  Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 2781 Registered: 11-2007 |
What has become of our nation ? These are dark days again. Quoted in part: quote: What can we manufacture in case of a major war ? Possibly in a few weeks/months notice. Tanks, ships, aircraft, Humvees, munitions, rifles, artillery, bridges, uniforms, machinery, steel etc. I hope that Korea and Alabama are up to the task. The full speech here: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/ intrel/WorldWar2/arsenal.htm (Message edited by Bigb23 on December 12, 2008) | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4496 Registered: 02-2004 |
Once upon a time Detroit was an autobile capital of world. People from all over the world came to Detroit to work in the automobile factories. People were buying American cars from FORD, CHRYSLER, GM, AMC, RENUALT, CHEVROLET, STUDEBEBAKER, PACKARD, FISHER, CADILLAC ECT... Now those days are gone. Gobbled up by Japanese and the Europeans. They were deperate for cash and didn't get it. Now what's left of the car companies in Detroit will be gone. Will the last person in Detroit please turn off the lights. | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2008 |
When I wrote each Senator, I used the "Arsenal of Democracy" example. I continued with Lee Iacocca's assessment of America turning into a colony due to our vanishing manufacturing & industrial base. I wrapped it up by asking "How American or Patriotic is it in allowing our country to become a doormat to the rest of the world?" No responses on the second round of emails I sent out. Wow, what a surprise. They love to preach about loving America & selling us the Patriotism line but can't handle being called on it themselves. I believe this is far from over. Listening to Sytx's "Blue Collar Man". | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 2890 Registered: 10-2003 |
People forget that with losses of these plants come the losses of the engineers. So who builds what and where does the education go? In the true sense of the word we are fucked. | ||
J_to_the_jeremy Member Username: J_to_the_jeremy Post Number: 146 Registered: 03-2007 |
Once upon a time, we were also dominated by the Iron Stove industry. The only reason Detroit didn't collapse when that did was because cars came along. That industry just lasted for longer. While we will now be left with a huge, empty infrastructure and workers, we can't afford to have an economy that isn't diversified AGAIN. We're finally going to pay for decades of shortsighted, ignorant business decisions, and it's not fair, because the people suffering the most are the workers who really had no say in the matter the whole time. | ||
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field Post Number: 1372 Registered: 01-2008 |
The only "American" product that really has ever made inroads in Japan is our entertainment, esp. music. The Japanese protect their industry. Conservatives tout their free market principles, which fail utterly in the face of doing business with trade protective and communist nations. They have switched from warning us about the "Red Menace" during the latter half of the 20th century to Islamic terrorism in the 21st. Defeating the US economically has turned out to be very profitable, as opposed to defeating us militarily, which would be very expensive. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 2892 Registered: 10-2003 |
I about to thump my chest here...I had stated a long time ago (o.k. about 10 years ago) that the next big war won't be conventional or nuclear but economic. The traitors (Bush, Clinton, greedy CEO's and the dumb people who bought their lies) are to blame but they will walk away with all of the cash in hand and the peons (us) will be lefting holding the empty bag. Just wait until the next war comes around. Without manufacturing plants to defend ourselves and the knowledge to keep us safe we could be walked over. Now where are the hippies that are so against nukes? These weapons are the only things saving our butts now. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9002 Registered: 10-2003 |
I thought Pittsburgh was the Arsenal of Democracy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S teel_Valley_(Pittsburgh) | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 573 Registered: 04-2008 |
Now, we are considered the Arse of Democracy, and we're gettin' a whippin'! | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1607 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Do you really think the next war will require a large military buildup of inferior equipment on a mass-scale? And before we go down this road can we please stop trying to tell people Detroit won the war and that only Detroit did things for the War Effort. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1719 Registered: 11-2003 |
How is American equipment inferior? Ford vehicles have quality and safety second to none. (versus the data Tokyo Rose made up previously) | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1610 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: Only in fairy tales was American equipment superior. | ||
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field Post Number: 1379 Registered: 01-2008 |
quote: I guess that we would have to start saying those things first before we stopped. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1616 Registered: 12-2003 |
