Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » Detroit & Grand Rapids Among Riskiest Markets? « Previous Next »
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1783
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This really has been us for years. Again, Detroit has always been a reflection of America as a whole. Also, there is a Detroit mention in this article;

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/ news?pid=20601039&refer=column ist_wasik&sid=a0lrJfyeZrRY

Quotes:

"The spillover penalty begs a question that has yet to be answered: Who would want to buy in a community where homes are boarded up; the tax base is depleted; and public services are so underfunded that they have to cut programs or raise levies?"

"The most imperiled areas were ravaged by subprime lending for those with below-average credit ratings. Minority communities were hardest hit."

" The Detroit and Grand Rapids, Michigan areas; Akron and Cleveland, Ohio; Bakersfield, Modesto, Riverside-San Bernardino and Stockton, California; and Memphis, Tennessee, were the riskiest markets from Feb. 8 to July 8, according to San Juan Capistrano, California-based HomeSmartReports.com, which tracks housing- market safety."

How are our neighborhoods doing? It was mentioned awhile ago, on here, that some thought the mortgage crisis, along with high gas prices, could actually help Detroit. Has this been the case... at all?

Is it harder to rent in Detroit now? Are they turning away families with ruined credit from foreclosures or bankruptcy?
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Servite76
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Username: Servite76

Post Number: 75
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not sure of what the answer is to your question Sean, but I'm just curious. I admire the torch you carry for Detroit. I myself grew up in Detroit and have fond memories growing up there, as do many posters on this board. It seems the majority of us enjoy sharing those experiences. I normally wouldn't ask this, because it isn't any of my business, but you've left yourself open to question. I say this because of your asking advise on housing, jobs, wedding plans etc, which I hope is going well. What is this great adoration you have with living in Detroit? Other communities or should I say neighborhoods outside Detroit hold the same values without any trepidation. I don't know how old you are, but once upon a time, I too thought I would never want to leave the place I loved and grew up in. But the reality is, there just aren't enough people like you and the many others on this board to make Detroit what it once was. Sometimes I think the only people that care about Detroit or mankind for that matter are on this board. I'm still a dreamer and haven't given up, but as I grow older, I've shifted gears and have since created lasting memories for my children in the neighborhood and city that they've grown up in. Please don't get me wrong, you should be commended for your desire and passion.
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Detroitbred
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Username: Detroitbred

Post Number: 108
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well said Servite, I feel like that too.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 3465
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

>Servite76

You do realize that the commentary is talking about the metropolitan Detroit market, right?
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Servite76
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Username: Servite76

Post Number: 77
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes I do, the question was directed at Sean. This to me seemed like the perfect forum to ask Sean instead of starting a thread regarding my curiosity. I'm very aware of Sean's passion to the city and finding a cure for its survival. It's not my intent to call Sean out. He needn't feel compelled to even respond, but I feel the need to know his attachment. Thanks Ihearted.
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Youngprofessionaldetroiter
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Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 329
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^don't know about Sean, but I'll tell you mine. The opportunity is enormous. I come from an investment background as far as my vocation, and am an entrepreneur to the core. As they say, "Buy when there's blood in the streets".

Detroit is like a horribly undervalued company that suffers from mismanagement and a difficult business environment. But given the right leadership and behavior, the price to invest is low, and the prizes are huge. Those who can rise to the challenges in leadership -- both political and professional -- will be heavily rewarded...and the competition is very sparse.

Servite and Detroitbred, I'm too young to remember the glory days of Detroit. Heck, I barely remember anything before 1992. They simply don't exist in my consciousness or memory. So when I see Detroit, I don't see the tragic end to a once beautiful city. I see the troubled city I grew up with and how much nicer it has become since 2000. (at least the parts I frequent, anyway).

I think now is the best combination of crisis and fresh talent. Crisis creates political motivation. And fresh talent will slowly bring in new ideas without holding on to stale ideologies and political strongholds. It's not without obstacles and challenges, nor will it be easy. But certainly doable.

I truly believe that, and it may be self-serving...but I see Detroit as a great turnaround opportunity, just as corporate raiders do on Wall Street.

And what is there to lose? Heck, you can even buy a property for $1.

YPD

(Message edited by youngprofessionaldetroiter on September 15, 2008)
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1787
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The people.
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Izzyindetroit
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Username: Izzyindetroit

Post Number: 81
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^ lol that is the shortest post you have ever posted. I would have to agree with you though.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 2179
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great opportunity to turn the city around with the only one thing happening. Total police crackdown on crime and violence. I mean TOTAL crackdown on crime. Other than that no one with any big money will invest. That is the bottom line. Ella could not handle it. That is the fact jack.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1331
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Detroit has always been a reflection of America as a whole.



sean, don't be so modest. the entire milky way galaxy looks at detroit to gauge the human condition.

paf!
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 1275
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"No one big will invest."

