  Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy Post Number: 97 Registered: 01-2008 |
Most degrees make a most decorate asset for hanging on the interior walls of an outhouse. Most climb the corporate ladder on dirty knees and the old adage "It's not who you know, but who you blow" holds true. Get a real education. See the world and enjoy your youth while it lasts. Be a hobo, it sure beats sitting in a cubicle. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 3028 Registered: 08-2004 |
Warriorfan, that's why I'm not even in a rush to get my master's degree. There are plenty of people in this state who hold full-time jobs without a master's degree. I don't want to make myself at a greater disadvantage. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1088 Registered: 05-2007 |
Perfectgentleman, your observation on personal responsibility is a point well taken. Another example of individuals attempting to take advantage of the system, at the expense of others. It should not go without saying, that this occurs many, many ways in a myriad of different contexts in our society. For some, this particular occurrence is a ripe, big red target. | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 323 Registered: 04-2008 |
I know I'm sounding ignorant [insert wisecrack here], but I thought a person couldn't go bankrupt on student loans. I really don't know, having used the GI Bill for my own education and doing pay-as-they-go (along with grant and scholarship money) for my daughters. Enlighten me. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 843 Registered: 05-2006 |
From lawyers dot com: "Student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy unless you can show that your loan payment imposes an "undue hardship" on you, your family, and your dependents. Non-dischargeable debts are those debts that you cannot totally eliminate when you file for bankruptcy and will have to be paid by you. It is almost impossible to show an undue hardship unless you are physically unable to work and the chances of your obtaining any type of gainful employment in the future are non-existent." | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 325 Registered: 04-2008 |
OK. Thanks. Looks like it's not too easy to squirrel out of repaying those loans. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6062 Registered: 12-2005 |
Eventually we'll spend virtually our entire life in school then spend 2 of our last 3 nanoseconds frantically working to repay all those educational loans all for one golden nanosecond of retirement before becoming soylent green! Yea! | ||
Ronaldj Member Username: Ronaldj Post Number: 38 Registered: 01-2007 |
Peter Jennings had only a high school education. Fortunately his father was in the business. Unfortunately, Peter Jennings suffered an untimely death. | ||
Rid0617 Member Username: Rid0617 Post Number: 252 Registered: 03-2008 |
Even though I'm an old fart I have a 15 year old daughter. I have told her I will not send her to college just to get a degree but will send her to technical school so she can learn a trade. No offense to anyone working hard to get a degree but I've always had a feeling you do 4 years in school, you graduate and you have nothing to offer an employer except being smarter. In a trade school you actually have experience and can go to work on the first day already experienced in your field. For the past 4 years she has had her mind made up she wants to be an animated graphics artist. I kind of fail to see the sense in her taking some of the required courses to get a degree that would have nothing to do with her field. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 3598 Registered: 02-2007 |
if college is not for you ..I agree that trade school will be a great alternative...my dad insisted that a skilled trade would be as valuable as a degree in the right hands...my grandfather was a craftsman and did very well for himself...it is an Individual thing... student loans are part of the equation and the sad thing is the higher rates of loans now...loan forgiveness is working the loans off in areas that have been recognized as under-served or even difficult places to fill....for example: if you accept a scholarship for grad school and it is from RSA as a capacity builder (filling under-served areas): you have to put two years in to an area)... no one is saying walk away: what loan forgiveness is in some majors is working in hard to place areas...for hard to fill positions: think of it as a sign on bonus...and a alternative to higher loan non-payment... we invest in many things as people: it is great that some make it without education...that is the beauty of our system...but for the price of a car many can invest into their own future...to be dismissive of education is generalizing.... what I have told my kids is work part-time in the field where you are studying (if possible) to get the real world experience while going to school...youwill be light years ahead of academics ..volunteer while in school whatever...round off school with real world experiences.... there are many ways of approaching careers..education and trades are two, and they are not mutually exclusive...apprenticeship is an education ( until last century the majority of medical professional learned as one)....everything is an education: some are formal experiences and some aren't... the best advise I ever received is: no matter what you do: do your best..if you dig ditches dig them straight and correct, if you go to school get an education, just don't show up, for it is what you do with your opportunities that make it rewarding... | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 562 Registered: 04-2004 |
"I don't want to go back to grad school now because the master's degree is really only useful if you have the WORK EXPERIENCE to back it up. This is so true for the MBAs and MPAs degrees." This may be a good reason for people to get work experience first prior to getting a higher degree although I'm starting to find a vast number of new well-paying positions requiring a masters. So I think you may slowly find that theory begin to diminish. As someone said above, networking is extremely important, then what level of education you possess, and finally your past work experience. Again, this applies to particular fields. I'm in architecture/planning and without holding a masters there's no chance of elevating your position no matter how hard you work, or what you do for the company because you lack the credentials. Especially in architecture, you can't become licensed without a masters degree. (there are exceptions in some states). But I can agree that hard work is what really matters. I think a lot of recent grads are fooled into thinking their degree will offer higher pay. But a bigger salary comes with better wisdom in the corporate world. With that said, grads need to take what they can get, and move up from there. (Message edited by wolverine on August 10, 2008) | ||
