  Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 913 Registered: 07-2007 |
"Even if they reach a deal, though, conservative Republicans who want to force one or more of the Big Three into bankruptcy warned they might try to block the measure, virtually guaranteeing that it will need a 60-vote majority to pass and possibly delaying approval for days. "I think that not only myself, but several of us will be looking at possibly blocking this package," Sen. John Ensign, R-Nev., told CNBC." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 81210/ap_on_go_co/congress_aut os Nice move by these losers. They are intent on pushing the auto companies over the edge. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 2713 Registered: 09-2006 |
They are doing a good job of fulfilling the pledge they all took in 2000 to bring about ruin to America as we knew it. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 1481 Registered: 10-2003 |
Problems created by the Dems. Loan - Good Nationalist control of the industry - Dems...Bad idea Forced building of "Green cars" that don't have a compelling business case - Dems...Bad idea This little game that Prius driving Pelosi is forcing down the manufacturers throat may be the real death knell. Someone needs to spank that grandma | ||
Sparty06 Member Username: Sparty06 Post Number: 132 Registered: 03-2007 |
Of course, let's also remember that the Democrats imposed CAFE on the auto industry which is expected to generate 85 billion dollars in new regulatory costs on the companies by mandating a 40% increase in fuel efficiency by 2020. Let's also not forget CAFE's two fleet rule which was passed by Democrats for the sole purpose of protecting the UAW. The two fleet rule divides the automakers’ products into a domestic manufactured fleet and a foreign fleet. Each fleet must separately meet CAFÉ’s requirements. The UAW lobbied Congress to create this rule as a means to protect their membership. The two fleet rule effectively forces automakers to lose money producing small vehicles in high-cost UAW controlled facilities (to bring down their average fuel economy) in order to build larger cars and trucks that sell at higher prices and generate profit. This rule has nothing to do with ensuring cars get good mileage and everything to do with protecting the UAW. Also, let's remember that Democrats passed the Wagner Act in the '30s with the explicit purpose of creating a UAW labor monopoly in Detroit. Finally, let's not forget that Democrats including Obama himself OPPOSED the automakers reworking their contracts with the unions in 2007. In fact, last fall, Barack Obama stood with striking UAW workers in Kansas City to oppose a new labor agreement that industry executives said was necessary to survive. “I stand with the 73,000 United Automobile Workers who are striking General Motors,” Sen. Obama thundered. “The demands the union is fighting for — job security, the health benefits they were promised — are things that all workers should expect and that UAW members deserve.” Both political parties share blame in this crisis. | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 941 Registered: 05-2006 |
Yes- let's talk about CAFE- had it been passed 10 years ago, and FORCED the automakers to produce more fuel efficient vehicles, they would have sold a lot more cars, and not had their market share tank at a time when gas was $4.35 a gallon. One could argue, not passing cafe caused more jobs than not passing it. Dingell & Co fighting this tooth and nail, in the end turned out to be the downfall of the industry, pissed off the American consumers that in 2008 the Big 3 was still producing Hummers that get 9 mpg, and Dingell lost his committee. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 1080 Registered: 04-2006 |
CAFE is a dumb law. No argument from me on that. This thread, however, is about a group of senators who are actively trying to kill the Big Three, which is even dumber. Whatever CAFE's negative effects, it's been around for thirty years, and the auto industry is only now in immediate danger of disappearing. If you want to start a thread about CAFE and how dumb it is, go for it, but I don't understand why you're bringing it up here. | ||
Sparty06 Member Username: Sparty06 Post Number: 133 Registered: 03-2007 |
Bear, I agree that these GOP Senators should be called out but a lot of the cause of this current mess has been all these horrible regulations like CAFE. You can't create laws that drive the auto companies into a ditch and then claim it's their fault that they're in a ditch. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 1081 Registered: 04-2006 |
