  Sg9018 Member Username: Sg9018 Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2006 |
The residents of Palmer Woods is a barricade experiment in order to reduce crime. More in the Free Press, http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20080831/NEW S01/808310414/1003/NEWS01 Do you guys think this experiment might work and could this type of experiment could be used in other parts of the city. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 3134 Registered: 01-2004 |
Harper Woods made their barricades permanent with cul de sacs. I guess it was to keep the "undesirables" to the west from creeping into the city ? | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 656 Registered: 06-2005 |
I don't know whether it will work or not, but I want to make sure that whatever is done doesn't block cyclist access. Streets can be blocked and still leave narrow passage for bicycles. Unfortunately many communities in Metro Detroit block streets without any regard to allowing access for cyclists and to a lessor extent pedestrians. | ||
Pkbroch Member Username: Pkbroch Post Number: 99 Registered: 02-2008 |
Cut through traffic is down 50-70% according to my observations. Cycling, walking, and running are way up. A group of cyclists from Ferndale and Royal Oak who ride through on Sundays seem to like the quiet streets. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 755 Registered: 02-2007 |
I agree with a barricade, a wall, a fence, whatever is necessary to protect my home and family. Unfortunately, these barricades only deter automobile traffic...foot traffic has easy access to homes. A criminal with intentions of ripping you off will find a way, they always do. | ||
Stromberg2 Member Username: Stromberg2 Post Number: 112 Registered: 10-2006 |
Will I still be able to drive through and look at the beautiful homes? Stromberg2 | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5315 Registered: 02-2005 |
It was already designed with curvilinear, non-thru streets-- how bad was the traffic? If it can be shown to reduce crime, then the residents would have a reason to get behind it. If not, it's just a hassle for getting into and out of your own neighborhood, and something that represents all that's wrong with new suburbia being imported to the city. | ||
Dannyv Member Username: Dannyv Post Number: 347 Registered: 08-2007 |
How is it OK for the residents of Palmer Woods to block off their streets but if the residents of the Grosse Pointes were to do it it would be considered racism? They say it's being done to reduce crime but if you have a resident of the GPs doing the very same thing for the very same reason it's racism. | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 356 Registered: 11-2007 |
First, you can easily go around the barriers on a bike, although these aren't the permanent barriers so who knows what it would be like if they become permanent. Second, you can easily enter in a car, you just have to go to one of the open streets--there are just fewer of them. I have no memory of significant Sunday traffic in Palmer Woods--it was always a pleasant place to bicycle, and most of the streets are empty, but I could see people on Strathcona wishing for a little less traffic, which is no doubt why they put a barrier at the Woodward end of Strathcona. The only open Woodward entrance is Balmoral, and that is useless as a cut-through. On the other hand, they blocked off streets on the Seven Mile side that no one would ever have used for a cut-through (Lincolnshire, for instance) so I can only assume that is just to limit access. I'm fine with it if it actually accomplishes something and I think a lot of neighborhoods might consider something of the sort if it works. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 2648 Registered: 01-2006 |
Maybe, if one is so concerned about who is around and whether, or not, they might drive through the neighborhood, one should pack up their shit and move the fuck out. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5317 Registered: 02-2005 |
Dannyv, that's a decent point. Bear in mind, there are barricades on 2 of the 10 access points between Grosse Pointe Park and Detroit (Korte, which is on the tip of Windmill Point, and St. Paul Street). It is 3 of 11 if you include Goethe St., which only has a three-block stretch in GP and carries no through traffic. Indeed, the crime prevention justification for them is a good one--mainly due to car thefts, because in the west GP Park rental district many people park cars on the street. The GPP Police basically took away a couple of access points that they would otherwise have to patrol. They are protecting the property of people in that district-- one of the more diverse neighborhoods around-- which very much diminishes the race aspect of it. Now, Palmer Woods homes have large garages and carriage houses, so car theft should not be a major issue. I don't think it should be billed as racist, in the end. Just somewhat wrong-headed. On the other hand, we can chide the residents all we want, but it's their domain and if the City responds to their collective will (and this keeps people living in Detroit as opposed to Oakland County), then we might as well accept it for what it is. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 5517 Registered: 10-2003 |
GP already blocked off Korte Street. I dont remember the exact reason for it though. | ||