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster Post Number: 153 Registered: 07-2007 |
Lint rollers. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 1420 Registered: 03-2008 |
"All those people making all that money... LOL! I'm spending all mine to be smart, and to get my degrees. Sure I'm 52 and have no money, but so what? Hate all you want. When I die, you know what's going to keep my kids warm? That's right, those degrees". That comes to mind... LOL! Sorry if I messed up the skit for those that have heard it before. Craig said; "There's an old rule of thumb: two hours out of class for every hour in. A student putting in this much prep time is a real student and, for my money, will prosper. One who puts in less effort may get the coveted paper, but they're not likely to have developed the knowledge and skills to make the degree worth more than just something about which to brag." The line "I didn't spend all that money and time at Yale just so I could waist my life working 40 hours a week" comes to mind. It's all credibility. If your smart, but viewed as a brainless Scarecrow, your not going to get anywhere. Once you have that degree, if that gives you the needed credibility, then it was worth it. If that is not enough (IE; needing a higher degree, or more experience), then it is simply not enough, or was not worth it. Credibility is always key. Loans are one of a million ways to get money. I for example, want to start businesses. Loans for something that does not have a job as a payoff, but rather the requirement of more money and loans, well that wouldn't have been to smart. At least, not getting loans for both anyway. I honestly am not a fan of loans. To much could go wrong, and you always owe someone else. Although, I know there are people who really know how to play lenders for advantages, so I guess it all depends on your strategy too. But, that is only true if your strategy doesn't jeopardize your credibility (and even your self view of your credibility). Edited for grammar (Message edited by Sean_of_Detroit on August 10, 2008) | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 563 Registered: 04-2004 |
I'm sure Kanye West will receive honorary degrees | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 1421 Registered: 03-2008 |
LOL, I knew someone would get it.  | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 3029 Registered: 08-2004 |
Wolverine, certain fields like architecture, planning, social work, and teaching require master's degree for statewide certification. For the other jobs out there that don't require a master's degree, get your bachelor's and work up from there. There are companies out there who do not want to pay a person with a master's degree when they can pay less and receive the same talent with someone with a bachelor's degree. | ||
Optima Member Username: Optima Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2006 |
This thread is definitely timely. I walk away with a B.S. in paralegal studies in December as a "later in life" grad and am contemplating a Master's and have even thought (briefly) about law school. My personal quandary and debate is whether either will (and how soon) actually add to my bottom line. In this state's economy, it is too hard to tell as it is obviously in a unique situation currently. By contrast, my wife, with no college education is going to add another IT certification soon that may put her in another position of financial envy compared to me. It is all relative and I believe the source of the degree (which school) plays a major role as well. Education is never wasted but may or may not pay off in anticipated ways... Cm | ||
Thames Member Username: Thames Post Number: 197 Registered: 02-2007 |
My expectations of getting a degree started with the idea that I would make more money with one, then without one. In this economy, I no longer think that my degree will earn me more money. It might help me land a job, but it won't get me an extra dime. | ||
Ladia Member Username: Ladia Post Number: 61 Registered: 05-2008 |
i think its best to go straight through school,possibly get a ph.d because jobs keep requiring higher and higher qualifications to get. first they wanted at least an associates,then at least a bachelors,now a masters and higher.jobs also seem to put more value on experience than a degree, still. i always heard that once people started getting degrees,it would displace the workers who have been doing their jobs for years without one.that doesn't seem to be the case,i don't know of any older people who have been displaced yet. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 1080 Registered: 11-2003 |
As I understand it a very low percentage of people with degrees actually go into the field their degree is in. One of my mentors who's a certified broadcast engineer has a degree in forestry. Another in media has a degree in law. I know a couple people with communications degrees that were going to be cameramen that are now cops. Also, a lot of entrepreneurs don't have degrees. This new economy is all about relationships - who you know, not necessarily what you know, as all money comes from people. Getting raises is no longer about better job performance, it's about personal networks. One of the toughest transitions the Detroit region has to make is one from a line mentality where both management and union reinforced that you are not of individual value (there was a great thread on here about line stories) to one where it's ALL about individualism and individual value. You need to make yourself very valuable - and a new age of micro-entrepreneur is upon us. After all, according to the US Department of Labor, the average US person has 10-14 jobs by the time they're 38. So, if you assume 20 years of work from 18-on, that's a new job every less than 2 years. Truly, lifetime employment at the same firm is dead everywhere else but here - and the way to move up many times in large companies is to move to another company, and then come back for money a few years later. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4829 Registered: 06-2004 |
My brother and sister both have been with the same employer since they graduated from school 18 and 26 years ago. Both have a B.S. in chemistry related fields. The field matters more than anything. Guess wrong and you're screwed. | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 564 Registered: 04-2004 |
