  Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 367 Registered: 05-2006 |
With all the uncertainty of the future going around here, maybe we need to start utilizing one of the original sources for survival; agriculture. Let's stop lamenting now! http://www.freep.com/article/2 0081215/NEWS01/812150342 (Message edited by hans57 on December 15, 2008) | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 5088 Registered: 04-2005 |
I don't know how many people want to eat food grown on land that has been car factories, steel mills, toxic dumps, etc. Also, if you're talking mass production, the government would get involved and there would be years of clean up involved | ||
Izzyindetroit Member Username: Izzyindetroit Post Number: 161 Registered: 07-2008 |
A lot of crops can be used for more than just human consumption. Many crops can be used as energy, building materials, and daily products such as cups, napkins, etc. The plants will also speed up the mitigation process of the polluted land. | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 368 Registered: 05-2006 |
The property parcels that had homes on them would not be considered a brownfield site or toxic. Besides, one of the most cost effective ways to clean a site is to cultivate it. After a certain number of seasons the plot would become suitable for edible crops. Why would the Government need to be involved? This is neighborhoods banding together to farm a few acres. It could suppliment their income or they could eat the crops themselves. I'm talking about survival for the people that cannot afford to move themselves from the city. The original basis for an economy. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 1007 Registered: 02-2007 |
Here we go again. Contaminated land can still be used to grow food. Raised beds have been used to combat this problem. There is also scientific evidence that vegetables don't absorb enough pollutants to be detected in tests. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8809 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jcole, THEN they can starve, if they only want to live from their fears and not choose to learn a bit! There are numerous other ways for remediation, and MOST plants don't need it for what we've got in abundance in our soil anyways. Capillary action 'distills' the water as it goes up a plant's internal structure...making large molecules unable to get TO the fruit or veggies...almost like it was DESIGNED to be that way (heh). The stuff that has to be grown under soil are the things we need to be concerned with...and there are ways to make THAT happen with new soil and raised beds and hoop houses. SO...get with the program, learn a bit, and come join us as we till until tomorrow...it is going to be a great winter prepping our spring planting and means to stretch production beyond one or two seasons. Big fun, we need the help. Follow anything Cub has to say on the matter... | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8812 Registered: 12-2003 |
LOL, I just noticed he already posted...I flew into my reply so quickly, and dammit if Cub didn't beat me to it before I could edit myself! | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 1008 Registered: 02-2007 |
lol sorry G. | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 433 Registered: 01-2008 |
I had some concerns about contamination. The soil can be tested, like it was at Georgia Street. Cub, doesn't know it yet, but I' m putting in a large garden on Field St. this year that I hope can be distributed thru the Georgia Street Community Center along with the produce raised at the community gardens. I also hope to plant a "cash crop" of flowers that can be retailed inexpensively,at local markets. I like the idea of practical and beautiful. The balance is also there in volunteerism and entreprenurialism. In food there is communion and our beautiful nature also feeds the soul. | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 434 Registered: 01-2008 |
Just to mix things up a bit, I also plan to grow some pot. Our friend who owns this land has a legal perscription for weed. Don't like the stuff myself, but it does abate the symptoms of some health problems. | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 369 Registered: 05-2006 |
The question is, how can we get the rest of the metro area on board with this? We could be pioneering the "green" city movement. We shouldn't see the turmoil with the auto companies as an end, we need to see it as the beginning of a new, cleaner era. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3608 Registered: 04-2006 |
What about rats and other rodents? | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 1009 Registered: 02-2007 |
The focus should be getting the city on board. Technically community gardens are illegal. There are no ordinances on the books for it so it should be considered illegal. Crazy, isn't? But true. If we can get more people on board with this it can move a lil faster. There are a lot of community gardens in the city and it keeps growing every year. We have plans to do two more lots this spring and that is not including the gardens being started by others in the neighborhood. | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 5090 Registered: 04-2005 |
"We could be pioneering the "green" city movement." I thought Urbanfarming.org and The Greening of Detroit were already involved in helping people set up gardens in the city Here's a link to gardens that Urbanfarming.org is involved with. (Message edited by jcole on December 15, 2008) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 8816 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hans, It is happening...the green city movement has alrady been pioneered by the likes of the Greening of Detroit and the Capuchin monks! We're just riding THEIR efforts towards a better tomorrow. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 1010 Registered: 02-2007 |
Ihearted, what about them? | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 694 Registered: 06-2005 |
quote:It's happening more than you might think. There's a related announcement expected this week. | ||
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field Post Number: 1396 Registered: 01-2008 |
Doesn't the government pay farmers for NOT growing certain crops? Let's find out what they are and threaten to grow them here, thereby getting paid for not growing them. After all many in the US think that we in SE Michigan are a bunch of lazy socialist government spongers, might as well take advantage of our reputation. | ||
Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy Post Number: 251 Registered: 01-2008 |
...keep planting trees, trees and more trees in an act of defiant grass roots action. Sort of like Johhnny Appleseed comes to Chene Street. Detroit's City Government will be still sitting on their dead pompous asses twenty years hence. In the meantime, the trees will have twenty years of accumulated growth behind them. | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 370 Registered: 05-2006 |
I guess I'm not sure where we stand among other American cities on this subject... but when I say pioneer the "green" city movement, I mean to be head and shoulders above the rest of the country. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 1015 Registered: 02-2007 |