quote: I guess you missed "Before we go down this road". These statements have been making the rounds on TV, newspaper articles, op-ed pieces. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 2907 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sj, Detroit was a major player and came out with some innovative vehicles for the war effort. That is a fact. And could there be a war when commodities become scarce? Why wouldn't there be? Ithas happened throughout history (killing another group for their food or terrirory to WWII and lebensraum). If you read my post the only thing that may stop it (even conventional nukes could be used) would be atomic weapons. | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 1876 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm with sj - I don't get where this idea is coming from that in the next war we the production facilities of a scale similar to WWII. And where does this idea come from that Detroit or the auto industry was the arsenal of democracy, as if no one else in the country did anything for the war effort? http://www.heritageresearch.co m/ourlibrary/databases/wwii/au thorized/alabama.htm | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 2910 Registered: 10-2003 |
No one is saying that Mikem, just like no one is saying Detroit was the be all and end all of the "arsenal of democracy" (go along the east coast and you can see who built the entire navy). What I am saying is that Detroit was a very big part of it. As for engineering if there isn't much left in engineering it is pretty hard to make vehicles or any of the automation to make wepaons isn't it? It doesn't have to be on the scale of WWII. | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 1880 Registered: 10-2003 |
But a lot of people are saying it or implying it - here, in the media, in congress, on the streets. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 2912 Registered: 10-2003 |
^^That is very true^^ but let's be honest, the dumbing down of N. American society is at an all time high so it is to be expected. Not to mention most people now have the attention span of a gnat. | ||
Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy Post Number: 246 Registered: 01-2008 |
...Right Goat, we were blinded by propaganda of the side that really won WW II. Detroit looks the way it does today because Wehner Von Braun developed the A-4 Amerika Multi-stage rocket and along with devestating explosives a new type of mind clouding gas was developed by German chemical works. When the next war comes about and Washington D.C. is occupied, I'm sure those Southern Senators which downplay our industry will save the day by importing elephants from India and pulling a "Hannibal over the Appalachians". | ||
Thames Member Username: Thames Post Number: 333 Registered: 02-2007 |
As individuals, most of us are always striving to make sure we are self sufficient; that we can take care of ourselves, so that we don't have to rely on others. As a country, we should be the same way. It doesn't surprise me that people within the gov't want to destroy this country's manufacturing capability because this gov't also wanted to outsource our port security to a middle eastern company. Outsourcing our port security to a foreign country is crazy enough, let alone a middle eastern country. I lost track of that story, did that ever happen? Whenever I read and see the things this gov't does, I'm always in a state of, WTF? | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 602 Registered: 04-2008 |
Thames, that port deal to the UAE was blocked by Congress. They are run by AIG now. | ||
Bobl Member Username: Bobl Post Number: 281 Registered: 07-2008 |
Urgent Communication: U.S Department of Defense to People's Republic of China... Recent aggressive operations from the People's Republic of China, resulting in the destruction of U.S. communications satellites and power grids, followed by the hostage taking at our embassy in Beijing leaves the U.S. with no choice but to order military weapons, delivery systems, armored vehicles, and weapons from China, for timely delivery, so that we can respond forcefully. Terms: Cash payment within 90 days after customary currency manipulation by the People's Republic of China. (Message edited by Bobl on December 17, 2008) | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3742 Registered: 09-2007 |
FDR appointed Detroit as (and I quote) "the greatest arsenal of democracy", not the only absolute arsenal of democracy. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 933 Registered: 07-2006 |
Bobl: just a clarification, the Republic of China is more commonly known as Taiwan (who i doubt would be capable of undertaking any aggressive operations on the scale you speak of), while the Chinese mainland is the People's Republic of China. | ||
Bobl Member Username: Bobl Post Number: 282 Registered: 07-2008 |
S: Thanks. Must have been that fifth bottle of Schlitz!! | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 267 Registered: 08-2006 |
I'll repost a thought I posted on another thread. Detroit can be an arsenal of democracy again and do so in another way. Rather than focusing on building war machines, Detroit can build advanced and efficient vehicles that reduce our dependence upon people who are not concerned about our best interests. It can be argued that our focus on building large and inefficient vehicles has made us less secure and more vulnerable to these forces. So, designing and producing advanced efficient vehicles is a National Security issue. | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 268 Registered: 08-2006 |