Ltorivia485, that's what I meant when I said only certain fields require a masters. Although, I'm definitely encouraging people to getting a higher degree at some point in their life, but I agree with you that going into the workforce after obtaining a bachelors is extremely valuable. But you are correct, my field is an exception. | ||
Lowell Moderator Username: Lowell Post Number: 4938 Registered: 07-2008 |
What did Henry Ford, Albert Kahn and Berry Gordy all have in common? | ||
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott Post Number: 39 Registered: 05-2008 |
I have a really good manufacturing job (25$-30$ per hour range)but no degree. However I know this can't last forever and I'm only 31 so I have a lot of time left to work. My company pays for schooling so I went back two years ago and now I'm three classes shy of an assoc. degree. It's tough working 48-60 hours and going to school three days a week but I want a degree to fall back on if and when something happens to my place of work. It's amazing, there's probably 500 people here and I'm one of about 5-10 that take advantage of the free school. | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 890 Registered: 11-2006 |
Bc I would jump at the chance to make that money with no degree. At this point in my life I am disciplined and sensible enough to rack up some certificates of deposit-individual stocks etc. Build a base savings and start a 401k. Im in the mid teens with my wage which is enough to sock some money away, but its very tight. The woman I am dating now has a Bachelor degree in Criminal Justice, works at a Family Independence Agency location in Detroit and makes about $25 per hr. If she gets the parole officer position she placed a bid on her hourly rate will increase an extra $2 per hr. The fact that she is a UAW member is an added benefit. I SHOULD HAVE STAYED IN SCHOOL! I graduated high school with average grades could have done better. I plan on sitting down with a college counselor in the very near future to see what jobs or careers are available for someone with an Associates degree or some other certification. There are some industries in which a person can advance with little or no education. Some retail chains have department and district management positions that employees can work their way up in the chain into while they learn as they go, but obviously a degree can't hurt in the long term. | ||
Stinger4me Member Username: Stinger4me Post Number: 242 Registered: 08-2007 |
When you consider the price of tuition many young folks will be hard pressed to repay the student loans. Tuition costs have gone through the roof accompanying salaries made by school officials. Four years at some state schools will have a tuition total in excess of $78,000.. Do the math on student loans and figure out the final cost. Pretty expensive, how will they ever get out from under that debt load after they graduate. I wish I had the answer. | ||
Youngprofessionaldetroiter Member Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter Post Number: 143 Registered: 07-2008 |
"Four years at some state schools will have a tuition total in excess of $78,000.. Do the math on student loans and figure out the final cost. Pretty expensive, how will they ever get out from under that debt load after they graduate. I wish I had the answer." I was graduated from UM a few years ago. I financed the entire thing. Close to $60000 worth. My monthly student loan payment? $200/mo. Of which much is tax-deductible. Is it worth $200/mo. for a degree? I'd say so. Even if I had to pay that $200/mo. for the rest of my life. My brother is graduating from Wayne Med School. He did his undergrad at a private school in the south. He'll owe over $150k. But by the time he turns 35, his salary will be between 250-300k and growing. Was it worth it? I'd say so. A degree by itself is not valuable. But given the critical thinking abilities gained from your college experience, combined with a creative, entrepreneurial mindset and hard work? A degree has infinite value. YPD | ||
Frankg Member Username: Frankg Post Number: 501 Registered: 08-2007 |
I am going to be paying student loans until I am 73 years old (no lie), unless I can make double payments or something. But I don't look at the economic value - I look at the critical thinking skills and research skills I have gained as making it worth it. | ||
Youngprofessionaldetroiter Member Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter Post Number: 144 Registered: 07-2008 |
"I kind of fail to see the sense in her taking some of the required courses to get a degree that would have nothing to do with her field." Rid...I can see where you're coming from, and my a parents shared your opinion when I aged them by 10 years telling them I was going to leave the UM's College of Engineering for a liberal arts degree. The value in all those classes that don't apply directly to her trade is (supposed to be) that your daughter will be learning to think, learning to argue, learning to communicate, learning to share and formulate ideas...rather than just memorize pointless facts and regurgitating them. The point is ideally, your daughter will be ready for the jobs of today, the jobs of tomorrow, and the jobs of tomorrow's tomorrow. Even if she doesn't have the skill set for those jobs, "all those extra classes" will give her the solid fundamental groundwork so she can learn the new skills easily. 20 years ago, who knew that an "internet search engine" would be one of the most powerful companies in the world? Who knows what will drive tomorrow? No one does. So I argue that getting a good education is really not just about learning a skill that you can trade for money -- though, trust me, that's STILL a big part of it -- it's about educating your mind to be able to solve problems that we don't even know about yet. Not to mention that a big part of getting your degree is to expose yourself to others from other place and socioeconomic walks of life to here their perspectives and learn how they think. I moved 40 miles west of Detroit to attend Michigan. But I had fraternity brothers from NYC, Memphis, Dalls, as well as small towns like Cadillac, Clinton, and more. We definitely don't have all the answers here in SE Michigan...and it certainly wouldn't hurt if our youth could gain some perspectives on how other cities/states solve the very same problems we're fighting here. My 2 cents. YPD (Message edited by youngprofessionaldetroiter on August 10, 2008) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4830 Registered: 06-2004 |
Close to $60,000 and you're only paying $200/mo.? I graduated almost 20 years ago with only about $11,000 owed and that was $113/mo. |
