K. | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 59 Registered: 02-2007 |
that's why I always say that developers of lofts in detroit are one step below used car salesman. I mean does anyone really believe that someone bought a 1 million condo at the book? I truly feel sorry for the idiots that put their money into these projects (the actual buyers, not the developers, builders who will just take their tax credits/bank draws and leave.) My favorite is the crosswinds development in the new center area where there has been 3 LEFT!••(on the sign) for over three years now. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1531 Registered: 10-2003 |
anybody like a little cheese with this whine? | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 60 Registered: 02-2007 |
If by whine you mean the truth then yes I would like a sharp cheddar please!••• I am not the one losing money--hence I am not whining. | ||
Saintme Member Username: Saintme Post Number: 203 Registered: 08-2006 |
"I mean does anyone really believe that someone bought a 1 million condo at the book?" Umm . . . yes. | ||
Bragaboutme Member Username: Bragaboutme Post Number: 439 Registered: 02-2008 |
There is alot going on as far as Developement in the Midtown Area. Maybe some people should actually see what's going on instead of speculating on things they know nothing about. These prices are real and people are buying them up just wait until the housing crisis stabilizes. | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 61 Registered: 02-2007 |
allright let's hear it-- where are these sales? BTW how's nine on third doing? or how about slattery's(sp) morgue project? | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 618 Registered: 11-2003 |
Wow, we have a new basher on the board. You contribute a lot. | ||
Lo_to_d Member Username: Lo_to_d Post Number: 96 Registered: 07-2007 |
I feel sorry for your mother croweblack. | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 62 Registered: 02-2007 |
so if by pointing that a piece of "research" is obviously false makes me a "basher" then I guess I am a Basher. | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 63 Registered: 02-2007 |
can't refute the facts-- start with the name calling Croweblack--Basher | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 297 Registered: 10-2006 |
The average home sales price in Detroit as of 8/1/08 is $39,423. Source: http://www.trulia.com/property /1064836264-15012-Penrod-St-De troit-MI-48223 I would be really, really surprised if they got a $1 million sale in the B-C. | ||
Brandon48202 Member Username: Brandon48202 Post Number: 229 Registered: 12-2004 |
The actual sale price is actually a lot lower than that. Bank owned homes that are wholesaled in package deals or deeded off are not reflected in that data. | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 64 Registered: 02-2007 |
I think it is just someone related to the developer who put down the dummy deposit for marketing purposes only--with the promise of a refund later. Croweblack--Basher | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1547 Registered: 12-2006 |
Averages for the whole city aren't a reflection of what goes on in select neighborhoods. Averages are, in fact, not a useful measure of anything, but people use them because they're easy to compute. As the old saw goes, I know a man who drowned in a river that was three feet deep on average. If my home sells for a million dollars and then a hundred of you sell your house for a dollar, the average price of houses during that whole set of transactions is about ten grand. But that doesn't make it false that my home sold for a million dollars. Statistics can't be extrapolated back up to detailed data. The reality of it is, some upscale properties in the city are moving, and stuff in the middle of the market is having a well-known tough time. Not sure what to make of that, though. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 298 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yes, Prof, we all know the diff. between medians and means, but average IS useful when talking about the actual overall trends in the city of Detroit vs. the rah-rah B.S. in the Crains article. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 299 Registered: 10-2006 |
For those that prefer medians, the median price as of 7-1-08 is $17,000. http://www.trulia.com/real_est ate/Detroit-Michigan/ | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 971 Registered: 04-2006 |
There have been at least two sales at the million dollar mark at the BC. first hand knowledge. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 300 Registered: 10-2006 |
Why are these alleged B-C sales not recorded? If they are only deposits, they are meaningless. | ||
Austinb1212 Member Username: Austinb1212 Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2003 |
The Book-Cadillac sales are not recorded because the closings have not happened yet. The first closings are scheduled for mid-September. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 425 Registered: 03-2005 |