So start a thread on that. The auto industry's long-term structural problems and its current short-term crisis are, IMO, two separate issues. Related, but separate. We could repeal CAFE tomorrow and the Big Three would still go under. We need to take immediate action to keep the Big Three afloat for the next few months, and then start talking about how to make them viable in the long term. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 1483 Registered: 10-2003 |
Bear and Sparty, The opposition comes from both parties last I heard. It would seem to me that if they could get proper press on the study out of Ann Arbor regarding the true cost of bankruptcy to the govt (and taxpayers) which dwarfs the cost of the loans, this should be a no-brainer (unfortunately I think it will come with the regulatory ball and chain described above) | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 450 Registered: 12-2007 |
******************* Yes- let's talk about CAFE- had it been passed 10 years ago, and FORCED the automakers to produce more fuel efficient vehicles, they would have sold a lot more cars, and not had their market share tank at a time when gas was $4.35 a gallon. ******************* Cinder, You seem confused - CAFE was passed about 35 years ago. Maybe you mean an increase? I don't think CAFE is very good regulation, though I might be less opposed to it than I was when i wrote a research paper on it about 15 years ago. Gas taxes are much more effective. O. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3155 Registered: 11-2007 |
Send your feedback to Sen. Shelby at these sites - quote: http://www.freep.com/article/2 0081210/BUSINESS01/81210014/?i mw=Y http://shelby.senate.gov/publi c/ | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 5326 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yes, the current crisis is directly due to CAFE. If it weren't for CAFE, Americans would be lining up for miles to buy Ford Explorers and Jeep Grand Cherokees instead of Honda Civics and Toyota Camrys. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 1109 Registered: 04-2006 |
I agree with Otter, I think it might be better to impose high gas taxes, and use the money for (1) tax breaks to consumers who buy vehicles that get 40mpg (2) subsidy for the domestic automakers to research fuel efficiency. (3) construction costs of light rail transit in urban areas. (Message edited by andylinn on December 10, 2008) | ||
Kevgoblu Member Username: Kevgoblu Post Number: 185 Registered: 02-2007 |
But gas taxes require someone to draft legislation and attach their name to it. It would not be politically popular. Re-election and personal gain is much more important in the long run than shaping energy policy (or anything else in the country's best interest). Don't believe me? Ask Gov Blagojevich | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 2843 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: When will people realize this type of arrogance is not helping their stance but hurting it. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3156 Registered: 11-2007 |
_sj_ - quote: I watched the GOP Senators live on the noon news _sj_, and that was about as much arrogance as I've seen so far during this whole debacle. It looks like the North against the South again. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 9787 Registered: 10-2003 |
Send in the Iron Brigade again. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7595 Registered: 08-2004 |
Last night Chairman Christopher Dodd (with dimwit Shelby standing next to him)... pointed out the fact that the automakers troubles are not all of their own making... he pointed out that South Korea is allowed to import up to 1/2 million cars into the USA, but the American automakers are only allowed 5,000 to ship to South Korea! What dumbasses on both sides of the Senatorial aisle passed that quota? When it comes to foreign trade deals... members of both parties have been no friend of Detroit's automakers. And I love it how the Japanese have few restrictions on importing American cars... but they set up lots of roadblocks for setting up foreign auto dealerships. WAKE UP PEOPLE... it ain't just CAFE!! There's plenty of blame to go around... | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 451 Registered: 12-2007 |
To SJ's post, Things like the boycott-alabama-now site seem to show a lot of provincialness, pettiness, spitefulness and bitterness. What is this, the Republic of Michigan vs. the Republic of Alabama? | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 652 Registered: 03-2005 |
What is this, the Republic of Michigan vs. the Republic of Alabama? Yes, it is, thanks to Shelby. It's on. Yo, Shelby: Don't come crying to us Midwesterners for help next time a hurricane hits, jackass. Let your foreign automakers save you. Think that'll happen? | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 9793 Registered: 10-2003 |
From Wikipedia: quote: Hmmmmm? | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 2058 Registered: 04-2006 |
