  Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 656 Registered: 03-2005 |
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20090126/METRO /901260429 I just can't believe something so tragic was allowed to happen in this day and age. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3644 Registered: 06-2008 |
Don't know what you mean by "allowed" to happen. It does pose an interesting dilemma though. Obviously, a power company needs some way to enforce their contracts with customers, and if they aren't allowed to discontinue service, then nobody would ever pay their bill. On the other hand, we don't want people dying over this sort of thing. Not sure what the solution is. | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 602 Registered: 05-2006 |
I always thought the solution that power companies had was no shut offs during Jan-Feb. You can always do the shut offs in April or May or June and the companies will still get their money. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3404 Registered: 07-2004 |
Scrooge: If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 831 Registered: 04-2008 |
Too bad, but I don't blame the electric company; they are not a charity. The man should have asked for help. If he was not mentally able, someone should have been able to help him. I wonder if he has kids? | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 4492 Registered: 02-2007 |
This is ridiculous...over a bill..many people with special needs people in their houses are at risk...vents etc. they should understand that some do not have the resources to alert social services and sometimes they don't respond in a timely manner...during the winter or heat of summer... | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1964 Registered: 08-2006 |
Consumer's energy sent me a shutoff notice for $81 last month which I paid, next thing I know I have another one (a shut off notice) only a month later for $89. HOW CAN I GET SHUT OFF NOTICES WHEN THE PAYMENT ISN'T EVEN A MONTH LATE?!? So yeah, they love to flex their might in the winter months. I hope this 93 yo's family sues the piss right out of the utility company. | ||
Rickinatlanta Member Username: Rickinatlanta Post Number: 244 Registered: 07-2006 |
Our major electric utility here does not attempt to shut off power for a residence until the third month's bill has been issued without having received payment or at least a phone call from the customer asking for some sort of payment arrangement. They also do not cut power when the weather is projected to be at or below freezing or above something like 90 degrees in the Summer. Of course, as stated above, no one knows if this 93 year old man had anyone who could look out for him or help him with this type situation. I'm not sure what a "limiter" apparently used by this utility is intended to do as it looks like it may limit power to less than necessary to provide heat if it's electric. | ||
Purpleheart Member Username: Purpleheart Post Number: 26 Registered: 01-2009 |
I know this is different but same? During the power outage five years ago my dad, who resided at his home in Shelby Twp, was on a ventilator. I had to tube feed him and etc... When the power went out the nurse left me alone with him to go to her own house*. After awhile the power on his back up batteries were going down. I called the Shelby Twp Fire Dept and they arrived to advise me that it would be better if my dad stayed in his own home and they would come by every four hours to re-charge his batteries! They said the hospitals were also without power and from the runs all day that they made, is where the suggestion came from "keeping him where he is." Well they did come over every four hours around the clock for two days! Yes, we were without power for two complete days. And my dad did just fine with the re-charge. I just ran a cord out to the road and they came over and parked in front and started up their generator and plugged me in to charge his ventilator batteries. I guess it's where you live that determines how you will survive during an emergency. And of course, sadly in this event that we are talking about, it's who you have as a care giver. *- Note, the nurse from St. Joseph's called me after the power came back on and asked me if my father was still ALIVE? Needless to say I had some choice words for her and fired the whole dang company! Imagine leaving him in the middle of a power failure to attend to her own "healthy family." | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 984 Registered: 08-2004 |
His family (if he has relatives) could sue that power company. How dare they turn off the power in the month of JANUARY?? | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 564 Registered: 02-2006 |
Maybe if his family cared so much they all could have chipped and helped him with his bills. They better not come to the power company with their hands out now. If anything comes of it legally it should be some rule that services can't be shut off from Dec.1 to March 1. | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 501 Registered: 08-2008 |