It wouldn't make sense to record the sales before the building was ready to be occupied. Crowe, those tactics are not unique to Detroit. Most developments will fudge a little about how many actual units they have left. It's just smart marketing. Yeah, it looks bad if it lingers there for a while but you've got to at least try to create a sense of urgency or no one will buy. And, so what if a few projects are slower than others. That doesn't indict every developer and every development. It's a pretty diverse market and those who put out an overpriced and inferior product got burned. The market has stalled, not because of Kwame or anything unique to Detroit, but because of the state of the economy in SE Michigan. A dude like Crowe will use this slowdown to say how stupid everyone was but will have to eat his words when the market rebounds in a few years. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 619 Registered: 11-2003 |
Croweblack's statement: "I think it is just someone related to the developer who put down the dummy deposit for marketing purposes only--with the promise of a refund later." Excellent research Croweblack. | ||
Youngprofessionaldetroiter Member Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter Post Number: 155 Registered: 07-2008 |
Yes...those million dollar units have sold -- for a million dollars+. Good news is that the people moving in are also...bringing capital. Some have intentions of opening retail around the BC when they move down. The closings aren't scheduled til September. But it's not a religion...you don't have to "believe" it. There is real estate development going on in the CBD, and as we get through this economic cycle and resolve the KK situation, I believe you'll see more momentum. CBD has positive population growth going the last 5 years running, I believe. Also, I don't think it makes any sense at all to look at Detroit's population and avg. home sales as an entire city. The city is too big...development is going on in different areas...and the numbers coming from aggregate data isn't really useful for seeing whether or not there are opportunities. http://www.detroitnews.com/app s/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200805 27/BIZ/805270301 "Wes Wyatt, chairman and CEO of Cintron Beverage Group in Philadelphia who bought one of The Book's $1 million-plus penthouses, says he too thinks the Book was too good to pass up. Compared with Philadelphia real estate prices, Wyatt called the seven-figure price tag for his three-story penthouse "a bargain."" (Message edited by youngprofessionaldetroiter on August 12, 2008) | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 301 Registered: 10-2006 |
I doubt those million dollar "sales" will close. Croweblack's scenario is more likely. And Wes Wyatt's comments are idiotic. How is something "a bargain" just because it's cheaper than the real estate in another market? A penthouse in Manhattan can cost $50 million. Does that mean that if I paid $25 million for a Detroit penthouse, it would be "a bargain", just because it's half the price of a similarly sized listing in another market? I need to get his number and a broker's license. Wes, how about a cozy City Airport-area bungalow (let's say French Road) for the "bargain" price of $300,000? Heck, similar bungalows easily go for twice the price in the parts of the New York area and coastal California. What a deal! | ||
Youngprofessionaldetroiter Member Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter Post Number: 156 Registered: 07-2008 |
I don't understand. So much about real estate values are about perception and enthusiasm. When people get enthusiastic, they drive prices higher. When prices go higher, more people are interested in investing. With more investing brings economic development. Rah-rah cheerleading by itself will not solve the city's problems. But, man, the negativity sure slows us down. If you want to be encouraging economic revival, you should be ENCOURAGING economic revival. YPD | ||
Ashdetroit Member Username: Ashdetroit Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2008 |
As for the quote on Midtown's real estate, I know that several condos in the Park Shelton have sold in the past month--some of those easily go for $250,000. The Ellington has also been selling well. There ARE people putting the money where their mouth is in this city. And this really is the best time to buy (provided the economy EVER starts improving) | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 65 Registered: 02-2007 |
"you should be ENCOURAGING economic revival." I have no problem with that. But outright LYING about research goes way beyond Encouraging economic revival. Crain's should have no part in that whatsoever--even if it is a "supplement". The Ellington--Ever driven by there at night? there are very few lights on in any of the units which leads me to believe that the units are vacant. The ellington is the project that I actually thought would do well. If that place is doing poorly--watch out!! Dryer vents or not-heeeee!! Park Shelton--If indeed those units SOLD not just had deposits put down, then I am guessing one would easily be able to find the deed recorded in what a few weeks from now? I for one can't wait to check the register of deeds office in September. "Crowe will use this slowdown to say how stupid everyone was but will have to eat his words when the market rebounds in a few years." You have no idea how happy I would be to say I was wrong. (Message edited by croweblack on August 12, 2008) | ||
