Jams Member Username: Jams
Post Number: 7297 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 11:00 pm: | |
Merry Christmas!
quote:Widespread jobs losses were reported in every major sector in Michigan last month, increasing the state's unemployment rate three-tenths of a percentage point to 9.6 percent, according to the Michigan Department of Labor & Economic Growth, DLEG. "Michigan's labor market has rapidly deteriorated in the last several months due to the fallout of the ongoing national recession," said Rick Waclawek, director of DLEG's Bureau of Labor Market Information and Strategic Initiatives, in a statement released this afternoon. "Almost all industry sectors have been impacted as state payroll jobs have declined by nearly 60,000 in just the last two months." http://detroitnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20081217/B IZ/812170454 Happy New Year! Predictions are for double digit unemployment in the next report. Of course, these are "official" numbers which don't include those that fell off or were never on the rolls. |
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 1086 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 11:01 pm: | |
Jesus. |
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 865 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 11:08 pm: | |
and we were at 16.9% in 1982. |
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 3921 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 11:14 pm: | |
I've been dreading when it hits 10%, and it will. It's a psychological stabbing, but that doesn't make it any less painful. It's going to have to hit double digits simply because so many people will be temporarily laid off over the end of this month and all of January. And, after that, I bet you many suppliers will have gone out of business. We know were in for trouble, whether we get the loans or not, but the fact is that this will be the direct result of stalling. Everyone see that the construction of the Volt assembly plant (and I guess this will include the engine plant, too) is being put on hold because of the crisis? In some good news, Gerber is adding 200 new jobs at its southwest Michigan headquarters, which will be huge for a town as small as Fremont. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4387 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 12:04 am: | |
The Volt plant is on hold because first they need to determine if the company will exist. |
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 3927 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 12:06 am: | |
Well, yeah, that's a given. I was using it as an example of the beginning consequences of the congressional stall. |
Rid0617 Member Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 361 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 12:38 am: | |
South Carolina is in the top 5 with 8.5%. We're slowly getting to you. Some counties here are at 10% already. It's going to stink all over before this is done. |
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo
Post Number: 128 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 1:12 am: | |
Well that's nearly 2% higher than France's unemployment rate of 7.7%. And they had a 35-hour workweek until recently. I might even say I am... 'blown away'... |
Glowblue Member Username: Glowblue
Post Number: 72 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 1:49 am: | |
quote:and we were at 16.9% in 1982. Why was our unemployment so high back then? I know that was during a bad recession, but even then that is very high. |
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 1407 Registered: 01-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 2:11 am: | |
quote:South Carolina is in the top 5 with 8.5%. We're slowly getting to you. Some counties here are at 10% already. It's going to stink all over before this is done "The Governor of SC, Mark Sanford is even balking, at least for now, at asking for a federal loan for his state's unemployment benefits, which otherwise will run out of money at the end of the year." "While the dispute is the latest chapter of a long-running fight with the state's unemployment department — Sanford doesn't believe its statistics on unemployment are accurate and wants another financial audit of the agency — the standoff threatens to halt weekly payments of up to $326 for about 77,000 people." Keep your cash: SC governor rails against bailouts I feel sorry for those who are unemployed in his state during a deepening nationwide recession that is affecting his state more than most, why not do the audit while asking for the federal loan, and continue after receiving it? Surely there is SOMEONE in his state that is unemployed?? "The eldest of four siblings, Sanford says he never intended to go into politics. After working for a couple of years in the finacial world in New York, he returned to South Carolina, where he said he was shaped by his summers working on the family plantation." Not everyone has a generational family business or as a means to avoid unemployment, or even any family members that can help to provide temporary financial help or shelter. I tend to believe that unemployment statistics are greatly understated anyway, and that the method used by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics using a 60,000 HOUSEHOLD sample survey is a joke: "Every month, one-fourth of the households in the sample are changed, so that no household is interviewed more than 4 consecutive months. This practice avoids placing too heavy a burden on the households selected for the sample. After a household is interviewed for 4 consecutive months, it leaves the sample for 8 months and then is again interviewed for the same 4 calendar months a year later, before leaving the sample for good. This procedure results in approximately 75 percent of the sample remaining the same from month to month and 50 percent from year to year." http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htg m.htm The chronically unemployed are the most transient of the population, often moving from place to place due to the lack of a steady income. Even those who experience shorter periods of unemployment often move because they rent and make more or less income when they become employed again. How many people have lost their homes to foreclosure due to job loss over the past several years, and have no permanent address yet to be eligible for a survey? Has the BLS surveyed any of the 38,000 Katrina families still in those FEMA trailers yet? What about those displaced from Hurricane Ike and the Iowa floods last spring and summer? |
