  Youngprofessionaldetroiter Member Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter Post Number: 367 Registered: 07-2008 |
If we want the city of Detroit to become a better place, 2 things need to happen. (1) We need to do better with the resources we have. (2) We need more money. I'd like to talk about #2 for a second. I grew up in a lower-middle class household. At no time did we have fewer than 6...and sometimes we had more than 10 people in our house. I know what it feels like to experience condescension from people who have means and am still sensitive to it today. That said, the city needs to cater to those people and attract them to the city if you want a safe place and safe neighborhoods. If there's one thing rich people bring to a city, it's more resources for security. So, I think it's time to let go of our egos and aversion to the rich. The same condescension that tends to come with wealth isn't unique to Detroit vs. the suburbs, you know? It's the same (or worse) in Chicago and New York. The only difference is that in Chicago and New York, the city caters to those people to keep them in the city. In Detroit, we push them away and wonder why we have to keep cutting our police and fire budget. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 503 Registered: 06-2007 |
YPD, I don't see any problems with keeping rich people safe. I do see a problem with creating 'gated communities' on prime property that is better suited for mixed income, mixed use developments. cheers | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 765 Registered: 07-2007 |
What do you base these claims on? Some of the most affluent neighborhoods in the city have been recipients of some of the targeted tax breaks that the city has given out through the Neighborhood Enterprise Zones . | ||
Youngprofessionaldetroiter Member Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter Post Number: 369 Registered: 07-2008 |
quote: Meh...I admit to be uninformed. All my claims are based on anecdotal, not quantitative, evidence. But I do sense that there's a resentment from within the city toward the suburbs, especially the wealthy suburbs. I see it in the the way things went down when Thompson offered $200 million to build new charter schools in the city, the way Kwame tried to portray his downfall as the powerful taking advantage of the oppressed, etc. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am. As for the neighborhood enterprise zones, I sense resentment that tax breaks are given to the people that can afford some of the most expensive homes and condo units in the city. Sort of a, "why are we giving tax breaks to the rich" vibe. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 921 Registered: 07-2004 |
The richest areas of a city can sometimes be the blandest. Most of the places and districts people love to hang out in, are actually middle class, and sometimes even lower middle class, etc. A city needs everyone though, and people should not be against the rich. But like I said, usually it is not the super upper income areas that are popular. I know in Toronto for example, hardly anyone hangs out in the rich districts. They are some of the most quiet and dead places in terms of vibrancy. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 865 Registered: 04-2006 |
I feel about rich people the same way I feel about suburbs. It doesn't bother me that they exist, but most of them aren't very interesting to spend time with. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6263 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread, at all. Detroit government has been bending over backwards trying to attract the wealthy and big business for years, now. Whatever the neighborhoods feel is almost irrelevant as far as city government is concerned. In fact, it wasn't until Kilpatrick created the Next Detroit Neighborhood Initiative that the poor and working-class neighborhoods of Detroit were targeted for city attention in any kind of comprehensive manner. And, really, this was small crumbs considering that Kilpatrick was the suburban communities choice for mayor in 2001. I'd hardly say that Detroit government's problem is that it's been to adversarial to the wealthy. In fact, it's quite the opposite. And, given Cockrel's background and that of his father's, I suspect we'll see more attention on what's important: those neighborhoods that can be saved as well as downtown, instead of the either/or proposition Detroit is presented with, so often. Really, forget about the rhetoric; what counts are the actions, and the actions of city government time and time again have given preference to the wealthy. Their focus has been on one massive silver bullet after the next with little regard to the city as a whole. There is nothing comprehensive about Detroit government's view of its city. (Message edited by lmichigan on September 21, 2008) | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 2619 Registered: 09-2006 |
Wouldn't there have to be rich people living in the city for city residents to be resentful towards them? | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 866 Registered: 04-2006 |
No. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 2621 Registered: 09-2006 |
So how exactly are we so certain that there is a anti-rich person sentiment? | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 867 Registered: 04-2006 |
We aren't. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 2622 Registered: 09-2006 |
So what is the point again? | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 868 Registered: 04-2006 |
Can't help you there. | ||
Youngprofessionaldetroiter Member Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter Post Number: 371 Registered: 07-2008 |
quote: I may have been to hasty. Or maybe I'm using the wrong words. I guess it's kind of related to the anti-suburb sentiment...and again, I refer to Thompson's $200 million gift we turned away. Whatever it is, there's something there, and I can't put my finger on it. quote: I don't think so. I'd say it's probably easier to resent wealthy cities in Oakland county simply because we can point to them and see them as outsiders. And hey...I'm not talking about the DYes forumers when I'm talking about Detroiters. I'm pretty well convinced that the people who vote here are pretty conscientious, well-meaning, and seem mostly open minded even to positions contrary to their own. I'm talking about Joe Sixpack. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 2624 Registered: 09-2006 |
I think the Thompson thing was basically all about politics, not a class issue. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 1896 Registered: 08-2007 |
It was about politics, it was about race, it was about class ... the only thing it wasn't about? Education. Detroit hates being told anything. Soon as L. Brooks or Lansing has a suggestion you get the plantation card thrown into the conversation. Remember the bottled water dust up 3 - 4 yrs back? The water department was spending $175,000 a year on bottled water. When that fact was brought up in the news, the response? Anyone remember? | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 766 Registered: 07-2007 |
From day to day, I think the residents of Detroit give about as much thought to the residents of Bloomfield Hills as the residents of Bloomfield Hills give to the residents of Detroit. Very little. I understand what you are trying to get at YPD but the major battles between Detroit and the suburbs and within Detroit usually have very little to do with what's best for "the rich people". Even this discussion is peddling in stereotypes. Novi is one of more wealthy suburbs. But we also have the second highest number of manufactured home units in Oakland County. So outside of a few stratified places like Bloomfield Hills, the "rich suburb, poor Detroit" analogy often breaks down when you start digging past the surface. | ||
Greatlakes Member Username: Greatlakes Post Number: 252 Registered: 07-2007 |
I believe YPD means attracting "rich people" as in attracting those who would live in Manhattan rather than the Hamptons. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2911 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: I'll echo what others have said. Thompson's gift drew outrage because it was for charter schools. Lots of people have given large gifts for other purposes and been met with only "thank yous". Charter schools are unpopular - even though though thousands of parents are flocking to them. I argue this is because there's a bunch of DPS employees who don't like the idea of working for a living. There are, however, those who disagree with my assessment. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 2296 Registered: 07-2007 |
Rich vs poor. Fodder for politicians to play on to get votes. Class envy psychology used very well by the k st operators. | ||
Bragaboutme Member Username: Bragaboutme Post Number: 522 Registered: 02-2008 |
Lets get this straight Detroit is not poor, it is the area in our manufacturing region that has suffered the most as far as job loss is concerned. Oakland County has gained the most by Detroits losses, such as growth of wealth, jobs, etc (you all got fat while we starved). It isn't a resentment towards rich it's a resentment towards those who shut the door on Detroit and only open it to fattened their pockets and only claimed it when people on the outside looking in shuned them for turning their backs on thier own City when they are all in the same area. Of the Big three counties (Wayne, Macomb, and Oakland) all eat off of Detroit with very little return. Not until we had the Super Bowl did people start changing their minds about Detroit. This is the Anti- that was created when the balance shifted to other areas of our region. But this City is not poor interms of money because Detroit doesn't stop at the boarders of 8mile. There was and still is mass abandonment of an area of our southeastern region which is known as Detroit. When is it broken down the land area in which money is put back into this City is small compared to other cities, and that is the only difference between Detroit and other thriving areas of our size. To put it into perspective Detroit (until rescently) wasn't the main focus of this region and that is the main reason for resentment from both sides. Detroit has a base of wealth, but this region is rapidly losing its Middle-class and that is what we need for this area to grow. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 1147 Registered: 06-2004 |
