Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 132 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 7:41 am: | |
After years of tow-the-line-lib editorials against "Big Corporations", greedy CEO's, and similar pap the Freep now follows the blueprint it has complained about. The Freep will cut the little guys and keep the upper guys. Will the Freep management take a huge paycut as an example? Will whiney lib columnists like millionaire Mitch Albom take a paycut or work for nothing to help out and lead by example? No the Freep has just proved that the things they make money complaining about are merely smart business decisions. |
Marshall Member Username: Marshall
Post Number: 17 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 7:51 am: | |
Detroit will probably the only large city in America without a daily newspaper (delivery). Makes me seriously consider the Oakland Press, except my wife likes to get the ad's on Saturday and I need my weekly dose of Dilbert. |
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336
Post Number: 8183 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 8:15 am: | |
guys, it is the wave of the future. print newspapers will more than likely be a thing of the past in a few short years. very few print editions are making money |
Daddeeo Member Username: Daddeeo
Post Number: 348 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 8:23 am: | |
I never liked getting my paper from out in the street anyways. |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 133 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 8:25 am: | |
That's not the point of my post though, it's the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do attitude of the Freep. Where's the caring and fairness they so often cry out for from everyone else? What will whiney little Mitch do? He'll take his salary and then call out some other highly paid people from other areas to take cuts. Do as I say, not as I do... |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 5148 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 8:41 am: | |
You can't write a paper without columnists. They can't fire them and keep the delivery people. Unless, of course, they are extremely gifted writers, too. |
Mcp001 Member Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 1595 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 8:47 am: | |
You might be surprised, Jcole. You just might be surprised... |
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 5798 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 8:56 am: | |
Just like the mid 90's. The company will do what the company will do. Mitch will be obedient, as he always is. |
Rooms222 Member Username: Rooms222
Post Number: 152 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 9:22 am: | |
The ads won't be on Saturday anymore, according to the FAQs on the freep transition site...They will now be on Sunday like the rest of America....... |
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 1276 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 9:23 am: | |
Can't keep jobs that don't make a company money, plain and simple. Print is dying across the country. PCMag stopped printing a hard copy. Other magazines are soon to follow, and although people unfortunately lost their jobs, you can't invest or keep invest in markets that are quickly going away. Stats show that most people under 35 or 40 don't read the print paper. Of my friends in that age group, nobody reads the print paper except for Sunday. I know five who read it on their Kindle and get it automatically delivered that way. If there is no or less demand for what you produce, you can't expect to have things stay the same. I, from a business perspective, applaud the Freep and News for their attempt at innovation and seeing the writing on the wall (or the screen). There's simply less need for delivery people or printing paper when the newspaper doesn't make money doing it, the audience is shrinking, and the advertisers do not want to be there. There's going to be more jobs that shrink or change, too. Trade shows and accounting are two fields I wouldn't be in as they are next in the upcoming 10 years as sponsors have realized they can take that money online with outreach people and get much, much better return and accounting is going to be the next large field to move to India after IT and the beginning of Medical. Sucks, I don't politically agree with all of it, but it's reality. |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 134 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 9:32 am: | |
It's interesting reading how peoples perceptions change regarding "Big" anything. No one is saying get rid of ALL columnists or excutives. Where is the typical liberal mantra for fairness, share the pain, cut salaries, no takers at the lib Freep to practice what they preach?? |
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 1084 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 9:40 am: | |
I think, Ongowwah, that when you attempt to view every person, institution, and event that crosses your path through the lens of one of two rigidly-defined and mutually exclusive political philosophies, you will find yourself frequently confused. |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 135 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 10:03 am: | |
i think you're off base. I also see no one refuting the obvious double standard where the Free Press' policy is concerned. They talk a good game but when it comes time to back up their previous stances...sorry. |
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 6500 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 10:53 am: | |