I agree to a point, but with a twist - to pick up momentum, that needs to happen, sure.

However, Peter Karmanos, Dave Bing, Mike Ilitch, General Motors, Roger Penske are all big and they've invested.

The problem isn't the big folks, who will draw people to them no matter where they are because they are so big - it's the small ones. THAT is what's going to be most affected by an improvement in the security situation.

And yes, all in all, the people are great in the city.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1792
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 4:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I ran this through a spell check, but didn't have time to do more than a speed read. I try to keep the etiquette, but am not going to hire an editor.

Anyway...

I am heavily misunderstood on here, and on other sites. Some of you who talk to me outside of here, might agree.

I never ever used to say much at school, or even at work, once I graduated. I really got a kick out of those who make fun of my posts, or told a couple of fellow posters that they were crazy for doing a mini road trip with me. They think they actually know the first thing about me. I'd say they are extremely judgmental, lonely, and clueless people. That is, if I had to develop a opinion of them (I don't think it's very hypocritical, since they told me all I needed to know, to know where they stand in the game. I really think I'm way past them, which is the reason I don't even bother to read the "hate mail", past the title line of the letter). The ones who like to talk, are the ones who love to sit around and gossip, and spread the rumors. At least, that is how I see it.

I try not to talk, unless I have something to say (such as right now). I do a poor job of getting to the point, when making posts. Public speaking is not my strongest point, but is one I am working on. The other problem is that I constantly have to spell everything out to anyone I'm debating. It caused me to get in a habit of stating the obvious, or waiting for someone else to do it.

In person, I am outgoing, with a good attitude. That really is all choice though. It's who I wanted to be. Attitude, views, lifestyle, success... they're all strategies of the game. I had the same choices everyone else has. Obviously, I'm still making my share of large mistakes (I should have figured that that festival would be postponed. I should have still had the means to attend Open City this past Tuesday). I'm still not out of the woods (if it's even possible), and still "blowing in the wind" on some days. Maybe that's why they call this "building a foundation".

Yes, it's all a game. Action... and your attitude, is a response to whatever card you're dealt. It's all half chance for everyone (whether they believe it or not). Likewise, action and attitude (your reaction) is the other half. That's all that separates anybody from everybody else.

Does that make sense, or am I rambling again? Whatever, I like it. LOL!

I got to go get those pictures up for you guys, and put my new displays together. LOL, we have work to do. Hopefully many of the Detroiters on here do too. So... keep going! For a couple other people... heh... keep talking. You'll figure it all out one day. Probably the day it becomes apparent we outlasted you.

PS: If you don't get that last paragraph, don't bother to ask. It was meant for the "haters". I have several, both on and off line. I'm just trying to take the opportunity to cover two birds with one stone, you could say.

(Message edited by Sean_of_Detroit on September 17, 2008)
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Servite76
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Username: Servite76

Post Number: 78
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 5:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Sean,
and your spelling looks fine.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1796
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 6:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My "bio" is somewhere in the archives on this site. One topic was about my last big failure. Another was around post number fifteen, and another was in a thread talking about a letter someone wrote into the Free Press. They were leaving the Hubbard Farms area, because they were fed up with Detroit.

Most of my other posts are probably junk, lol.

Anyway, how are those neighborhoods doing with foreclosures?
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 5372
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How can Detroit be that risky? It's already dropped so low. It would be hard to lose a lot of money in Detroit, but with a little diligence there is money to be made.

This was probably a list made from a cursory glace at metro-wide foreclosure rates.
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Youngprofessionaldetroiter
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Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 339
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 10:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^Yeah. Market psychology is a bitch. Things are actually most risky when everyone is optimistic. When everyone is pessimistic, smart money is buying in.
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Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 1283
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It IS a bitch. It's all perception and rarely reality. One of the biggest challenges I had to face when it comes to Detroit was that people will think whatever they want is the truth, regardless of the reality on the ground.

YPD, you seem like the kinda guy who would read "Freakanomics." It makes all kinds of points that people do a generally bad job of assessing risk, as well as the hidden economies of things. It's not gospel, but it does make you think.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1798
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Group Dynamics!

YPD, you bring that theory up all the time (often in your own words). It's a good thing. Very smart thinking.

That really is from the same thought process.
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Youngprofessionaldetroiter
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Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 353
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

One of the biggest challenges I had to face when it comes to Detroit was that people will think whatever they want is the truth, regardless of the reality on the ground.



Ain't that the truth. I know I've brought this up in other threads, but it can't be said enough.

