 
Bigb23
Member
Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 2887
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 8:52 am: |    |
9 AM. It better be good. |
Bigb23
Member
Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 2888
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 9:05 am: | |
$13.4 Billion from TARP fund. |
Detroitstar
Member
Username: Detroitstar
Post Number: 1394
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 9:22 am: | |
Bush finally did something right! Its not exactly the best solution, but better than the alternative. |
Bobl
Member
Username: Bobl
Post Number: 295
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 9:28 am: | |
As good as the news could have been. It will still be a daunting task for the domestic car makers to survive. They are competing with offshore firms that are being heavily subsidized at home, and have numerous southern and republican lawmakers on their side here. |
Bigb23
Member
Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 2890
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 9:41 am: | |
This administration has done a pretty good job of Union busting. Granted, some things had to be done as far as job banks etc. But wiping out the wages of the middle class here in the Midwest, seems to have been their mission. |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 2755
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 9:49 am: | |
Did you hear him? He really took US automakers to the woodshed. At least he isn't going to force the bankruptcy. I wonder why he thought the US automakers were planning a "disorderly bankruptcy." Does one have a choice, disorderly or orderly? |
Rjk
Member
Username: Rjk
Post Number: 1069
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 9:51 am: | |
Bush gets the snap and punts to the twenty where it's caught by Obama.
Realistically you really couldn't ask for anything more. |
Bigb23
Member
Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 2891
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 9:52 am: | |
Ford, GM, and Chrysler to pull out of the Nascar series ?
Ha, let those southern red necks drink Dutch Budweiser, and watch Honda's and Toyota's race around in circles.
|
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5064
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 9:52 am: | |
He just bailed and put everything on Obama's plate.
A CSM analyst just put next year's sales numbers at 8-9 million units. I have a hard time seeing it THAT low but people will really have to step up if it is.
(Message edited by lilpup on December 19, 2008) |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 2756
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 9:58 am: | |
The banks have had their money for a couple of months now. When do they have to produce plans for their viability? I think they should have to do it too, or give the money back.
I didn't hear Bush say this but it was just reported on Marketplace that one of the strings attached is to reduce the wages and benefits of the workforce to match the foreign carmakers. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 14946
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 10:04 am: | |
This is a setup!
The devil WILL be in these details.
This is a classic Problem-Reaction-Solution!
Designed from the start, so that W can step up and say something like, "I know what it's like to have a company fail, and I know what it's like to have Daddy bail you out. Think of ME as your daddy."
There is more to this than meets the eye... |
Awfavre
Member
Username: Awfavre
Post Number: 269
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 10:04 am: | |
Well, wages shouldn’t be an issue. GM workers average $29.78 per hour, while Toyota averages $30 per hour. The difference is in benefits. GM workers have better pension & healthcare benefits than Toyota, & they have considerably more retirees than Toyota, so pension & retiree healthcare benefits cost more than Toyota. |
East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 1733
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 10:11 am: | |
Maybe all the Toyota employees should retire now, to level the retiree costs.
Well, this is good news that Bush bailed out GM and Chrysler and kept the US economy from imploding further. Now, hopefully those 2 companies will be able to formulate solid plans going forward (in the next 90 days). |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 14947
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 10:19 am: | |
We just willingly gave the government the arsenal of democracy. Everyone who agrees with this is party to the state taking control over vehicle manufacturing.
This is a historic day...what's next? Oh yeah, introduction of "The People's Car".
Any color you'd like, as long as it's gray.
(Thinking of getting one, Winston, for your commute to the Ministry of Truth? Isn't it just grand that a mere clerk can afford one now?) |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5065
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 10:26 am: | |
No, nothing like that's written into it. There's not even a 'car czar.' Either GM and Chrysler build a convincing argument for their survivability by March 31 or they're toast. |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 626
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 10:37 am: | |
I wonder if "reduce the wages and benefits of the workforce to match the foreign carmakers" includes the white-collar workers and executives?
If so, they better be prepared for larger paycuts than the union workers. Not to mention cuts in pensions for the retirees. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4063
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 10:39 am: | |
quote:Well, wages shouldn’t be an issue. GM workers average $29.78 per hour, while Toyota averages $30 per hour.
And just the same, BMW assembly jobs in South Carolina average $36,000/year. The premise of establishing "equal" wages is bunk. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 2983
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:00 am: | |
Quote: "Everyone who agrees with this is party to the state taking control over vehicle manufacturing."
What is the alternative? It's a take it or leave it, no decision to be made. From the sounds of it, The Government is not relenting on their concession demands. If the autos have no plan (including wage and benefit concessions) in 90 days, the money has to be repaid immediately. Again, there is no choice to be made. The UAW's arrogance has pissed everyone off, and for no reason. Their defiance didn't work. A poll the other day has 75% of the country saying let them fold. Logically, that's what should happen. This would create demand for new car companies built around parameters that doomed the existing. That is really how our economy is supposed to function. Not artificially sustain a failed model. No future in that.
