Faygoredpop Member Username: Faygoredpop
Post Number: 17 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 12:24 am: | |
The only weird encounter I've had was going to Holy Cross cemetery to visit my great grandmother. She is buried in the back of the cemetery and it seemed a car was coming around to the same area that I was in. I went to my car to move it so they could get by, they did but they just went around in a circle, there was a man and a woman in the car, I think they thought I was leaving. After I cleaned off her grave and a few of her neighbors I discovered a condom by the wastebasket, also the car that went in the circle took off. I tried to talk to someone at the office but no one was there. It made me mad thinking someone could go to the cemetery to "pleasure" themselves while others are there to say prayers to loved ones who have passed away. Unfortunately Holy Cross does not have a lot of employees to keep watch everywhere. I hope they will catch the people and maybe send them to jail. |
Kennyd Member Username: Kennyd
Post Number: 31 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 12:29 am: | |
quote:Mt. Olivet's neighborhood has seen better days, but it's not freakin' Baghdad for Christ's sake! Y'know, a lot of youse are proud of the fact you still live in the D, and that's great. But the fact is, that there are a lot of "wild dogs" roaming around. The older folks, many women, are gentle people not as used to the mean streets as WE think WE are. You never know when you'll be tested. The poor guy in China probably never imagined he and his wife would happen across the wild dog there. You have to at least understand and acknowledge the increased risk and people's right to avoid additional risk... |
Mashugruskie Member Username: Mashugruskie
Post Number: 26 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 12:30 am: | |
Well, Faygoredpop, I think they're hanging out at Redford Union High School! I've stepped on used condoms there. Holy Cross only has one office person who also works the grounds. If you're visiting during the day and they're not in the office, they're out in the cemetery somewhere. |
Cub Member Username: Cub
Post Number: 713 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 12:39 am: | |
Bullshit KennyD. |
Reddog289 Member Username: Reddog289
Post Number: 527 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 12:48 am: | |
I saw that on the front page and thought 'If any of my dead relatives think i,m gonna pay to have them moved they are nuts' Then again like any would.. |
Kennyd Member Username: Kennyd
Post Number: 33 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 12:54 am: | |
quote:Bullshit KennyD. That's a weak argument - |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 5252 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 12:57 am: | |
Good posts, Deteamster and Bibs. |
Cub Member Username: Cub
Post Number: 714 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 1:02 am: | |
KennyD, what increased risk in a cemetary? Especially Mt. Olivet? |
Kennyd Member Username: Kennyd
Post Number: 34 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 1:17 am: | |
Not in a cemetery per se, it's just a more depressed and isolated area. Tracks along one side... I'm referring to the article. These types feel like prey in an uninviting area. My sister referred to it as "oppressive with a very dark, hopeless feeling". That's her reality. Not yours or mine. I could just be trying to rationalize... |
Cub Member Username: Cub
Post Number: 715 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 1:31 am: | |
True. But you can't judge a book by its cover. There are a lot of good people in this neighborhood. We out number the "wild dogs" over here. |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1560 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 1:32 am: | |
I agree with Mackinaw. What is happening, as usual around the D, is that the media have picked up on yet another oddball item to continue to beat us over the head about the following well known fact: Some suburbanites are so scared of big bad Detroit that they will go to ridiculous extremes to avoid entering the City! The media do this because it sells advertisements, which is of course the only reason the media exist. As with all such stories, this is necessarily anecdotal and not statistical. There are not significant numbers of corpses being moved in this way, but you find some families with an unusual quantity of bigotry and fear, and quote from them heavily. The Professor, who is a middle-aged white guy, regularly stands on street corners all over Detroit and waits for buses, and feels no more trepidation in so doing than when he is waiting in Roseville or Dearborn. So I'd be a boring story and therefore the papers won't interview me. But if I was scared to death of Seven Mile and Gratiot I'd be a great interview. Remember, the purpose of the newspaper is to sell advertisements. If you think it's there mainly to inform you, or to better the community, think again. |
Scooter2k7 Member Username: Scooter2k7
Post Number: 123 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 5:57 am: | |
We decided to move my grandmother from Mt Olivet to Resurrection 25 years ago when my uncle died. The only reason behind that is we could not get the graves surrounding my grandmother (she died suddenly in 1975). My grandfather wanted a family plot and Resurrection offered that. I still have great-grandparents in Mt Olivet. We still visit them, Mt Olivet is a beautiful cemetary, lots of history that Ressurection does not have. Spinning this issue on race is just another stupid, stereotype to feed the proverbial 8 Mile divide. |