I find it sad to see the state of affairs with the papers as well, but the one thing that I find odd is the staunch belief that we need two distinct newspapers. How many other major cities have this? Is it an editorial content decision? Don't get me wrong thinking that this is a great solution either (ideally no one would be losing their jobs and the papers would still be prosperous), but can anyone explain to me why they held onto the notion that we have to have two papers? Or is that just a facade? |
Detx Member Username: Detx
Post Number: 215 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 11:26 am: | |
If the papers failing is determined by retaining managment and writers or firing/laying off delivery people, then I hope the papers do the right thing and say goodbye to the delivery people. Part of the reason why the auto industry is in the position it is in now is because they couldn't let go of under performers when it needed to. Managment and writers have talent. Delievery people, and others in similar positions, don't. I used to deliever the News when I was little... |
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm
Post Number: 1576 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 11:30 am: | |
Marshall, all the comics are here: http://news.yahoo.com/comics |
Retroit Member Username: Retroit
Post Number: 607 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 11:37 am: | |
Would anything prevent someone from starting their own private delivery service on days when the newspapers don't provide delivery? (Just an idea for someone who needs some money.) |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1709 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 11:57 am: | |
Home delivery of just about anything anywhere is a money losing business, which is why almost nobody does it anymore. (See "webvan", just for instance.) Energy and insurance costs wipe out any possible profit. Newspapers could make money subsidizing home delivery in the past because the ad revenue (based on the increase in readers when you offer home delivery) could way more than make up the cost. But that appears to be not the case now, or at least it is less and less the case. |
Bob Member Username: Bob
Post Number: 1223 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 12:16 pm: | |
I get the Freep and the Macomb Daily and the Daily pretty much always has the exact same ads in it as the Freep. |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 136 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 12:17 pm: | |
Would anything prevent private delivery services....uhhhh U-N-I-O-N maybe. |
Retroit Member Username: Retroit
Post Number: 608 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 12:25 pm: | |
Delivery people are unionized? Didn't know that! |
Pffft Member Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1177 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 12:58 pm: | |
Nothing prevents entrepreneurs from starting delivery services. Ignore the union-bashing. |
Detx Member Username: Detx
Post Number: 219 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 1:06 pm: | |
"Nothing prevents entrepreneurs from starting delivery services. Ignore the union-bashing." I'm sure the Newspaper Delievery Union (bunch of old guys on bicycles?) would try to prevent a private entrepreneuer from starting a delievery service. Thanks again unions! |
Pffft Member Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1178 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 1:10 pm: | |
Dude, guess again. In fact odds are some of the News/Freep delivery people are the ones who will strike out on their own and do it. |
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal
Post Number: 115 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 1:24 pm: | |
Speaking of unions, the Free Press (and the News) showed their true colors years ago by their actions during the newspaper strike/lockout. So I take their editorial stances, and particularly those of a scab like Albom, with a big grain of salt. But the above posters are right, the newspaper business is undergoing a very profound change at the moment, one which will almost certainly end with no actual paper editions for any of them within the next few years. When the giant of the American newspaper business, the New York Times, has lost buckets of money over several years, and all big city dailies have become unprofitable, it would seem that it's definitely time for them to look at a new business model. This is not really a matter of "liberal" or "conservative" values, and I'm not sure why anyone would look at it that way. It's simply a business trying to survive when the demand for their primary product is dying. |
Detx Member Username: Detx
Post Number: 220 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 1:30 pm: | |
Doubtful. Union members aren't the types to strike (no pun intended) it out on their own. They simply do what they're told. Or don't. And if a private entrepreneur tries to get that News/Freep delievery contract, the union, whatever is left of it, will be tossing monkey wrenches left and right. |
Mkhopper Member Username: Mkhopper
Post Number: 17 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 1:46 pm: | |
Why do I foresee many empty paper boxes in the morning? It won't take long for someone to come up with the idea of spending a few bucks to clean out every box in a small area and providing an unofficial, below-the-union-radar delivery service to the neighbors on the block. For a minimal fee of course. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 5981 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 2:06 pm: | |
