  Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1993 Registered: 11-2003 |
"I wonder if the family took advantage of the opportunity to prop the top up and say good-bye to Grandma one more time. " That was the funniest thing I read today | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5251 Registered: 02-2005 |
You probably visit more often than most, Wormbookie. Indeed, how often do cars break down? If your car's that shitty, why are you traveling so far? And one more thing, "have you been to Detroit?••• Oh gawd, this story gets worse the more I think about it. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 852 Registered: 05-2006 |
Keep in mind that these people were giving (in their mind) sanitized, politically correct reasons why they did this. Just imagine what their private conversations were like when they came to the conclusion to move Grandma & Grandma. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 8459 Registered: 03-2006 |
Mackinaw - I don't think folks are that worried about being mugged in the cemetery itself, it is on way to and from they are probably more concerned about. Perhaps they want to move their loved ones to a place that is closer and better maintained, which of course they are free to do. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 426 Registered: 03-2005 |
This is crazy. I might understand a little if the cemetery were being poorly managed or poorly maintained but that is not at all the case with Mt. Olivet. The place is in great condition and very well maintained. How selfish are these people. Their loved ones presumably CHOSE to be buried there for eternity and they have the gusto to decide otherwise. http://www.mtelliott.com/mtoli vet.html | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 427 Registered: 03-2005 |
PG, Mt. Olivet is maintained as well as any suburban cemetery if not better. So in the cases cited, maintenance is not the issue. | ||
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster Post Number: 155 Registered: 07-2007 |
This is where fear of Detroit becomes irrational and hysterical. It is certainly one thing to not want to live in the city in this point especially with a family. There are plenty of rational reasons for this. These cases escape all rationality. As someone pointed out, how often do you visit your loved ones in the cemetery? Let's say once a month at most- so you're spending probably a total of two hours a month in the city. Most violent crime is between people who know each other and black-on-black. What are the statistical chances that your car will break down or you will be mugged? Do you normally flaunt your wealth, scream racial slurs, or have beef with a local gang? Recently it's become aware to me the suburban mentality regarding the city. I invited an old friend to visit me one evening. He declined, as it would be dark soon. I hadn't seen him in about a year. He had no idea where I lived in Detroit, just that it was Detroit, after dark. A grown man, mind you. I was a bit hurt, and pretty sure he had turned into a little girl(no offense to little girls). Another example: a suburban friend gave me a ride home from work. We passed two older white women on the corner of my street. Immediately my friend made some joke that they were old hookers. Actually they were my neighbors, and they've always been extremely friendly to me. There are endless examples. It is a mentality: Detroit is inherently and exceedingly dangerous, for any amount of time, to any person, in any situation, in any location in Detroit. Evil, rather than good, should be assumed about the inhabitants of the city. It is sickening. There will only be hope when this generation dies off. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 853 Registered: 05-2006 |
If a dead person is moved out of the city, does that mean they can no longer vote for Kwame? (as was accused in '05) | ||
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster Post Number: 156 Registered: 07-2007 |
"I don't think folks are that worried about being mugged in the cemetery itself, it is on way to and from they are probably more concerned about. " Detroit is heavily branded with those smelly trenches they call expressways. I have never seen the statistics, but I'm willing to bet your chances of being mugged on your way from Livonia to Mt. Olivet barreling down 96 at 80 miles per hour are relatively slim. In addition, say you were taking such a course(Livonia to Mt. Olivet), your time on the surface streets- all main roads- totals, round trip, less than 8 miles. Again, unless a local gang has a score to settle with you, and someone has clued them in to your approach, and they have set up an ambush, your chances of being annihilated on that strip of street a couple times a year are probably also slim. | ||
Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy Post Number: 108 Registered: 01-2008 |
Folks can argue back and forth on whether or not Detroit is a festering hell-hole. However, Detroit's cemeteries have always remained in their pristine state even when Detroit went into it's slow decline....no doubt due to private management rather than city control. Elmwood, Mt. Olivet and Woodmere are islands of beauty in a dismal swamp of decay. I grew up around Mt. Olivet and still live near the same area. As a kid, I used this "local park" to bicycle, skateboard, watch planes take off and land at City Airport and also to get psychedelic with "The Grateful Dead" in my teens and early twenties. Mt. Olivet is in better shape today than as I remember it as a youth, thanks to the efforts of it's director, Mark Gracely. Gracely even went as far as to cut the grass and keep it mowed in a local playground that the city long neglected. Boneyards such as Resurrection fit the description "MC Cemetery. Headstones are to be flat and uniform for easy maintenance and therefor blend in well with their strip mall neighbors. I wonder if Uncle Luigi and all the other dearly departed who left their beautiful necropolis will be disturbed from their eternal rest only to wander as restless spirits in suburbia. Arising from the bland Resurrection, I can see them wandering the malls re-enacting that scene from "Dawn of the Dead". That would be a real "Thriller". | ||