I also meant to add...don't be lulled into complacency by the current temporary low gas prices. These prices are the standard Saudi gift to the president so that gas prices did not become a huge election issue. I think they are being extended as a gift to Bush. It would bad in the history books if Bush, a fellow oilman, had $2 a gallon gas when he came into office but $5 a gallon when he left. Watch the prices begin to climb again once Bush is out of office as the Middle Eastern producers stick it to us again. So, if Detroit wants to be the arsenal of democracy again, give us efficient vehicles so that we can tell these folks to take a hike and remove their hands from around our necks and other painful grips that have on us. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1727 Registered: 11-2003 |
Detroit has efficient vehicles. Guess what people are buying though since the price of gas went down? Trucks. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5047 Registered: 06-2004 |
Not only does Detroit have efficient vehicles but 11 years ago Detroit offered an alternative that would reduce oil use for personal transportation to a quarter (or less) of what it was. It was thrown back in our faces. Thanks, American hypocrites. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 605 Registered: 04-2008 |
Urgent Communication: U.S Department of Defense to People's Republic of China... Due to the recent financial crisis facing our nation, we are unable to pay for our military order until you purchase Treasury Securities equal to the value of said order. Please comply. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 606 Registered: 04-2008 |
Peachlaser, the only way your plan will be successful is if gas prices are artificially raised by taxes. The revenue generated would go to fund all military operations in the Middle East. | ||
Glowblue Member Username: Glowblue Post Number: 71 Registered: 09-2008 |
quote: In what areas was American equipment inferior to Axis equipment? Germany had better tanks, but that's the only area where they had a decided advantage (even there, we were able to overwhelm the with sheer numbers). American armaments were superior to Japanese armaments in every major area. | ||
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah Post Number: 137 Registered: 03-2008 |
Well, with Russia again visiting Cuba and buddying up to Chavez in Venezuela, I'm sure that their partner China will make sure to supply us with armaments and technology should war break out with us against them or Russia. Either that or we could take 10 years to immediately fire up the factories and their off shoots in the defense sector. Sheesh, how short-sightedly blind are we? | ||
Chow Member Username: Chow Post Number: 278 Registered: 10-2003 |
The whole arsenal of democracy point is fairly moot today. Detroit WAS the arsenal of democracy during WWII, a time before there was a military industrial complex. Since a whole industry has spawned to fuel our war machine. Now whether or not it could adapt to large scale production in response to another world war is questionable. But the auto industry would play a signifigantly lesser role, if at all. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 609 Registered: 04-2008 |
It isn't a military war that I worry about, but an economic war. We continue to lose industries to other countries. We have become more and more dependent on them to support us financially via Treasury securities, which they currently purchase half of. And our Arse of Democracy (cheek 1: Congress, cheek 2: Presidency) has spread our country wide open for them in order to ensure high-paying foreign lobbyist jobs for themselves once they leave office. | ||
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84 Post Number: 453 Registered: 01-2007 |
Glowblue, German weaponry of WWII were of a higher quality but that was their downfall. The U.S. Defense department drew up a plan to beat Gremany and Japan by building in volume over quality. Since machinery before WWII was overbuilt, they loosened tolerances and quality specifications on war materiel so more lesser quality parts could be used, instead of being scrapped. Three lesser quality American tanks could be more effective than one High quality German tank.(Back when the Government and Manufacturing were partners, not adversaries). | ||
Luckycar Member Username: Luckycar Post Number: 132 Registered: 02-2007 |
Two thoughts on the A of D.Number one,the reason the German tanks were beaten in France and somewhat in Russia was Allied contol of the air.Cutting off of the fuel,ammo and spare parts for the tanks doomed them to be snipers,big gunned snipers,but they would be destroyed if they tried to fight in the open.Google Battle of the Bulge. Number two is the myth of the US starting to build its weapons on Dec. 8th,1941.A complex shipbuilding plan was already up and running by 1940.Same with aircraft.Our Allies were already ordering alot of war goods by 1940.This ended the depression once and for all.Everything was ramped up after Dec.7th.The auto plants were quickly changed over,and the rest is history. |
