Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » Vintage LIFE Pictures - 1967 Riot Aftermath Aerial « Previous Next »
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 540
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Recently, Google partnered with TimeLife and now has made available its archives of photos from the magazine's history, most of which have never been published.

As I get time, I will downsize and share them here. First up are aerial pictures of the aftermath of the 1967 riots. There are many interesting ones from the riots. I encourage our resident sleuths to figure out where all these are.

1.




2.




3.




4.




5.




6.




(Message edited by cman710 on November 18, 2008)
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Urbanart
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Username: Urbanart

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Picture #4 appears to be the intersection of Grand River, Warren, and 16th Street.
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 3497
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1.) epicenter: 12th and Clairmount Avenue ?

4.) Grand River (and Warren I believe). Its where 555 gallery and the architectural salvage place is. Grand River is the road going up and to the left.
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Scottr
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Username: Scottr

Post Number: 932
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cman, I just came here to start a thread on these pics, and saw you beat me by half an hour. There are far more of these encompassing all parts of Detroit (and beyond) - from Gordie Howe, to the Golden Jubilee, to unemployment lines, to, well, nearly anything. And this is only 20% of the pics they ultimately plan on digitizing!

Anyone who wants to look for themselves, I highly recommend it:
http://images.google.com/hoste d/life
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Reuel
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Username: Reuel

Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are those the "before" or the "after" shots?
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 541
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Scottr, if you would like to continue and post some of them, please do! My time is limited, so if you wanted to do that, I would not mind!
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 543
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since I already had these saved, here are 6 more.

7.




8.




9.




10.




11. Squint and see if you can see Ray!




12.


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Jcole
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Username: Jcole

Post Number: 4725
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is #10 at the Lightguard Armory?
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Larryinflorida
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Username: Larryinflorida

Post Number: 3361
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I grew up close to it. I don't recognize the terrain.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 2098
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The "LIFE photo archive hosted by Google" site clearly indicates that those photos are under copyright. You need to be very careful when posting them anywhere under "fair use" provisions. At a minimum you should be including:
a) the "Life" watermark that appears in the lower right corner of each full size photo
b) a photo credit within each post
c) a link back to the full size version of each photo.

Even after taking all of those precautions, it could be argued by a lawyerly type that the reproduction by someone else of a large number of the copyright holder's photos in a single place extends beyond "fair use", which is usually limited to short excerpts of a body of work.
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Cman710
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Username: Cman710

Post Number: 546
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Mikeg,

As a lawyer myself, I understand your concerns. I acknowledge that it might be best to take some of the steps that you indicated. Since I have limited time because of my job, I was unable to resize the full version of each photo, nor take the time to provide credits for each photo. In the future, ScottR will likely be posting these, and perhaps he will do that.

If you want to get technical, every photo that anyone posts here and which has been taken in the last 50-60 years is a prima facie violation of copyright law, unless the poster holds the copyright or has gotten permission to post the photo.

"Fair use" is determined by reference to four factors that court's have used, but which are frequently unclear. I am not going to go into that analysis here, but suffice it to say that some weigh in favor of fair use and others weigh against it. It probably is a fair use, since the aim is for study, I would argue, and not commercial use. I am not marketing these downsized photos for sale, but am using them to elicit comments and historical information. If you care to evaluate these issues more in depth, I would be happy when I get the time.
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 3501
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is #10 selfridge ANG base ?
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Oladub
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Username: Oladub

Post Number: 911
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

12th Street at ground level after the riot.


12th street 1






-Brownie box camera photos by oladub
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Detroit313
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Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 760
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Impressive!

<313>
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Philbo
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Username: Philbo

Post Number: 38
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great stuff Cman! I'm almost sure photo 4 was taken at Grand River and Warren as I've seen a similar photo before. One of the businesses there was Topp furniture sales. Another huge blaze was set at Grand River/14th not too far frome there.
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Detroitjim
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Username: Detroitjim

Post Number: 51
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That was the first incident that accelerated the flight to suburbs. A coworker, who was a juvenile at the time, said the size of his classrooms tripled the next year after 1967. Prior to that he remembers his father telling him "I can't afford a house in Detroit that's why we have to live in St.Clair Shores". Today it's hard to believe a statement like that was ever said about this city.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 2925
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 67 riots were NOTHING compared to the crack lords who ruined the rest of detroit over the last 25 years.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2838
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 3:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Numbers 1, 5, 6, 7, and 8 are all pictures of the same area (notice the turquoise van). Although there is much damage to the area, the street appears to be Linwood Avenue instead of 12th Street because of the six lanes and the dividing white line in the middle. Twelfth street is viewed in shots 2 and 3 and appears to have only five lanes.
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Reddog289
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Username: Reddog289

Post Number: 713
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 3:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I grew up looking at my Dads riot scrapbook, But seeing the photos in color really brings out the damage. The sad thing is it reminds me of alot of the google earth photos i look at.
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 1946
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's always amazing, and depressing to see just how much was lost during the riots. What makes it worse is that many areas never even saw even a small rebound.
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Peachlaser
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Username: Peachlaser

Post Number: 258
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 12:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikeg,

I'm not a lawyer so take these comments in that light...

I agree with you about your cautions against misuse of copyright. There is also the issue of newsworthiness. I would say that these photographs, which represent the act that most likely caused the great calamity that has struck Detroit, are very newsworthy and that adds to their "fair use". They may not be newsworthy in any city on Earth, but they are especially important and newsworthy in Detroit, particularly to the people who have been affected the most by what happened in 1967 as shown in these photographs.

So being posted on this site created by Lowell which started as the Fabulous Ruins of Detroit is extremely relevant and newsworthy, in my personal opinion. I am positive that the people in this community will add a great deal of information, history and perspective (and value) to each photo.

I think an email by someone to Google or Time and explain where and how they are being used and ask for permission to post in this manner would be appropriate and legal. Most likely, they will grant permission and would probably be interested in the comments from the board. Then, add the comment that they are used with permission.

Now if someone takes these photos and makes Tee-shirts using them, then you are in a different game and that is clear copyright infringement.
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Bobl
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Username: Bobl

Post Number: 215
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What was accomplished by this insurrection?
Who benefited?
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Detroithabitater
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Username: Detroithabitater

Post Number: 187
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 2:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

5 & 6 I recall were at Pingree and Linwood where there is now a park. (Linwood running across the back of the shot). The street opposite of it and the bank on the corner seem to match street view.

I also recall hearing from someone that they took the concrete steps from these buildings and made them into park benches in that field.

I'll have to drive by and see if that checks out.

-dh
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Detroithabitater
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Username: Detroithabitater

Post Number: 188
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 2:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the area is now YATES PARK. 1,5,6,7,8 like royce said
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 5565
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"What was accomplished by this insurrection?
Who benefited?"

1. It made lots of people very afraid, it was a clear signal that long ignored problems had to be addressed.
2. George Wallace, Real Estate Brokers, Gun Dealers, Suburban Developers, to name a few...
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Bobl
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Username: Bobl

Post Number: 216
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 22, 2008 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

B: My exact feeling. Well put!

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