Mashugruskie Member Username: Mashugruskie Post Number: 24 Registered: 09-2006 |
I drive to Mt. Olivet from the Livonia area. I take Eight Mile straight to Van Dyke. I've also left Cub's Georgia Street Garden at night via Van Dyke and cruised Gratiot, too (at night). Little white woman in a minivan. That's me. Van Dyke at night isn't a dead, deserted road. It's lit (except right across from the cemetery and that's the only part that freaks me out...darkness and dead people) and there are a lot of people walking with children, cruising with their girlfriend/boyfriends and just hanging out. It looks like Telegraph to me. I don't see any difference except for the fact that it's not Dearborn. I'll continue to visit my ancestors in Detroit and wouldn't think of moving them. Detroit was their home. I can't blame anyone who wants to spend big bucks to dig up a dead person but it makes no sense to me. They're dead. Perhaps it's just old people who are scared? Or, if you're scared of being mugged at a stoplight, you're in a 3,000 lb. machine - hit the gas. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 1163 Registered: 11-2003 |
Safety was just one of the reasons they mentioned. They also talked about wanting to be close to the cemetery and wanting their grandparents to be near their parents grave and they themselves probably want to be buried there also. It's not something I would do, but I'm not going to criticize someone for making that decision. I go to Mt. Olivet quite often and I make sure I'm aware of what's going on around me, especially when I'm in the older section. I'm not that worried when I visit MO but I'm a good sized male and not a 65+ year old female. For everyone saying that these woman have an irrational fear it probably doesn't help that a lot of houses in that area have iron security gates across their front doors. That certainly doesn't give one the feeling that they're in a safe area. | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 354 Registered: 04-2008 |
In the days before city parks, Elmwood and other 19th-century cemeteries were purposely designed to give urban dwellers a rustic respite from the city. It was considered normal for people to spend Sundays at the local graveyard, dressing up the graves of loved ones and picnicking on the grounds. Up through the 1920s there were even special Sunday trolleys that took people to and from the various cemeteries. I don't know about munching a hot dog over my dad's grave at St. Hedwig's---we have a few more recreational options today---but there is something kind of beautiful about strolling quietly through a cemetery and not forgetting those who you loved and spent some of the best moments of your life with. Seems to me folks should just stay where they were originally laid to rest; for all the concerns over crime and deteriorating neighborhoods, nothing can bother them now. | ||
Frankg Member Username: Frankg Post Number: 504 Registered: 08-2007 |
From a legal perspective, I wonder who has the legal standing to request a body being moved. I can understand a spouse. I can understand the executor of an estate having such legal standing. But short of those two situations, what if one child wanted to move a parent's grave but another one didn't? What if 4 out of 5 children wanted to move a grave? What if 3 children wanted to, 2 didn't, and 14 of 23 grandchildren did? If I wanted to pick up and move my great-great grandparents from Mt. Elliott, would I have standing as just one great great grandchild to order the move? On a similar vein, if I wanted to replace the headstones of my great great grandparents, would I be able to do that as one of probably 100 great great grandchildren? I know that somebody has replaced the headstones of my great great grandparents in Mt. Elliott, probably in the 1930's or so. The style is so much different than others of the era they died. If my great great grandparents were moved I'd be curious to peek inside and see what they are wearing, see if there are personal effects buried with them, etc. I know it sounds morbid to think about it, but I wonder if he is wearing his civil war uniform, etc. But I am totally against the idea of picking up these bodies and moving them. They lived in Detroit that is where they should be buried. | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 727 Registered: 10-2003 |
A few questions to pose to yourself. How did the author find out about this obscure movement? Is it really important to the metro region? Why did the author chose to weave in the usual irrational fears? Where are the statistical comparisons to other large metro area? You have to feed the boogie man to keep him alive! | ||
Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame Post Number: 539 Registered: 12-2006 |