Orange_barrel Member Username: Orange_barrel
Post Number: 51 Registered: 02-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 6:37 am: | |
I try to explain to my friends that if you're not involved in narcotics or some kind of domestic dispute, then you chances of being a victim of crime in Detroit go way down. But no, they'd rather assume the worst. Stories like this one make it even easier for them to keep their minds closed. |
Gnome Member Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1617 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 7:45 am: | |
My gggrandfather was moved from NY to Michigan in 1837. I think folks have been doing this for a long time, why is everyone getting upset? Are folks really upset that old ladies think Detroit is a violent place? It is. Ask any old lady. You surprised? Shocked? Outraged that someplace could be considered violent when only 400 people a year are murdered? Gosh, are you really offended that such a label as "violent" would be applied? |
Grumpyoldlady Member Username: Grumpyoldlady
Post Number: 200 Registered: 06-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 8:13 am: | |
The scrappers have been stealing the pull-up vases from bronze monuments for as long as I can remember. I would not be a bit surprised to hear that they start opening graves and stealing jewelry....there must be millions of dollars worth buried in Detroit cemeteries alone. |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 4418 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 8:45 am: | |
quote:I would not be a bit surprised to hear that they start opening graves and stealing jewelry.... I doubt it. Digging down six feet is too much work. |
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11997 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 8:58 am: | |
quote:There are a lot of good people in this neighborhood. Quiet Cub. It is a lot easier to make broad generalizations about the people in a neighborhood by driving by with the windows up. Once some people find out there are decent people in 'those places' it makes it difficult for them to generalize the area and all the people. You don't want to make people have to second guess the easy, neat perceptions they have formed, do you? |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 5253 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 9:12 am: | |
Well said. |
Maof2 Member Username: Maof2
Post Number: 300 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 9:24 am: | |
I just read the article again. Gramps died 50 years ago and had just purchased property in SCS. 50 years ago, that neighborhood was thriving and I'm sure if he had known the area was going to go down, I bet he wouldn't have wanted to be buried there. He was ready to head to the "burbs", a little sooner than most. You gotta give the granddaughters credit for being truthful about being afraid. There are safer ways to get there then others. The freeway to Connor is a straight shot and Gratiot is fine with me but I wouln't drive 7 mile Rd. anymore. |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 3384 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 9:29 am: | |
^There's nothing at all wrong with 7 Mile (unless you're speaking W. 7 Mile). Heck, Conner & Van Dyke creeps me out more than 7 mile, and I would drive them before Michigan or Fort st. in Detroit. |
Maof2 Member Username: Maof2
Post Number: 303 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 9:36 am: | |
7 Mile just seems a little congested to me. I agree about VanDyke but I prefer Connor overall. The Airport is there a few new business... |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 3385 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 9:38 am: | |
Big cities are supposed to be congested. 7 Mile is the only street in the city where I see people out & about. It's the areas that aren't congested which creeps me out. |
Johnberk Member Username: Johnberk
Post Number: 95 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 9:55 am: | |
quote:Some of the cemeteries in town have signs warning visitors not to get out of their cars and to keep their doors locked. Hockey Player: I have visited several cemeteries in the city and I have never seen any signs like this. What cemeteries have such signs? |
Detroitbred Member Username: Detroitbred
Post Number: 47 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 10:27 am: | |
My parents and brother are in Holy Sepulcher in Southfield. I go there fairly often ( beautiful and peaceful place )and have never been afraid. I do however pay attention to my surroundings no matter where I am...lock my car doors, etc. There are families that spend an afternoon there eating, etc. Not sure what their nationality is but they are always dressed mostly in black. My grandparents are in Grand Lawn and lately I have had the feeling I should go there. No one has been in years, I think they need a little TLC. I have been worried about going there alone so haven't been yet. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 5254 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 10:32 am: | |
