  Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 986 Registered: 08-2004 |
Cheddar_bob, there are laws in other states that turning off the power in the winter is illegal. I don't understand why Michigan has not adopted this statute. We are not exactly Arizona. It's a basic human rights issue. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1651 Registered: 10-2003 |
The fact that other states have laws against turning power off has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that your statement is wrong. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 987 Registered: 08-2004 |
Cheddar_bob, it's obvious you don't value human life and would rather put the blame on someone else than where it truly belongs (the city manager, power utility company). Call it manslaughter, this was a very tragic death. Now it has become national news. Way to go, Bay City. I hope the city manager and others responsible are ousted out of office. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1652 Registered: 10-2003 |
Why isn't it equally the old man's fault for not paying his bill for four months? He had the money, there were thousands of dollars in his house, including the money for the electric bill. Are you trying to imply that it is the responsibility of power companies to evaluate the mental health and well being of it's customers? It's the fucking power company, not community mental health. I don't value human life? This from the person that once said, "AIDS doesn't just infect anyone. It affects those who have committed major, serious sins"? I guess you don't value the life of Arthir Ashe who died of AIDS due to a blood transfusion. Way to be a hypocrite. Isn't it about time for you to reaffirm your insecurities by telling everyone that you're highly educated and went to a prestigious school? | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 625 Registered: 01-2008 |
It is terribly sad that a 93 yr old man froze to death. What is disgusting is some people on this thread seem totally insensitive to this man's age and his dilemma. It appears this poor old man had no family and no advocates. Some comments on this thread are so offensive that I can only wish the same fate for them. Consider that a curse. More disgusting is the utility company's lack of morals and compassion. Our elders and our children need protection. If this is a harbinger of things to come, I can only say say, God help us. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1655 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yeah, it's terribly sad that a 93 year old man died. It was a tragic accident, key word being accident. Was it the man's fault if he had dementia? No. Was it the electric company's fault? No. They placed a limiter on the line, a system that had worked for 18 years without a problem. There is no reason to be pointing fingers at anyone because it was an accident. | ||
Gralr Member Username: Gralr Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2008 |
Just a thought, Remember in the old days before common sense went out the window, when rules were guidelines, when people cared for people and manuals were not God. It seems this guy was there for a long time? If he had the money attached to the bills obviously he had been mindful for all those years to pay them on time. When we had bank accounts and something happened usually we got a call giving us a chance to correct what was something out of the norm like maybe an over draft or something of that nature. I'll bet if this was 20 years ago someone would have looked at his account and realized something might have been wrong. With the money sitting on his table maybe he was expecting someone to knock at his door so he could pay them, or he certainly had the intention but maybe he was too sick to complete the process? Obviously there is something we don't know. Our society has drifted from independent common sense thinkers to a nation of yes men and women who have seemingly lost the care and concern for others that made our society a little better in years past. | ||
Reddog289 Member Username: Reddog289 Post Number: 872 Registered: 08-2007 |
One other reason I don,t plan on living here any longer then I need too. Too Damn cold. I love them shut off notices when you get them in the summer for the "budget plan" when your not on it. | ||
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott Post Number: 123 Registered: 05-2008 |
I'm embarassed this happened in my hometown. I'm all about personal responsibility but in this case, his neighbors should've been looking out for him. | ||
Terridarlin Member Username: Terridarlin Post Number: 103 Registered: 02-2007 |
It seems like he was suffering from dementia, and that's sad. It's too bad the neighbors didn't check on him everyday, but they didn't, and no amount of wishing will make the outcome different. If some good could come from this tragedy, perhaps everybody will watch out and care for their neighbors. | ||
Dalangdon Member Username: Dalangdon Post Number: 162 Registered: 03-2006 |