Should it not compare apples and apples? Alabama should be Compared to Michigan, not Detroit. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 917 Registered: 07-2007 |
Shelby and Co. announce plans to filibuster the auto legislation. Conservatives are falling over themselves with glee with the hope that the Big 3 will fall into bankruptcy, breaking the UAW and their retirees in the process. http://michellemalkin.com/2008 /12/10/high-noon-5-senate-repu blicans-announce-filibuster-su pport/ For anyone who wants to edit the Wiki article, the Alabama claim isn't backed by the facts. http://www1.eere.energy.gov/ve hiclesandfuels/facts/2008_fotw 539.html | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1915 Registered: 11-2003 |
Of course Shelby and Co will have the failure of the Big 3 and the loss of millions of jobs on their hands, further hurting the GOP's chances of regaining control in the next election. It is like they want to start a north/south war all over again. Shelby is such a hypocrite, since he claims to be a free market supporter, yet gave the foreign automakers in his state huge incentives to come here. (Message edited by bob on December 10, 2008) | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 5331 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: quote: I think the Wikipedia article was referring to waist size, not number of cars produced. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 2844 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Any one remember when I posted about this before in terms of Buying American and how it can turn into buy state and buy city. quote: Gotta love the people who like to compare a natural disaster to a poorly run industry. He is not the real jackass. Remember popular opinion of the auto bailout is not very favorable. Alabama is not the only area who believes you should sink in the mess you created. quote: Even though Detroit has enjoyed over 40 years of the chicken tax, billions in tax breaks, and barriers to competition over the years but still think they were shafted. | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 452 Registered: 12-2007 |
What is this, the Republic of Michigan vs. ••••••••••••••••••••••••••• Republic of Alabama? Yes, it is, thanks to Shelby. It's on. Yo, Shelby: Don't come crying to us Midwesterners for help next time a hurricane hits, jackass. Let your foreign automakers save you. Think that'll happen? ******************* Diehard, "Thanks to Shelby?" It takes two to have an adversarial relationship. It's thanks to attitudes like yours, too. Dreaming of future schaedenfreude, when you will be able to exact retribution, is childisha nd unproductive, not to mention utterly unrealistic. As if anyone thinks someone or another is really going to "come crying to (you)"? Good luck helping Michigan's image by making the argument that you shouldn't help other Americans with natural disasters. Last time I checked we're all in the United States of America, not the Petty Disaffected States of America. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1850 Registered: 12-2003 |
Look into Shelby's history and background, and look at who he's protecting -- Mercedes, Hyundai and Toyota. He is absolutely looking out for his constituents, and like his fellow Southern senators, they want to dismantle the UAW. | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 653 Registered: 03-2005 |
Gotta love the people who like to compare a natural disaster to a poorly run industry. That's for the jackasses out there who say "Detroit's dead and if you losers in Detroit don't like it, just move." Alabama knows it's in a hurricane zone, why don't they just move? It's a dumb argument either way. But for some reason we're supposed to help them in their times of need, while they'd prefer to smirk and throw us to the wolves. No, I wouldn't want to be petty and provincial, but that's the attitude the South seems to have toward us. It's a lot more complicated than "the mess you created" - the entire global economy contributed to this mess, not just the automakers. | ||
Detroit_expat Member Username: Detroit_expat Post Number: 1290 Registered: 10-2003 |
Alabama has plenty of money to lure the foreign auto makers to set up shop in their little corner of sweatshop Hell. Alabama is a total Federal Welfare Queen. From 1981 to 2005, Alabama received, on average, $1.40 for every $1.00 it paid in to the Federal Treasury. Michigan? Only $0.81 for every $1.00. http://www.taxfoundation.org/r esearch/show/22685.html Senator Shelby, we won't be taking any lectures regarding business or money matters from the likes or you, or any Alabamian. At least not until you start pulling your own weight. Senators Levin and Stabenow, you need to start bringing home the bacon from D.C., or we'll find Senators who will. (Message edited by Detroit Ex-Pat on December 10, 2008) |