You're right Drise, and it is the empty places that are more unsafe. 7-Mile is just strangely narrow by Detroit standards (NW of Kelly, that is)...and certainly not the only place in the City where there are pedestrians, but I guess one of a small handful of gathering places on the NE side. It's a little beat up and blighted in a few spots, but all the activity and the way its built remind one of a comparable outer borough in other major cities. But that's downright scary to the people who fear cities because of "all the bad people." |
Maof2 Member Username: Maof2
Post Number: 305 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 10:58 am: | |
Mack - That is what I meant to say is that 7 mile IS narrow, especially once you get past say where the old Frank's Nursery and the Parakeet bar was. Seems to be some "double" parking going on. |
Plymouthres Member Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 850 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 10:59 am: | |
My parents and paternal grandparents are all at Woodmere, in SW Detroit, and my maternal grandparents are at Evergreen, across from the State Fairgrounds. Neither place is the safe haven that they used to be, but nowhere in the city is safe if you fail to keep in mind where you are and act appropriately. That being said, Woodmere experienced a bit of vandalism a few years back, and the bronze vases that flanked my parents/gparents headstone were stolen a couple of years back. There were also a spate of robberies there a few years back (prior to 2001, when I stopped letting my mom go there alone), and the grounds crew would actually show up (ironically enough) when they noticed an older single woman or man coming in for a visit. Even after 40 years of going there myself, I have only witnessed crime occurring in Patton Park across the street, and never in the cemetary have I seen any suspicious activity at all. I did hear some stories of similar activity going on at Evergreen, too, but nothing recent, for sure. I guess you have to wonder WTF people are thinking when they go to a cemetary to rob the grieving? It just doesn't speak well for what we have become as a society. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 5257 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 11:09 am: | |
Understood, Maof2. Plymouthres, I agree. I guess the people moving their ancestors believe that Detroit is the HQ for these sick degenerates. They may want to think more clearly about that. |
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 3502 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 11:10 am: | |
Wife and I went to the old Lutheran Cemetery at Mt. Elliot near E. Forest last year to visit her gt grandparents' graves. That's about as rugged an area in Detroit as there is, and we had no problem. Cemetery is well maintained, although the Packard plant looming to the east makes for a lousy photo. Funny thing was that, even though we had the precise plot numbers and staff assistance, we found the graves were unmarked. Oh, well. But none of our ancestors are going anywhere, as far as we're concerned. |
Gnome Member Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1619 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 11:18 am: | |
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Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 1065 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 11:29 am: | |
Those of you going to Holy Sepulchre Cemetary - count the number of storefront churches on Van Dyke between the Freeway and the cemetary gates. I think there are more than 30 active and abandoned. Makes you wonder whether all that church-going is useless - how is the community being raised? |
Dbc Member Username: Dbc
Post Number: 140 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 8:16 pm: | |
Detroitrise, you're joking about Michigan Avenue, right? Since when is driving down such a major thoroughfare unsafe? I mean, I've been down Davison - which, if memory serves me right, goes through much more statistically dangerous neighborhoods than those in SW Detroit - hundreds of times at all hours of the day and never once had a problem. Also, Gnome, maybe I can't read, but I don't see where the sign says to stay in your car. What's the big deal, anyway? There are signs all over the freakin' world telling people to lock their cars. |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 3391 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 8:19 pm: | |
Dbc, no I'm not. The lack of any street activity & the prostitution just doesn't comfort me. I'm sure some people feel the same way about Gratiot (even though I do not). |
Maxdetroit Member Username: Maxdetroit
Post Number: 30 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 9:12 pm: | |
Those of you going to Holy Sepulchre Cemetary - count the number of storefront churches on Van Dyke between the Freeway and the cemetary gates. I think there are more than 30 active and abandoned. Huh? Holy Sepulchre is in the semi-rural western part of Southfield near 10 & Inkster. It's nowhere near VanDyke. My wife's family is buried at Holy Sepulchre and it's exceptionally beautiful surrounded by woods with lots of wildlife, not unusual to see deer walking through the cemetery. There are several Chaldean (Iraqi Catholic) sections in the cemetery. Those are the people dressed in black. |
Grumpyoldlady Member Username: Grumpyoldlady
Post Number: 201 Registered: 06-2005
| Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 4:13 am: | |