There are great investment and development opportunities, but as you say, perceptions are against us. The thing is...given time and good salesmen, perceptions can be changed. The problem is that Detroit has shi**y salesmen. Of course, I don't mean this toward anyone personally. But as a culture, there is this neurosis of taking the victim mentality when things don't go our way. For example, there was this thread about Detroit losing population and Canton gaining. So one reaction is to hate on Canton and the stupid people moving there. Or another reaction is to do better job of selling people on being in Detroit. Which one is more likely to work?

It's hard for me to put into words, but there's like a theme of entrepreneurship vs. loyal employee in here somewhere. And Detroit's got lots of loyal employees but we need more entrepreneur values.

If we're gonna continue to rebuild Detroit, we need to remember that outsiders are the people we want to WIN OVER, not FIGHT AGAINST. And you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

YPD

ps loved Freakanomics... :-)

(Message edited by youngprofessionaldetroiter on September 17, 2008)
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 2214
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All urban low income areas. What happened.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 388
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sean, most people don't understand most people so don't take it so personally, or as Dr. Phil says: "You wouldn't worry so much about what people thought of you if you knew how seldom they did."
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Masterblaster
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Username: Masterblaster

Post Number: 220
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A few posters say its the PEOPLE that attract them to the city of Detroit. But it is also THE PEOPLE that have driven many, many more people away than they attract.

The PEOPLE that have allowed their public school system to decline so much that its one of the worst in the nation

The PEOPLE that have all these children when they are not married, and don't have the resources to take care of them - too many of these children end up growing up with no fathers and turn into the criminals who:

car jack
stick people up
break into other people's property
steal anything that isn't bolted down
lack respect for anybody or anybody else's property

The PEOPLE who burn down buildings and houses for fun and vandalize them as well.

The PEOPLE who don't value education enough to graduate from high school, and who value short-term gratification (like expensive cars and jewelry, and showing off/how tough they are) over long-term goals (like higher education and learning a trade)

The PEOPLE who tolerate litter all over there lawns and streets.

The PEOPLE who tolerate blight, prostitution, graffiti, stripping aluminum off houses, drug trafficking, swatting, unkept lawns and property

The PEOPLE - the only retail we can attract in this city is liquor stores, coney islands, check cashing, auto repair, gas stations, fast food, and barber/hair salons.

The PEOPLE - who about 70% of the THOUSANDS that I asked would not sign the petition to recall Mayor Kilpatrick.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO YOU LOVE SO MUCH!
THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DRIVING PEOPLE AWAY and keeping others from living/investing here, AND THEY OUTNUMBER THE TYPE OF PEOPLE who have endeared themselves to you 100 to 1!

The challenge of the city of Detroit is too get those many thousands of unproductive people who are living a mediocre or subpar existence to some how have a change of heart, to change the way they go about living their lives, to change the way they see the world, and how they fit in it.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 389
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent post, Masterblaster! I just think it's a case of Sean not associating with "those" people you mentioned. Apparently it's possible for an optimistic, idealistic Detroiter to surround him/herself with enough like-minded individuals that they lose touch with the other 70% (your number) or 98% (my number) of the population.

Edit: Oops, I guess "your number" should have been 99% ("100 to 1"). Gee, I guess that makes me more of an optimist than you. Imagine that!

(Message edited by Retroit on September 18, 2008)
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Youngprofessionaldetroiter
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Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 354
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^One way to stay optimistic and idealistic is to not try to make 70% or 98% of Detroit better. Frankly, I'd be happy if we had a 6-block by 6-block square filled with retail, residential, professional, and nightlife.

So frankly, I'm not associating with the other 70% or 98%. I'm spending time with the few who are interested in working with me on helping build my 6 blocks. Coming from Ann Arbor, "x square miles surrounded by reality", this is probably not a surprise. But there's no other way. You can't rebuild Detroit all at once. You have to do it one section at a time. It could take 50 years to the city become a fully functional, healthy city. But it'll only take 3-5 to get my 6 blocks nice and shiny. Hopefully if we can use little sections as an example for revitalization/gentrification, then we'll have an easier time accelerating it in "the other 98%".
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 390
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

True, YPD, but it would be incorrect to say you love the "whole" city when all you really love is your 6x6 block enclave.
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Youngprofessionaldetroiter
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Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 355
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fair enough. I don't love the whole city. As politically incorrect as this is, I'll be blunt and say I dislike much of the city. But I do care about the city. And I care about it enough to work on the 6x6 in Detroit rather than in the suburbs, knowing that it'll gradually work its way out.

What's the alternative? Work on a 6x6 enclave in Novi? No thanks.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 393
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't try to be politically correct. We can't deal with reality till we acknowledge what that reality is.