Purpleheart, what an incredible story about your father! He was so lucky to have you there. Those two days must have been so frightening. That nurse leaving your father in jeopardy is unbelievable. Thank God for the Shelby Twp Fire Department -- they saved your dad's life. | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 716 Registered: 05-2007 |
I sign up for utility service and say that I'm going to pay my bill. I don't pay. I don't pay some more. I continue not to pay or let the utility company know I'm in a hard spot financially. Utility company is fed up with me stealing from them and cuts me off. Now I suit the utility company because I screwed up??? That's like writing a bunch of bad checks and suing the person who cashed them for your bounced check fees. Society keeps trying to move further and further away from self accountability. | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 502 Registered: 08-2008 |
So people should freeze to death in the interest of self-accountability? I don't think death is a fair sentence for being late with your payment. The comparison to writing bad checks fails in that the scenario does not involve sub-zero weather. Yes, people should be accountable. Yes, people should pay their bills. No, they should not be allowed to freeze to death if they don't. (Message edited by Downtown_lady on January 26, 2009) | ||
Zimm Member Username: Zimm Post Number: 99 Registered: 10-2006 |
you know Cambrian, i got a shut off notice from Consumer's the other day as well, despite my bills being paid on time and in full. i'm planning to call and bitch tomorrow. | ||
Rickinatlanta Member Username: Rickinatlanta Post Number: 245 Registered: 07-2006 |
Purpleheart, The utility here I mentioned above has a "Critical Customer List" that's kept current for those customers who are in situations such as your Dad's. If power goes out in an area, all effort is made to get those type customers back up asap. Of course, that all depends on what major circuits are out that may feed the individual customer's home. I'm sure you've already done so, but a small generator would work very well in that type situation as well. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 985 Registered: 08-2004 |
There's a thin line between demanding your money and cutting someone off in the middle of winter. The company killed that man. They are responsible and should be sued for thousands, if not millions. | ||
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field Post Number: 1562 Registered: 01-2008 |
My guess is that the limiter allowed for just enough energy to warm the home that man was in to about 65 degrees or so. They might have given him written notice of how the limitation works, maybe no extra energy available for washing, bathing, cooking, or light, as that could be a loophole in the state rules during the winter months. At 93 years of age, the old man may have not understood what he could or could not do. (Message edited by Flanders_field on January 26, 2009) | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 1113 Registered: 11-2003 |
A little more info in this article. http://www.mlive.com/news/bay- city/index.ssf/2009/01/autopsy _bay_city_man_froze_ins.html | ||
Purpleheart Member Username: Purpleheart Post Number: 28 Registered: 01-2009 |
First of all after the power failure I did buy a generator. Just at the moment one couldn't buy a generator if one's life depended on it, neverless the gas to run it! The point I was trying to make, in reference to this man who died as result of power being turned off, is to surround yourself with people who truly care. In my dad's case he had me, one who wouldn't leave when the road got tough. Even in a case of that guy who let his mother die and he went off to spend her SSI check, someone needs to be contact with others. We need to look out for our neighbor. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 1078 Registered: 02-2007 |
Nicely stated Purpleheart. | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 216 Registered: 10-2007 |
Gotta love people here who think that freezing to death is a proper penalty for a 93 year old man who may have been senile and just forgotten to pay his bills. And people who seem to think that it should be OK for the electric company - in this case Bay City Electric Light & Power, a unit of the city government - to effectively shut off people's power (even 93 year old people) in the middle of winter, in order to teach him a lesson of "self accountability". Real milk of human kindness stuff there. Yes, there's such a thing as personal responsibility, but there's also such a thing as social responsibility, which seems to have failed completely in this case. | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 717 Registered: 05-2007 |
So, everyone knows a house doesn't cool down that cold in a short period of time. What stopped the Gentleman from calling the utility company, neighbor, or friend to see why his furnace wasn't running? That seems like a little common sense. If the guy indeed had dementia, how is a utility company supposed to know that? Is it their fault the guy is living at home by himself when he should be getting cared for? For all we know, the utility service worker could have explained everything to Marvin who was perceived to have understood. If someone fails to let the utility company know they don't understand how a limiter works, is it the utility company's responsibility to check in on that person daily, just in case? If you sold a car to someone and told then it leaked oil and needed to be topped off occasionally, and they said "no problem I can do that," would you still go over their house and check up on them to make sure the oil was being topped off? The buyer gave you the impression of understanding. | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 217 Registered: 10-2007 |