Our next door neighbor passed away a few years ago. At the funeral home, after the service, the pastor invited everyone to attend the burial of Melvin in his front yard! He had told his children that he didn't want to be buried in a regular cemetery, so they filed some legal papers and had a small portion of the property...I think it was 1/16th of an acre, designated as a private cemetery. Yup! Melvin is planted in his front yard under the big oak trees. There is a white picket fence around an area about 12x16'. Last time I was back there, there was no headstone, just flowers where the grave is. For those of you saying "No Way!", this is in rural Minnesota, and this family owns about 500 acres. The farmhouse sits way back from the highway...probably about 3/8 mile and isn't visible from the road. After his death, they decided to divide up the farm acreage, and sell the house and 40 acres separately. Well, NOBODY wants to buy with Melvin in the front yard. And they can't understand why...lol. Well, at least his family doesn't have to worry about getting mugged when paying their respects and tending his grave. |
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 3507 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 9:15 am: | |
Is there a headstone or marker on Melvin's grave, Grumpy? I'm kind of thinking "good for him!". Wouldn't keep me from buying the property if'n I was interested. I'd even keep the immediate area tidy. |
Grumpyoldlady Member Username: Grumpyoldlady
Post Number: 202 Registered: 06-2005
| Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 10:46 am: | |
Last time I was back at the house, I didn't see any marker or headstone. That was over a year ago. Perhaps there is one now. I personally think it would be kind of novel to have someone buried in your front yard, especially on a farm that is over 100 years old. I can understand some people not wanting him there, though. You should have heard the folks at the funeral home gasp when invited to the burial at his home. He was a true pioneer in organic farming and raising organically grown beef cattle. He was doing it many, many years ago. From what I understand, the locals thought his methods were crazy, and now they are common practice. His son continues to farm and raise cattle using his dad's methods. Some of the best looking Black Angus I've ever seen. Actually, my husband thinks we may have 3 unmarked graves in the woods behind our farmhouse. There are 3 grave-sized depressions in the ground...just the right width and length for the burial of an adult. He was going to do some digging to see what he could find, but then decided against it...didn't want to disturb any Native American spirits if that is who is buried there..IF anyone is. |
Trainman Member Username: Trainman
Post Number: 737 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 2:55 pm: | |
If we pass the NEW one half per cent county sales tax for Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties then the next group of people to move out of Detroit will be the homeless. They will move into the vacant homes in the slums of Livonia and Warren as people move to the next county to avoid paying county sales taxes. |
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 3515 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 3:44 pm: | |
In Indianapolis, they recently moved an entire old cemetery (about 50 burials) when the I-69 to I-465 interchange was getting ready to be rebuilt. That's when you first hit the Indy beltway from 69. They did it in a very structured and respectful manner. All the markers were re-installed in the new cemetery in the same orders as they were removed. (Message edited by Ray1936 on August 16, 2008) |
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 3516 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 3:49 pm: | |
Here's the original writeup on that cemetery move. I-69 cemetery relocation to begin Monday Indianapolis Star report August 9, 2007 A tiny pioneer-era cemetery located near I-69 and I-465 will be moved beginning Monday. The Indiana Department of Transportation announced today it will begin the process of relocating Whitesell Cemetery to the Pioneer section of Crown Hill Cemetery on Monday. Located just feet from I-69 on the northeast side of Indianapolis, it will be removed to make way for a highway expansion project. INDOT said cemetery relocations for highway projects are extremely rare; however this cemetery's close proximity to one of the state's most heavily traveled interchanges made relocation unavoidable. The cemetery relocation will allow for a highway project to increase capacity on one of most heavily traveled highways, I-465 and I-69. The Whitesell Cemetery is an 1800's family cemetery with approximately 30 known gravesites. Members of the Whitesell, Gentry and Wright families are buried in the cemetery. The cemetery is currently located on the 8000 block of Castleton Road in Indianapolis. The relocation, INDOT says, will be conducted by experienced archaeologists and forensic anthropologists. Work will begin with headstone removal, followed by the top layer of soil to be removed with a backhoe under the supervision of archaeologists. This will allow archaeologists to identify the grave shafts and make certain any unmarked graves are identified. No remains will be disturbed through the use of the backhoe -- all excavation of remains will be done by hand. After the grave shafts are identified, archaeologists will use hand tools to carefully excavate the graves. The excavation site will be guarded 24 hours a day; an off-duty law