There are a number of cities that come to Detroit to mimic what The Greening of Detroit is doing. Head and shoulders might be Milwaukee as they have a city government who wants to be a green city, but they envy us for the land space. We on the other hand, envy them cause they have the ordinances. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1010 Registered: 12-2004 |
I resent the insinuation in this article that planting things is related to "shrinking" the city. We plant to develop the capacity of the land. Hopefully, people will find the city more habitable, as this occurs, and they will invest in the community. Thats a growth strategy to me. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 2617 Registered: 09-2006 |
I'd sure as hell move if my city's claim to fame outside of crime, corruption, unemployment, and what used to be the Big 3 was city grown agriculture. I mean if I wanted to live in an area where Ma and Pa farms dominate the economy and the landscape I'd move to the country. I want to live in a city that hasn't given up on the idea of being a city and if Detroit cant be that because in part of ideas like this well Adios Motown. I'm sure you'll miss me more than I will miss you. (Message edited by Mayor_sekou on December 15, 2008) | ||
Sparty06 Member Username: Sparty06 Post Number: 163 Registered: 03-2007 |
It's not as simple as that Mayor, as that article shows you could fit Manhattan, Boston and San Fran inside of the city limits of Detroit with room to spare. Not every last area in Detroit has to be super urban. Obviously, areas like downtown should focus on urban development but there are huge swaths of the city that are emptying out fast and we need a real and practical plan for how to deal with that. I think urban farming is one idea that should be explored for many of these areas (think of the East Jefferson and the blocks upon blocks that might only contain a dozen of homes). Unfortunately, it seems like the people here in the forum are more creative in their thinking about Detroit than those on the city council or in the mayor's office. They seem stuck in the old ways without any real vision for a new Detroit. (Message edited by sparty06 on December 15, 2008) | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 371 Registered: 05-2006 |
We have a city where the obesity and diabetes problem is terrible and skyrocketing. The major contributors to this problem; no access to fresh produce and a lack of education on a proper diet. If we can quell this problem while possibly putting some money into these peoples pockets, I'd say we'd be criminals to not do it. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 2618 Registered: 09-2006 |
I see this article and I get excited not by the fact that we can explore the idea of becoming an urban farming "paradise". I get excited by the idea that we have enough space available in this city that if we all do our part as Detroiters and work hard, smart, and long enough we can fit San Francisco, Boston, and that place I want to live very badly all literally within the city. What would you rather work towards living in a vibrant city that can fit, according to that map, another 3 million people within its boundaries or some gimmicky urban farm land that has never really been attempted on any real large scale for good reason? To succeed we need to stop believing that the wheel needs to be reinvented. There are thousands of successful cities throughout the world in which we can use as a model to start getting our collective shit together. We can use all of our creative resources to find a way to combat the crime, terrible school system, unemployment, or in other words the real reasons people don’t want to live here instead of dedicating all of that energy to ultimately something that’s a nice pet project but not a way to reinvigorate a dead city. | ||
Sparty06 Member Username: Sparty06 Post Number: 164 Registered: 03-2007 |
Mayor, The reality is that a lot of the vacant neighborhoods were never truly "urban" neighborhoods as you imagine... they were probably closer to suburb style living in that they didn't have downtowns to speak of and were just rows and rows of homes with backyards. Yes, we should work to increase Detroit's population and part of doing that is figuring out what to do with all the vacant land in the city. As the article stated, if there is ever another better redevelopment opportunity we could re-zone those areas to move from urban farming to other development opportunities. But first, we have to figure out how to get some sort of economic development happening. (Message edited by sparty06 on December 15, 2008) | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 1016 Registered: 02-2007 |
Who is saying turn the whole city into an urban farming paradise? There are parts of the city that could be turned into flower and vegetable gardens. If I wanted to live in farm country I would be there too. There are parts of the city that you probably wouldn't step foot in, so why not have a few money making gardens? Homes wont be built anytime soon. Stay downtown or move to Manhattan. Doesn't sound like you want to be here anyway. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3909 Registered: 10-2003 |
It all sounds good, but community gardens will only take out so much land from the system. And, if we're talking large-scale farming as was also advocated in the article, people need to remember that agriculture uses (and wastes) more water than any other human acitivity on the land (including urbanization). If large-scale farming is to come to parts of the city, these better be experimental farms to find out how to use the land more efficiently. Much of the world has stopped trying to move forward with efficiency in farming. It'd be great if the city could team up with MSU going and make Detroit the center for agricultural expirements. I'm more open to the idea of returning much of the land (those tracts that form the largest contiguous spaces) back to nature through massive native tree and grass plantings, but even that has its problems. The first thing that comes to mind is that if the criminal element in the region already uses the empty (though, open) lots for criminal activity (i.e. dumping bodies, dumping toxic and not-so-toxic waste...), just think of the base they'd have from a nature preserve without a much stronger police force. I'm not arguing against any of this, but I'm not sure like everyone that these are "no duh" ideas. They need to be carefully weighed and considered. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 1019 Registered: 02-2007 |
There are water conservation lessons and efforts going on in community and small family gardens in The Greening of Detroit's Garden Resource Program. They help us make rain barrels and teach us how to use the. They teach us to ammend the soil so it retains enough moisture so that watering is not needed on a daily basis. Cisterns(sp) are even being used in Milwaukee where they use a see-saw that pumps water up into a small tower so that gravity can be used to water a huge community garden at a school playground. So there are methods already in place to conserve water. |