Mkhopper, I was thinking exactly the same thing... When you put your coins into the box and open it... you're on the honor system for only taking one paper. The News/Freep are going to have to have some new box technology in order to prevent exactly what you describe... |
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 3713 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 2:31 pm: | |
Where's Jjaba, old time Detroit Times Carrier? You ready to start a new enterprise with me? |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5049 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 2:32 pm: | |
^happens now on big news days when some local stores sell out early - if they know they can sell 'em... |
Det313grrl Member Username: Det313grrl
Post Number: 245 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 2:33 pm: | |
They'll probably get rid of those boxes. I haven't bought a copy of the News/Freep since 1995. (Message edited by det313grrl on December 17, 2008) |
Macknwarren Member Username: Macknwarren
Post Number: 90 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 2:42 pm: | |
Ongowwah: I hate what the Free Press is doing. I love to read a paper with my breakfast. But look at the industry: The Chicago Tribune/L.A. Times filed for bankruptcy in the past 10 days. Some papers are laying off 30 percent of their newsroom staffs. I give the Free Press credit for at least trying something new. No layoffs in the newsroom and going digital in a huge way...Maybe it will work, though I'm not holding my breath. |
Retroit Member Username: Retroit
Post Number: 610 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 3:22 pm: | |
I bet all the Town Criers were pissed off when the newspapers took their jobs away. As for myself, I'm going to hold off on the whole internet news thing. I'll wait till they invent a computer chip that can be implanted in my brain with a news feed directly to my cerebral cortex. |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 139 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 8:23 am: | |
Macknwarren: Ongowwah I hate what the Free Press is doing. I love to read a paper with my breakfast. But look at the industry: The Chicago Tribune/L.A. Times filed for bankruptcy in the past 10 days. Some papers are laying off 30 percent of their newsroom staffs. I give the Free Press credit for at least trying something new. No layoffs in the newsroom and going digital in a huge way...Maybe it will work, though I'm not holding my breath. Ongowwah: Again, the point of my post is missed. It's that the Free Press is hypocritical in letting the "little guys" go and keeping the honcho's which is in direct contrast with their past editorial stances regarding other corporations making cuts. It's liberal do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do speak coming from the big lib newspaper. Which is my only point. |
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth
Post Number: 491 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 8:37 am: | |
They may be a "liberal" newspaper, Ongowwah, but the last time I looked that the owners weren't a bunch of "liberals". The posture of the Free Press is purely as a counterpoint to the Detroit News being an alleged "conservative" slanted newspaper. Editorial staff usually don't call the shots when hiring or firing, last time I looked.
quote: It's liberal do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do speak coming from the big lib newspaper. Well, obviously you're a fan of the News. Go figure. If you don't like the Freep, don't read it. |
Pffft Member Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1180 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 8:45 am: | |
I don't think he likes any newspapers, from the sound of it. Go figure. |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 140 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 9:51 am: | |
No "maybe" about it, they are a liberal newspaper and they are being hypocritical. Therefore by being such they just shot down their previous editorials by virtue of their words and actions. They have admitted that the actions they previously called for do not work in the real world. |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 4508 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:02 am: | |
The FREEP is cutting little boys out of the newspaper delivery business, rediculous! This is now the internet changes everything we see and hear information. |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 5152 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:15 am: | |
Danny, most of the "delivery boys", at least where I live, are grown men and women in cars, and delivering the newspaper is how they make their living, not pocket change for baseball cards. They also deliver the Flint Journal, Port Huron Times-Herald and Macomb Daily. I spoke to one the other day who indicated that the cutting back of daily delivery would cost him a couple of hundred dollars per week, so he will charge his delivery customers an extra dollar to make up for it. (Message edited by jcole on December 18, 2008) |
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 2956 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 1:27 pm: | |
The Freep that stole Christmas. |
Macknwarren Member Username: Macknwarren
Post Number: 91 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 2:55 pm: | |
Ongowwah: The Detroit News has long preached the joys of the free market. Are they hypocritical for advocating the auto-industry bailout from Washington? Of course they are. Can you name one media institution that never, ever veers off its editorial stance? |