And before someone says "Oh it's just the economy right now", the big 3 have been in a downhill slide since the late 70's. A few eureka's intermixed with the decline, but never really pulling out of it. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 975
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:03 am: | |
After January 20th, the new President and new Treasury secretary and a Congress with stronger Democratic majorities can fashion whatever plan they want. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5066
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:11 am: | |
Stash, a large put of it IS the economy right now. Everybody is losing. Industry unit sales next year are predicted to be HALF of what they were in 1999 or even 2007.
The national economy is falling off a cliff. Are there ANY major bright spots that are going to prop us up short term? |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 2967
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:17 am: | |
Nice, Bush saves the country again for the foreign invaders!
I was hoping the union contract would be cancelled so the automakers could then be more productive and profitable. |
Mashugruskie
Member
Username: Mashugruskie
Post Number: 372
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:22 am: | |
My husband told me that Ken Cockrel made phone calls to all of the mayors in the South and tried to get them to change the minds of Southern senators. What Cockrel came back with (from what my husband stated) was that the Southern mayors believed this was just Detroit's problem and that the South just did not get it.
Mr. Mayor must have felt alone on an island. I hope we can pull this off. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 2984
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:35 am: | |
Quote: "After January 20th, the new President and new Treasury secretary and a Congress with stronger Democratic majorities can fashion whatever plan they want."
Oh sure, the Democratic saviors are going to rush in and infuse Detroit with whatever it demands. The majority of the country said "let them fold". It isn't just the GOP that feels this way.
Lefty, grab your calender and magic marker, I'm going to agree with you. If the US autoworkers have any sense, they will vote the union out. This is their last chance. |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 2758
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:44 am: | |
It was not the majority of the country, it was the senators of relatively lower population states, who have an equal vote with higher population states. The bicameral legislature is set up that way. The majority rule is in the House, which did pass the help plan. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 978
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:47 am: | |
"Oh sure, the Democratic saviors are going to rush in and infuse Detroit with whatever it demands."
I didn't say that. But all of the hand-wringing over specifics of the plan ignore the fact that the intent is only to keep things moving until Obama gets into office. Whatever conditions the Dems want to impose, their goal isn't going to be to destroy the UAW, which is what Corker and Co. were about. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5067
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 12:08 pm: | |
Not only that, but Obama is the first Rust Belt region President-elect since the 1920s. Ford wasn't in office under the best of circumstances so he couldn't affect much policy but Obama's going in with a mandate and a much better overall understanding than dipshit limousine liberals like Waxman and Pelosi! |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 628
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 12:25 pm: | |
Sstashmoo, have you heard of the "Global Economy"? Foreign automakers receive significant market protection and financial assistance from their governments. Perhaps "That is really how our economy is supposed to function." |
Andyguard73
Member
Username: Andyguard73
Post Number: 288
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 1:04 pm: | |
With all the talk about the health care costs for retirees, I was wondering if any of the Big 3 took a stance on national health care? It seems like they would be big proponents of it, but I can't find anything on google either way.
(Message edited by andyguard73 on December 19, 2008) |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5068
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 1:19 pm: | |
GM was one of the first major corporations to advocate for national health care and all of the Big 3 were strongly and vocally in support of Clinton's health reform when it was proposed.
Many don't know this but before John Dingell had his House seat that seat was his father's. Between the two of them a proposal for national health care has been introduced in Congress every year since 1933. Clinton's administration was the first time anything started to take hold.
Walter Reuther also advocated national health care while he was President of the UAW.
Rather than using Google check newspaper archives of the time. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 2986
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 1:29 pm: | |
Quote: " have you heard of the "Global Economy"?"
Sure have, and it's meaning is open to interpretation.
The US has been thrown into this mix with third world countries, left vulnerable with almost zero protection or assurance of fair trade. The door has been left open for every "opportunist" to fleece.
In China the government owns half of every business, any profit that business makes, must be shared. It's called Communism. The people live a pauper's existence. Anytime one attempts to compete, they must at least parallel their opponent. Are you ready for that?
Many of the items being dumped in this country from Asia, we couldn't even buy the raw materials to produce, and hope to sell at a profit. Go to HarborFreight and look at the prices. They have like 10 piece C-clamp sets for $9. We couldn't even package them here for that, let alone make the clamps.
"Global economy" is a buzz phrase that allows the bilking of this country. The sheep have accepted it. |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 3937
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 11:32 pm: | |
Andyguard,
Along with what pup showed, Ron is a huge supporter of single-payer.
I'm not sure how Gannon can call this bad news considering the other options being bandied about. Not only that, but this plan sticks only so long as Bush is an office. He could have called for even more strict strings. It really doesn't matter given who's taking the wheel in just a few weeks. Who the hell cares which restrictions are placed on these loans given that they hold only as long as he's in office? Bush has never been a friend to the American worker or American industries unless their names were "Halliburton" or "Blackwater". So, give us the money, and just go the hell away, already.
BTW, I'm not usually a vengeful person, but boy what I wouldn't give to see the reactions on the faces of Corker, Shelby & Co., right now. In comparison to their plans, Detroit made out like bandits, and with one of the worst presidents in modern American history at the helms, no less.
Thank you, Southern Senators, for f%cking up just enough to make our president's f%ck-ups look better by comparison. The Big Three should send send each of them a massive American SUV wrapped in a huge, novelty bow for Christmas. |