Dannyv Member Username: Dannyv Post Number: 348 Registered: 08-2007 |
Mackinaw, Thanks for the details regarding the GPP blocking streets. Didn't Palmer Woods have their own private security patrolling the neighborhood at one point? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5318 Registered: 02-2005 |
I don't know many details about PW. Indian Village does, right? I wouldn't be surprised. Patrick, all three of those streets have been blocked for as long as I can remember. Goethe and St. Paul are both non-thoroughfares in the rental district (blocked for the reason already described). Korte is a little different because it's in more of an upscale neighborhood. In the end, though, it's rather harmless because Korte is only 4-5 blocks long, and the neighborhood can be accessed without going out of your way via Avondale, Essex, Fairfax, or Jefferson. It seems like the PW block-offs would actually make it somewhat difficult to get to where you want to be. Subdivision style. | ||
Wallins Member Username: Wallins Post Number: 7 Registered: 06-2008 |
The barriers were put there to keep Shrek away from the home of Monica Conyers. Or else to try and keep her in the area and not out in the public making a fool of herself. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6229 Registered: 10-2003 |
They've done this recently in spots in downtown Lansing to try and physically cut off the drug trade. At the end of the day, the criminals simply adapt, and sometimes, they drive right over the newly-built curbs barriers. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 329 Registered: 10-2006 |
How could this be racist? I'm pretty sure Palmer Woods has a higher proportion of blacks than the citywide proportion. I think it's an idea worth trying. The neighborhood is already suburban, so there's no reason to keep the street "grid". | ||
Russix Member Username: Russix Post Number: 123 Registered: 11-2006 |
Im sure the barricades will help in keeping those pesky police and fire vehicles out as well. | ||
Pkbroch Member Username: Pkbroch Post Number: 102 Registered: 02-2008 |
Monica Conyers does not live in PW. They live on the golf course. | ||
Middleageguy Member Username: Middleageguy Post Number: 43 Registered: 01-2007 |
I agree with the collective will post. Amazing what collective will can do. Maybe if other neighborhoods applied some collective will years back, they'd still be desireable too. YOu can bash them for being racist, wealthy, et al, but they are keeping their neighborhood intact. THey may have been motivated by traffic problems, but I know they also have had problems with mouthbreathing pig types ripping copper gutters down in broad daylight. Canb you blame them for doing something? | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 2007 Registered: 11-2003 |
"Now, Palmer Woods homes have large garages and carriage houses, so car theft should not be a major issue. " Have you driven through there and paid attention? There are more cars out and about than in backyards. | ||
Original63 Member Username: Original63 Post Number: 2 Registered: 08-2008 |
Carriage houses and Garages have not stopped any thefts and crimes around Palmer Woods or Russell Woods,Brightmoor or anywhere else. I have noticed a drop in cars speeding thru at 3am at 50 miles an hour, and anecdotally so far a notice of fewer strangers cruising looking for opportunities to pounce. At first I opposed the closing due to the inconvenience, however I am convinced this experiment is working. Plus with all the empty foreclosed houses here including next door to me that has been broken into several times, the lessening of traffic is a good thing. In terms of being elitist you r in the wrong city at the wrong time talking like that. All my neighbors are at work every day trying to pay their bills like everyone else.This is while their houses are being broken into. So save the tired divisive rhetoric for people who don't know and don't live in this city that I and we all love. | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 939 Registered: 11-2006 |
I have two friends who live in that community. I harassed them about suggesting they were uppity snobs(playfully)How many poor and working class neighborhoods close streets? Put up the barricade and the message is clear: you are not welcome here! | ||
Original63 Member Username: Original63 Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2008 |
Sorry Terryh, I grew up in this neighborhood and moved back into it. You have snobs living in east Detroit now called east pointe, those r snobs. If each Detroit community actually functioned as one we all would have far fewer problems than we do now. Collective efforts change communities, we have taken up a collective effort here. There is the same access to the thief that I have. That is not snobbery but equal access, plus the police will follow me around in Grosse Pointe not here in Detroit, but I guess they r the unwelcome wagon, huh? | ||
7051 Member Username: 7051 Post Number: 148 Registered: 02-2006 |
Middle class communities such as Royal Oak, Hazel Park, Oak Park, etc. have blocked off streets too. These blocked streets were in response to traffic patterns and probably eliminated some future crime as well (eliminates quick in and quick out). Their locations-all along I-696. Hopefully, the University District is soon to follow. |