Rid0617 Member Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 363 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 3:49 am: | |
Lots of factories closing. This place really didn't have much in industry as they are still getting over textiles leaving. We're not quite sure what Sanford is up to. He has been at odds with the Legislature since he got in. Few too many Republicans here. Lots of that screw the poor people attitude. |
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 2854 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 7:23 am: | |
16.9% back in 1982, and I remember not having a problem finding work (manufacturing) in this area then. And we knew then, that Industries were not crashing and burning all around us. Different times indeed. |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 138 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 8:17 am: | |
Thanks Jennifer! Go plan some more windmills to "blow us away". PS. Notice how for the past couple of years her handlers have got her wearing glasses to give the illusion that she's studious and intelligent? |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5056 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 8:29 am: | |
She's always worn glasses and this mess is not her doing which, I'm sure, is why she wants to finish out her term as Gov. now that she has a friend in the White House. |
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 2857 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 8:32 am: | |
You're right as usual, Ongowwah. Jennifer Granholm has brought this fine nation of ours to its knees. How she could do that and impact Europe and Asia too is beyond me. Care to explain to us, the unknowing ? |
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 2203 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 8:37 am: | |
1982 was a bad time for manufacturing. This was about the time when all the OEM's were getting big, but the big 4 were laying off. I can recall being very disillusioned at that time and wondering why I was even in school because once I got out I would not be able to find any work. Jobs were available, but they were not great jobs; paying a little more than $3 an hour, and gasoline was about $1.25 - $1.50 a gallon. |
Bob Member Username: Bob
Post Number: 1227 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 9:32 am: | |
The difference now is the changes are transformational. Manufacturing jobs are not coming back, and the ones that do will pay significantly less than previous ones. We are moving to a knowledge based economy. This is akin to the change from agricultural to industrial. There will be lots of jobs lost, much like when farm jobs disappeared, but when it is over what is left will be much stronger or not exist. |
Urbanophile Member Username: Urbanophile
Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 9:40 am: | |
If it is any consolation, the same thing is happening in the technology field. I think the 1981-82 recession was a bellwether for manufacturing. It wasn't just a cyclical downtown. Instead, it marked the end of an era. Similarly, I think the 2001 recession marked the end of an era in technology. The future of tech in 20 years is going to look a lot like the future of manufacturing 20 years from 1982. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5059 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 9:49 am: | |
What the hell is a "knowledge based" economy? A new description for a "service based" economy? Engineers aren't knowledgeable? Tech people aren't knowledgeable? Sorry, but that's bs - a large national economy can't survive without industry. |
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 2973 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 9:51 am: | |
Quote: "what is left will be much stronger or not exist." Until we get some leadership, and hopefully we have, no area of industry is going to be strong. America is enduring a fleecing like never before. Invaded and conquered and not a shot fired. Sadly, few even realize it. |
Jams Member Username: Jams
Post Number: 7303 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 9:56 am: | |
Will it be "What you know" or "Who you know" based? |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 141 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 9:59 am: | |
Stash We had leadership and it had good points and bad points. What I find ironic is the immediate calls for cooperation and bi-partisianship coming from the left as soon as the Messiah was elected. Imagine that after 7 1/2 years of undermining and foot dragging from the other side of the aisle NOW it's time for bi-partisianship. Rallllaphhhh! |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 4507 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 9:59 am: | |
YAY! The Great Recessions hits Michigan like a plague and there's is no cure in sight. |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3619 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:04 am: | |
This is the end of our dependence on credit. Feed the pig. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5060 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:12 am: | |
What are the estimates for total unemployment - as in off the rolls included? Has anyone run across those numbers? |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 4510 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:20 am: | |
I'm not feeding that corporate pig!