Youngprofessionaldetroiter Member Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter Post Number: 160 Registered: 07-2008 |
Crowe, I feel you. Big difference between accentuating the positive and making up facts. I draw the line there. "I am guessing one would easily be able to find the deed recorded in what a few weeks from now?" As for the deeds recording, I hear rumors that the department is backed up 6 months to 1 year+. So, who knows. Anyway, when I'm down at the BC, I'll let you know when I meet the penthouse guys and see if they're actually legit. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2873 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: People have been saying that the B-C is just a shell game for a couple of years now. As recently as spring 2006, people have been saying that the building was going to be demolished any day now. The beauty of it all is that in approximately 2 months from now, the hotel will be open and whatever new residents there are will be in their new homes. And then we'll know for certain who knows what they're talking about and who is just pulling stuff out of their ass. quote: If you're going to start accusing folks of lying then it's time to start coughing up some much better research. quote: It could mean that. Or it could mean that folks have their blinds closed. Or they're asleep. Or not home. If you really want to know, make friends with someone who lives there and go in the place. I know at least one person who lives there and have seen other residents in the hallways. quote: Depends. Is Detroit still a part of Wayne County? The Wayne County Registrar of Deeds routinely takes 8 - 10 months to record a sale, with some transactions not showing up in their searches for more than a year later. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 621 Registered: 11-2003 |
Here are more pictures of the building with the fake sales. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/gallery?Site=C4&Date=2008 0812&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=8 08120804&Ref=PH&Params=Itemnr= 1 | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2875 Registered: 12-2004 |
Yeah, fake sales. And yet a whole bunch of construction guys have been collecting union wages & benefits for more than a year now to work on that site. The unions must be a part of this conspiracy to create the ILLUSION of real estate development in Detroit, too. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 652 Registered: 09-2006 |
Some of the posters here are really quite comical, and very uninformed.. to much of your disappointment there are numerous property purchases going on in Detroit where people are still paying large sums. Yes the Book did indeed sell million dollar units and numerous other ones for 400,000 plus, there are several other buildings downtown where units are selling for 300-400k presently. In my own Lafayette Park neighborhood there have been several transactions this year where prices were close to that of two years ago, basically because they were desirable properties and a buyer came along..There are also some steals going on in the same places,, Its all about timing, financing, etc.. It really isnt alot different that Bham or Bhills or Roak or Southfield, The Detroit "average" is exactly that... You are looking at thousands and thousands of different types of housing in very different areas and blending it into one figure,,There are some steals going on in those areas and there are some properties selling for good prices. Many factors go into these transactions, Unresearched comments like, "there is no way " etc... are exactly that, Unresearched . | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 302 Registered: 10-2006 |
Indeed, many of the posters are a hoot. Please back up all your claims of "several" other buildings with 400k sales "presently". And Lafayette Park for 400K? Ahem, you wouldn't happen to own a unit in Lafayette Park, would you?? It basically breaks down to two people in this thread; on one side, people who actually know something about real estate, and on the other, downtown brokers, property owners and shills for the B-C, who continue to maintain that the real estate crisis affecting metro Detroit has had no impact on downtown real estate whatsoever, and who claim absent any evidence (besides developer and broker claims) that Cass Corridor real estate sells for more per square foot than downtown Birmingham real estate. If you think that downtown Detroit is the one place in the U.S. where residential real estate prices are rising, be my guest. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1564 Registered: 12-2006 |
The negative posters on this thread seem to be making the following logical jump. Premise: real estate in metro Detroit is, in general, depressed. Conclusion: there is no activity at the high end of the market in downtown Detroit. I can't see how that conclusion follows from the logic. It would be like saying: three quarters of the students in a dormitory have a cold, therefore it must be false to say that any particular student is feeling well. | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 66 Registered: 02-2007 |