enforcement officer will be stationed at the site when work is not occurring. After headstone removal and backhoe work is complete, the excavation will be shielded from public view by a large tent. Only authorized personnel will be allowed onto the excavation site. The excavation process is expected to last approximately three weeks. After the excavation, preparations for re-interment will begin. During this time, forensic anthropologists will work to ensure headstones match with the corresponding remains and attempt to identify individuals interred in unmarked graves. Cemetery restoration experts will also be restoring the headstones at this time. In spring 2008, the restored Whitesell Cemetery will be relocated to the Pioneer section of Crown Hill Cemetery in Indianapolis, where it will join two other relocated pioneer cemeteries. At Crown Hill, remains from Whitesell Cemetery will be reburied in their original configuration with their original restored headstones. A new monument giving the history of the Whitesell-Gentry-Wright Cemetery will also be erected, and unmarked graves will be given grave markers. A dedication ceremony will be held after re-interment is complete. |
Thoswolfe Member Username: Thoswolfe
Post Number: 78 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 4:09 pm: | |
...Cemetery moved out of the way for urban progress- been done before.There was a cemetery at Grand River/Greenfield long ago dug up, graves moved to Grandlawn and Redford Cemetery. ...So why not move graves from areas of decline as well as from the path of progress? |
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3101 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 9:26 pm: | |
"I have visited several cemeteries in the city and I have never seen any signs like this. What cemeteries have such signs?" Look more closely. Almost all. |
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 1702 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 11:55 pm: | |
He left Detroit. http://www.detroitnews.com/app s/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200808 16/METRO/808160464 |
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku
Post Number: 2108 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 6:37 am: | |
we are burying my grandma monday at mt. olivet. she bought her plot 30- years ago and they lost the paperwork. at first they told us that they had no plots available, after finagling we got one. |
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1425 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 4:07 pm: | |
Man, I tell ya, Charlie LeDuff is amazing. I didn't read him all that much when he was at the Times, but since coming to Detroit, he just comes up with fascinating story after fascinating story. The Colbert-esque videos he's got on YouTube with Monica Conyers and others are great, too. I bet the Freep is kicking itself for not getting LeDuff to write for them. |
Karenk Member Username: Karenk
Post Number: 77 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 1:54 pm: | |
Grumpyoldlady, more than likely your burials are probably the relations of the folks who owned the farm. Most likely young children which would explain why there are no markers. You could check obits back then (whenever "then" was) and see who died from that family. Very unlikely they are Native Americans. I spend a great deal of time in Detroit cemeteries every year. I have never been creeped out in any of them. Although driving around Mt. Olivet makes me double check the door locks. As anywhere, if you're aware of your surrounding, you shouldn't have any trouble. |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3409 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 2:33 pm: | |
quote:Man, I tell ya, Charlie LeDuff is amazing. I didn't read him all that much when he was at the Times, but since coming to Detroit, he just comes up with fascinating story after fascinating story. The Colbert-esque videos he's got on YouTube with Monica Conyers and others are great, too. I bet the Freep is kicking itself for not getting LeDuff to write for them. Will he ever write an article that isn't about how fucked up Detroit is? His articles come off as condescending. I don't see him sticking around Detroit for too long. |
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1426 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 3:43 pm: | |
Hey, Iheartthed, I heart the D, too, and I just see him as telling it like it is. The MCS, the fire station and now this. These are all fascinating stories. I think he's being fair. Would it be nice to see him write something on the good happening here? Sure. But his tales haven't made me love this town any less. This cemetery story is fascinating. Especially the family of the guy who REFUSED to leave Detroit, so they wait for him to die and then move him. I find that pathetic and ignorant. I'd rather shoot myself then live in Macomb County - so long as I don't have to be buried there. |
Craig Member Username: Craig
Post Number: 976 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 7:06 pm: | |
If national press is taken at face value Rhymes is about the only one not saying "man, Detroit sucks" after reading the aforementioned writer. |
Foosie Member Username: Foosie
Post Number: 19 Registered: 07-2008
| Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 11:11 pm: | |
I walk my dog at Mt. Olivet all the time. I love to watch the hawk that resides there fly about looking for prey. |