From the Associated Press story on this incident: "Schur had no children and his wife had died several years ago." It only takes a few hours of sub-freezing temperatures to kill someone that old. His neighbor did check on him - it was he who found his body. It was Bay City Light & Power and the Bay City city government who didn't give a damn if he died. Well, the joke's on them, because they sure aren't getting their money now. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1873 Registered: 11-2003 |
How is the public utility supposed to know the circumstances? Perhaps they should check, instead of acting like a faceless corporation only concerned with profits. One of the charities I donate to: http://www.thawfund.org/ | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 503 Registered: 08-2008 |
Another comparison Raptor, this time it's oil in the car. Once again the comparison fails in that the scenario does not involve sub-zero weather. Let me just put it this way Raptor: every single point that you mentioned may be valid, but it comes across as very hard-hearted. Can you find a little bit of sympathy or compassion for a 93-year-old that died unnecessarily? | ||
Crystal Member Username: Crystal Post Number: 365 Registered: 05-2007 |
from wnem.com: "Schur’s neighbor, Herndon, said Schur had a utility bill on his kitchen table with a large amount of money clipped to it, with the intention of paying that bill." | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 975 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: Yep and if they win they will just pass the savings right on to the rest of us. You know as well as i do that would only just raise the prices for everyone else. quote: As an eligibility specialist for the Department of Human Services (one of the people who handle these matters) I take great offense to the above statement. We bust our asses to help people in need to only be shit on by our ungrateful clients (small percentage of them but the ungrateful ones stand out) and the general public who think we are useless and overpaid (neither are true). We can't help anyone who doesn't help themselves i.e. apply for help. We aren't mind readers and I am sorry if it sounds harsh we do not have time to check on our clients. We are doing the work of 2 or 3 people. On top of maintaining a case load of around 500 cases (Medicaid, Food Assistance Program, and Child Dare Care, most of the 500 cases have multiple programs open) we have to perform intake of new applications, answer the phone (50 calls at my desk today), do between 30 and 50 yearly reviews each month, and handle all the State Emergency Relief Applications (Shut offs notices for utilities, forclosures, evictions, car repair, car purchase, etc.) of our active clients. And the SER's have to be done in 10 days which is awesome because most people don't turn them in until the date the power is due to be turned off, often at 4:55 PM on a Friday and want it done immediately. All of that and we get paid a hell of a lot less than someone with our education levels would make in the private sector. Why do we do it? Stupidity, I think. No I like the idea that I am doing something good for society and I can sleep at night knowing I didn't dupe some old guy out of his life savings just so I could make a buck. Forgive me I just hate seeing people inadvertently blaming my co-workers. I hate Consumers Energy as much as the next guy but they are not a charity and it is no accident that the most shut offs happen in January. I mean some people think it is more important to spend all their money on Christmas Gifts than on their bills. Take it from someone who deals with this sort of thing everyday. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 790 Registered: 11-2006 |
I am ashamed that such a thing happened in my home town. Robert Belleman should step down as City Manager, I have never been really impressed with this style of management. He often has such empty and mechanical replies like in the Mlive article. I guess the saving grace is he can be fired at any time not needing to wait for an election. I guess the irony is when the city was on NBC in December with the story that the "city of lights" christmas light display was not held because the city didn't have the funds for the lights. The bottom line is Bay City Light and Power, is a public entity and has a monopoly with in Bay City, and honestly there should be more flexibility in such situations. Hopefully the city council will take up the issue. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1649 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: No, they didn't. It was a tragic accident and the utility company is no more responsible than the 93 year old man himself. |