The whole region has always been hobbled with class antagonism. When I was a kid, I lived in a subdivision with dads who were TV repairmen, tool and die makers, supervisors at a Ford assembly plant, etc. The next sub was down a notch on the socio-economic scale, and at school, the kids in my sub were "rich", which was thrown about like an the way you might call someone a "bitch". My singular recollection of life in suburban detroit was the envy and hatred of any group that had greater income than yours, juxtaposed ironically with the absolute contempt for education and knowlwedge. The only insult worse than being "rich" was being a "brain" which meant you got above a B+ on a test. It's a culture of failure, not unlike what I imagine goes on in the inner city where if you do good at school you're too "white." Then I moved away to other cities, where education and success where valued. What a shock. All my childhood I assumed that the dysfunctional culture of Metropolitan Detroit was universal. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 586 Registered: 06-2007 |
"Novi is one of more wealthy suburbs. But we also have the second highest number of manufactured home units in Oakland County." I dont dispute this, but whos number 1? | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 768 Registered: 07-2007 |
We're #4! Novi's no longer #2. I hadn't checked the numbers recently. The top 3 are Clinton Township, Macomb Township and Canton Township. Courtesy of SEMCOG. http://library.semcog.org/Inma gicGenie/DocumentFolder/mhrepo rt2007.pdf | ||
Youngprofessionaldetroiter Member Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter Post Number: 380 Registered: 07-2008 |
quote: I wasn't rich, but I was a brain. Kids made fun of me, saying that I was going to go to "Harvard". I spent most of my childhood trying to prove that I could have fun too. It wasn't til college (didn't make it to Harvard) that I learned that you could be smart, captain of the lacrosse team, and a bartender. They're not mutually exclusive. I'm quite sure that class antagonism isn't unique to Detroit, but it sure seems very much behind a lot of the dysfunctional politics in the region. | ||
Thames Member Username: Thames Post Number: 237 Registered: 02-2007 |
When I was a kid, none of that shit mattered. We were all just kids. Socio-economic scale? As a kid, who cared? Unless you count the fact that Suzie S. a few doors down from me had the Barbie camper and I didn't. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5229 Registered: 06-2004 |
YPD, you're really showing you don't know much at all about the region or its history. Here's a list: http://www.michigan.gov/hal/0, 1607,7-160-18835_18897-57682-- ,00.html Read at least the titles related to Detroit. | ||
Youngprofessionaldetroiter Member Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter Post Number: 385 Registered: 07-2008 |
quote: Man...it's like social justice issues seem to always be with us. I saw the first part of this title, and then my jaw hit the floor when I read 1880-1920. Sigh. Ok, Lilpup, I'll start reading...YPD | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 588 Registered: 06-2007 |
I dont think its an anti-rich sentiment, its "anti-snob." I don't believe all that many people have problems with someone like Penske who brings his race into town for a weekend and cleans up a bunch of litter while he's at it. Its the judgemental people who base others worth on their income level or education. Just remember.The real snobs won't take part-time jobs at a dry cleaners or grocery store, but they sure have no problem patronizing such places.Growing up around Birmingham/Troy, Ive seen plenty of wealth, so attracting and retaining them was never an issue.I had more of a problem with the constant demolition of older, cheaper housing to make way for something far more expensive. Its almost like they are trying to kick out the very people they all rely on to serve them at establishments they frequent. Lets be honest. A Meijer employee likely isnt going to buy a $350,000 Townhouse. The rich can afford to maintain their neighborhoods and have the money to put into the communities. But they need the lower-class to get by on their day to day activities. I think places like Farmington Hills are the perfect mix. Much of the cities population has a higher income bracket, and those folks have money to put towards funding for great schools, good police protection, etc. But yet, on the south side, near the famed Flamingo Trailer court, you have a real working class population. One person makes the sandwiches the other person buys.Even in Troy, the mobile home park is still in buisness, giving at least a little bit of an option of nearby housing for people working at all those restaraunts along Rochester. |