That Pig looks good when it becomes bacon. |
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 2974 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:21 am: | |
Quote: "We had leadership" Sure, about 70 years ago. Since then it's been appeasing lobbyists and "interest groups". The last 16 years have been horrific. |
Bob Member Username: Bob
Post Number: 1229 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:26 am: | |
And I think we are about to end the politics as usual. When people lose jobs, they are more interested in who is going to fix it. If Obama doesn't do anything, if Congress fails, then they will be hell to pay in 2010 and 2012. The GOP better be taking notes, but after the auto loan debacle, it looks like it is business as usual for them. |
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 2975 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:28 am: | |
Quote: "This is the end of our dependence on credit." It should have never been allowed to happen. Anyone with the ability to operate a calculator could see this coming. This was a cooked up deal between our present so-called government and the banks. All one has to do is think about it. They got a fat payday, we got thrown into an economy of cheaper wages and living standards. It's a win-win for the corporate elite. |
Jams Member Username: Jams
Post Number: 7304 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:31 am: | |
quote:Let’s look at the BLS definition of “Employed” and ”Unemployed”: “People are classified as employed if they did any work at all as paid employees during the reference week; worked in their own business, profession, or on their own farm; or worked without pay at least 15 hours in a family business or farm. People are also counted as employed if they were temporarily absent from their jobs because of illness, bad weather, vacation, labor-management disputes, or personal reasons. People are classified as unemployed if they meet all of the following criteria: They had no employment during the reference week; they were available for work at that time; and they made specific efforts to find employment sometime during the 4-week period ending with the reference week. Persons laid off from a job and expecting recall need not be looking for work to be counted as unemployed. The unemployment data derived from the household survey in no way depend upon the eligibility for or receipt of unemployment insurance benefits.” Statistically speaking, these are narrow definitions. And that is OK. But we must be aware they also create a structural downward bias in the reported Rate Of Unemployment. That means a low Rate Of Unemployment may not reflect what is happening in the “real” world. http://www.financialsense.com/ editorials/cooke/2008/0516.htm l |
Trainman Member Username: Trainman
Post Number: 688 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:34 am: | |
There is legislation in Lansing to allow County Sales taxes. This will generate more tax money to stop the cuts of government services that our elderly, handicapped and low-income people need and the loss of much needed government jobs and services including education. In my opinion though, I think Michigan needs more private investments from industries as opposed to higher taxes. I really don’t think higher taxes is the answer but I sincerely hope we can get our economy back where people are working and making a decent living again. Please support Bring Back SMART to Livonia and southeast Michigan. Danny, that means YOU. |
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 1408 Registered: 01-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:49 am: | |
A knowledge-based economy is exactly what was touted by the Shrub's President's Council of Economic Advisors, Gregory Mankiw in particular was quoted in Wired Magazine in '04 as well as in trade publications stating the the loss of manufacturing jobs to offshoring, and tech jobs to outsourcing was a good thing. It appears that free market apologists will now need to add the medical and legal fields to the growing list of career employment opportunities being lost to outsourcing as well. Not everyone possesses the education, experience and/or intelligence to become some kind of ideas consultant guru. Perhaps there will be a coup or revolution similar to the French in the future, since there appears to be far more people that stand to become victims of the so-called knowledge based economy, than those who will benefit from it. It would likely be much more bloody, and the battle would last far longer IMO. |
Bob Member Username: Bob
Post Number: 1230 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:52 am: | |
Macomb County voted for a veterans millage and it passed overwhelmingly. And the zoo tax also passed with strong support recently, if there is a good cause and reason for it, people will vote. If not, then they won't. Of course there are the morons like Leon Drolet who think we should have no government at all and any tax is bad. So I guess by that rationale we should have all dirt roads and outhouses. |
7051 Member Username: 7051
Post Number: 178 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:56 am: | |
If one does some web research, one will find that the current federal and state definitions of "unemployed" were modified between 1989 and 1994. This created downward estimates of unemployment numbers. Opponents claim from 2%-12% additional. Realistically, unbiased experts say adding 2% to the current rates would be more accurate. |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3620 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:59 am: | |
>I'm not feeding that corporate pig! Not that pig. Feed the piggy bank. Save dammit! |
Zzshock Member Username: Zzshock
Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2008
| Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 3:20 am: | |
And what will those people revolt against Flanders? Other countries for wanting their piece of the pie? The computer and internet for making jobs obsolete? |