It was considered normal for people to spend Sundays at the local graveyard, dressing up the graves of loved ones and picnicking on the ground... Ahhh...those Victorians! LOL Gotta love 'em, for what they were, you know? I've got one set of maternal great-grandparents, one step-great grandfather, all four grandparents, plus a step-grandfather...all at Mt. Olivet. Their children, my parents and aunts/uncles are either alive or buried elsewhere. My dad is in an urn on my mom's fireplace mantle. (Catholics allow cremation, now.) The only way everybody gets moved is if I get rich and have a family mausoleum built. Otherwise, they rest in the town they help built. | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 3265 Registered: 04-2005 |
Username: Wolverine linkPost Number: 576 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 12:43 pm: No, I'd think they'd want what is best for the safety of their family. If that's the case, I can't think of anything safer than being cremated and put i a safety deposit box. Then the family can gather in the bank vault once a year. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 3501 Registered: 01-2005 |
"If my great great grandparents were moved I'd be curious to peek inside and see what they are wearing, see if there are personal effects buried with them, etc. I know it sounds morbid to think about it, but I wonder if he is wearing his civil war uniform, etc." Well, I'd wonder about the same things, Frank, not really morbid. Just natural curiosity. However, after 100 years, chances are there would be nothing left but a few bones scattered about the plot. Most coffins back then were wood, which quickly fall to normal decay. | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 580 Registered: 04-2004 |
"If that's the case, I can't think of anything safer than being cremated and put i a safety deposit box. Then the family can gather in the bank vault once a year." LOL, that's actually very much the case | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 430 Registered: 03-2005 |
I guarantee this story gets picked up nationally by some sort of "Odd News" filler bullshit in a few days. They eat stuff like this up. | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 356 Registered: 04-2008 |
Most of my family's at St. Hedwig's. The dead ones, anyway. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3379 Registered: 09-2007 |
I think the ultimate question must be brought up. What if all of this were in Chicago...? | ||
Guideboat Member Username: Guideboat Post Number: 33 Registered: 02-2008 |
Jcole, you beat me too it. Don't even risk the drive to the bank. Put them right next to the La-Z-Boy and TV. That eliminates the risk of driving. Hell, that eliminates the risk of tripping on the rug. I agree with one of the other posters - these people would smack their grandchildren's heads for spending money in such a frivolous way. I guess people are more willing to spend money on the dead than to help the living. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 854 Registered: 05-2006 |
I did some searching. Here's the application form. Doesn't look like it is very difficult to get permission to do this. http://www.bhsj.org/forms/disi nterment%20and%20reinterment.p df | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6086 Registered: 12-2005 |
After I die I don't care whether or not anyone moves my remains. Just do me one favor: Stop telling me to "get a life." At that point it's no longer motivating.  | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 3266 Registered: 04-2005 |
When I 'go' I just want to be cremated and scattered off the roof of the Motor City Casino. With the prevailing winds, I should head out toward the river and toward Lake St. Clair. Can't think of a better spot to join up with nature for the rest of eternity. | ||
Dbc Member Username: Dbc Post Number: 139 Registered: 09-2006 |
Seems like more ridiculous Detroit hysteria to me. I would really like to know the crime statistics for Mt. Olivet. The neighborhood around there is not pretty, but, as others noted, the cemetery is very well maintained and has security. For what it's worth, my Dad and aunts visit their parents at Mt. Olivet frequently and have never had a problem. I'm also pretty sure my grandparents (both sets) would not want to be moved. Even though they eventually moved to the suburbs, they chose to be buried at Mt. Olivet, and it seems improper to disrespect their wishes. The guy in the article who said he wanted his relatives moved out of the city for convenience - even though they were actually CLOSER in the city - sums it all up for me. Again, Mt. Olivet's neighborhood has seen better days, but it's not freakin' Baghdad for Christ's sake!! | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 244 Registered: 02-2006 |
How long until this thread gets the cemetary street car thread resurrected? BtW, what scares me about some cemetaries is the time that scrappers figure out how so many have chosen to be buried with their jewelry or the value of bronze markers and caskets at the local scrap dealer. | ||
Mashugruskie Member Username: Mashugruskie Post Number: 25 Registered: 09-2006 |
I don't know how many years ago it was but I do remember a florist being shot at point blank range at Forest Lawn. I think this was the early 1990's. I haven't heard of anything since then. I've never heard of any problems at Mt. Olivet who now have gatekeepers. | ||
Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame Post Number: 541 Registered: 12-2006 |
Got mugged in 1973 in Roseville at Eastgate, or whatever it was..it had a Federal's. Never, ever had a problem in Detroit, though. And I was a stupid teenager, too, and did some dumb things. Nice to know there's security at Mt. O. |