I agree though, why build a new neighborhood on the edge of civilization ("exurbs") when you can build it right in the heart of the city?
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1808
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 2:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MB, and Retroit,

You guys got it all wrong... It's kind of late right this second though...
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Ray
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Username: Ray

Post Number: 1146
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 2:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The simple reason why we root for the city of Detroit is that: (a) we are tied to the region by family or career; (b) we loath living in the suburbs: and (c) we hope and pray that Detroit will develop a viable if small facsilie of successful urban living lke Chicago or other cities.

I live in Birmingham and work in Troy, and after living in chicago and Sf, I wouldn't shit on the best part of birmingham. Yet to live in proximity to my family, it is the best maybe only option available in SE Michigan. If it weren't for my family, Id move to Manhattan or SF or Chi or DC in a nano second and never set a toe in this godforsaken shithole wasteland known as suburban Detroit.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1809
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 5:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray, you have to be proud of where you're from though, you know?

MB,

Yup! Your damn right those are the people I love. Yes... I do care about the people who even still are trying to support Kwame. That's how it goes. The drug dealers, the criminals, the hopeless... Americas throw away people. "Oh my God, they killed Kenny!?" Yeah, no one cares when they die either, and I'm sick of thee indifference of the suburbs.

You know, it's the system, not the people. There is no difference in people. Criminals are your neighbors. They aren't a group. It's not a group. You don't have criminals in one group, and then everybody else in another. There all the same group.

People make mistakes, and everybody has a shady side (madness? Yes, many have been through Hell and back. We all really do go a little mad some times... depending on the situation. The shooting over a chicken wing, was not over a chicken wing. It was someones boiling point). I mentioned Detroit Rapper "Proof" who died, not to long ago... and the armed forces gentlemen who died as well.

Detroit lost two great people that day. It really did... It's irrelevant who started it, all that matters is they're gone. Those where two role models that died, why?

How does it go... "you might be tangled in the web... but it's the spider that ends up being your problem".

It's not the people that did wrong (in majority of the cases, I would think). It's the cause. Those people did not kill Detroit. You can blame that on our previous generations, who built a nice web for all of Michigan, to get stuck in. Now we're here battling giant spiders; poor schools, blight, high insurance, etc.

To top that all off, a number of the suburbs are so very racist. They don't even get it. You have a group of people that enslaved many Americans... and stopped them from getting established. Then, they ended up leaving them with a destroyed city. We should be outraged! Instead, of that, everyone just picked up and left their mess, always avoiding cleaning it up (that is what it is right? They don't want to clean up the soda pop they spilled on the rug, or ...GASP... they don't want to pay/work to fix it).

So... they sit, forever benefiting from the original head start... forever indifferent.

Oh, and as for the city corruption, and money problems; you really are overlooking the mess. Of course the suburbs are doing better... they started with a clean slate. All they have to do is maintain. Detroit, on the other hand, has to do the nearly impossible monumental task of cleaning up the suburbanite's mess... AND THEN they have to maintain it at the same time.

That is all not even the half of it either.

Every single baby born and raised in the City of Detroit, faces insurmountable odds. Most will die, or end up in prison (slavery never died, it's here right this second, in our American justice system). Let's just through them away... who really cares, right?

Retroit,

Do you see planes? That is usually a sign we are on Fantasy Island.

I wish I was with you there. I ate at the McDonalds in New Center the other day. There was a lady I met, sitting all alone. Homeless, she was striking up small talk, and ended up showing me a card for her son, who was dieing over in Henry Ford Hospital... I helped her out, talked to her (she had no one else, it turns out), and offered her a ride.

I have two immediate family members (with families of their own), who had there houses foreclosed on... and I honestly know not a soul who can help them. Lay-offs... and hard times... God, do you actually think you can surround yourself with like-minded people in Fantasy Land? It's more the opposite. I'm optimistic FOR them!

Sigh... you don't even know...

(Message edited by Sean_of_Detroit on September 20, 2008)
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Servite76
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Username: Servite76

Post Number: 79
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 5:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sean, I thought I was the only one who got up this early on a Saturday. Work!! I haven't had time to read all of your post yet. Priorities..Coffee first.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1810
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am!

LOL!

Set-up at the bazaar starts at 8am, and we had a problem. We had no covering for our table, and I drove all over Detroit to try to find one. Eventually we had to settle on CVS on Warren, who only had a black one for Halloween Season (only two left).

Hey... where can you buy table clothes near Midtown (both cloth and disposable)?

Oh, and the problem is, I don't like hot coffee. I let it sit for a couple hours first.

Political correctness isn't awake, that early in the morning...

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