"The Wayne County Registrar of Deeds routinely takes 8 - 10 months to record a sale" Nope. Sorry. Closed on a property in February, deed recorded and returned in April. It would be real easy to shut up the negative people--give us some frickin adresses!! So simple. We can just look it up and bamn!! If the research in the supplement is true then there should be an easy way to verify a couple of sales. I find it odd that all those saying that the "research" is the truth refuse to give one iota of proof that those "sales" actually happened. I can't prove a negative, I can't offer proof of transactions that did not happen. The "everything is selling!" crowd can. | ||
Registeredguest Member Username: Registeredguest Post Number: 398 Registered: 10-2003 |
Examples (albiet outside of downtown) http://www.trulia.com/homes/Mi chigan/Detroit/sold/2147666-30 65-Iroquois-St-Detroit-MI-4821 4 "Sold for $524,850 on Apr 4th, 2008" Or this home: http://www.trulia.com/homes/Mi chigan/Detroit/sold/2147364-14 38-Iroquois-St-Detroit-MI-4821 4 "Sold for $360,000 on Dec 14th, 2007" Or this home: http://www.trulia.com/homes/Mi chigan/Detroit/sold/2147691-17 83-Iroquois-St-Detroit-MI-4821 4 "Sold for $390,000 on Nov 20th, 2007" Or this home: "http://www.trulia.com/homes/Mi chigan/Detroit/sold/396459-152 0-Seminole-St-Detroit-MI-48214 " "Sold for $248,000 on Feb 4th, 2008" | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 67 Registered: 02-2007 |
Those are all HOUSES in indian village!•• | ||
Registeredguest Member Username: Registeredguest Post Number: 399 Registered: 10-2003 |
Congrats - you know your geography. Regardless, it's in-direct evidence that property remains to sell in Detroit at reasonable prices. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 3030 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here's some data you can all argue over: From Zillow.com sales in the last year. http://www.zillow.com/search/R ealEstateSearch.htm?addrstrtho od=&citystatezip=48226#view=ve r%3D1%26op%3Dsearch%26scen%3Ds 8%26map%3D%28Aw%3AAN83063247%2 1As%3A42334354%21Ae%3AAN830348 37%21An%3A42351800%29%26params %3D%28p27%3AAI0AM365AJ%29%26mo de%3D%28zoom%3A14%21sortANdir% 3Au%21sortANparam%3Ax18%29%26c itystatezip%3D48226%26loc%3Dma p A prime example or two; $475,000 http://www.zillow.com/HomeDeta ils.htm?zprop=80179961 $303K http://www.zillow.com/HomeDeta ils.htm?zprop=67304201 $320K http://www.zillow.com/HomeDeta ils.htm?zprop=72380333 $271k http://www.zillow.com/HomeDeta ils.htm?zprop=67306936 How about some riverfront tower sales http://www.zillow.com/search/R ealEstateSearch.htm?addrstrtho od=&citystatezip=48226#view=ve r%3D1%26op%3Dbuilding-page%26s cen%3Ds8%26map%3D%28AlAaAt%3A4 2324463%21AlAoAn%3AAN83057449% 29%26params%3D%28p27%3AAI0AMAJ %29%26mode%3D%28zoom%3A18%21so rtANdir%3Au%21sortANparam%3Ax1 8%21zpid%3A72378817%21page%3A1 %21pagesize%3A250%29%26citysta tezip%3D48226%26loc%3Dzpid and http://www.zillow.com/search/R ealEstateSearch.htm?addrstrtho od=&citystatezip=48226#view=ve r%3D1%26op%3Dbuilding-page%26s cen%3Ds8%26map%3D%28AlAaAt%3A4 2324877%21AlAoAn%3AAN83055554% 29%26params%3D%28p27%3AAI0AMAJ %29%26mode%3D%28zoom%3A18%21so rtANdir%3Au%21sortANparam%3Ax1 8%21zpid%3A67307152%21page%3A1 %21pagesize%3A250%29%26citysta tezip%3D48226%26loc%3Dzpid | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 432 Registered: 03-2005 |
Croweblack: I believe the 6 month+ delay at the register of deeds is not for recording it's for actually scanning the document into the system and making it searchable. The Register is good at taking documents, stamping them, and sending them back to you, which is why yours was returned quickly. So the document may be "recorded" but a title search or an independent person trying to get a copy of it would not be able to for several more months. Does that make sense? | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2878 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: Did it show up in their searches in April? I've searched dozen of properties. I've never seen a case where the gap between when it was filed and when it showed up in a search was less than 8 months. | ||
Croweblack Member Username: Croweblack Post Number: 71 Registered: 02-2007 |
Sorry. In April the sale showed up on the city's BSA assessment site. I had not checked the register of deeds until may/june where it did show up. my bad | ||
Norwalk Member Username: Norwalk Post Number: 335 Registered: 11-2006 |
Research has proven there are WMD in Iraq | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 303 Registered: 10-2006 |
So you have found exactly 1 recorded sale of at least 400K in the last year and a half in the downtown/midtown markets. Including Indian Village and all single family homes (citywide or just IV?), you have found 1 additional recorded sale of at least 400K. | ||
Vivadetroit Member Username: Vivadetroit Post Number: 49 Registered: 04-2008 |
hey Croweblack, do you have any info on developments in Brush Park? or does anyone have info for that matter? thanks |