I work for the power company in Seattle, and we give people every opportunity to make partial payments to avoid cutoff. Some people will stretch it out, and pay their full balance once a year. Also, there are plenty of programs for people that need help, and if a church pledges to pay a balance, we turn the power back on right away. Of course, we are municipally owned, so there's no investors or stocks to worry about, and our rates are quite inexpensive, since we own our own dams. Yet despite our leniency we still manage to break even each year, and contribute to the local tax base. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 988 Registered: 08-2004 |
The neighbors are not the problem. He was FOUND DEAD by his neighbors. It's the city manager and utility's fault. They don't give a hoot about human life. We had subzero temperatures last week for goodness sake. | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 718 Registered: 05-2007 |
Can we please get one thing clear here? The power was NOT shut off! A limiter was put on the line so the home owner would have enough power to heat the home. When the homeowner uses too many electrical items at once, the limiter pops like a circuit breaker. The homeowner then merely has to walk over to it, and flip the reset. It's not rocket science. It's not the power company cutting the line. This is a method that has been in use for a long time to allow people with accounts in arrears to still have heat in their home during the winter months, while being able to figure out a payment plan. I'm surprised you people aren't piling on the Limiter manufacturer for creating a product that doesn't automatically reset. I mean they had to know it would kill somebody, right? http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/w o.jsp?IA=US2001007964&DISPLAY= DESC http://www.wectech.com/SLA2000 LP.pdf I think it's very tragic that somebody died as a result of freezing in their own home; however I think it is also tragic that a majority of people here are quick to pile on the utility company, the city government, the neighbors, etc calling them evil murders. | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 222 Registered: 10-2007 |
quote: Ahhh, so he didn't freeze because he was an old infirm man with possible dementia. He froze because he was stupid. | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 509 Registered: 08-2008 |
quote: Maybe if you're 93 and have dementia, it is rocket science. So maybe rather than saying an electric company should not turn off the power in the winter, we should say that they should not put a limiter on the line in the winter, OK? | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 3511 Registered: 11-2007 |
From the above linked article : quote: In single digit or sub zero weather, the effect on a old man could be fatal. Was he in the dark when the shutoff occurred ? No flashlight ? No phone ? | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1657 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Oh, please. It wasn't the city manager's fault. It was Ltorivia485's fault. Why didn't you help him, Ltorivia485? You should be ashamed of yourself. What with that degree you love to brag about, you should have known something was afoul and acted on it. This falls squarely on your shoulders and you should be held accountable. You have no respect for human life. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4424 Registered: 02-2004 |
Everyone has to pay their bills. Doesn't matter about your age. If your utiliies are turn off, it time to problem solve right away. Where is his family when his lights been shut off? Where are the good people in this world who would help less fortunate? | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 981 Registered: 11-2003 |
sad day when I actually agree with Danny. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1661 Registered: 10-2003 |
He had no children and his wife had died a few years ago. There was nobody for him. It was a tragic accident, nothing more. | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 226 Registered: 10-2007 |
HE HAD NO FAMILY. Doesn't anyone read the thread? | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1966 Registered: 08-2006 |
Perhaps the utility company should have stepped up and referred the old man for a psych evaluation rather than trying to teach him a lesson on "personal accountability". | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 991 Registered: 08-2004 |
Cheddar_bob, keep your insults to yourself. The bottom line is as Cambrian stated the power utility company could have done something better than try to teach him "personal accountability." Isn't that what former president George Bush and Company tried to lecture us all these past eight years? Where did that go? No where. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4426 Registered: 02-2004 |
Eastsideal He has family rather than the nuclear. He's not the last of his kind. | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 1662 Registered: 10-2003 |
I haven't insulted anybody. Your contention that the utility company is at fault is no more or less faulty and wrong than my contention that it is your fault. You like to tell people how smart you are so you should have done something to stop this tragedy because, well after all, you're so smart. Cambrian, mental evaluation, or even referal is not the responsibility of a utility company. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1969 Registered: 08-2006 |
I disagree, companies do have a social responsibility. Since this man had no family the utility company manager who ordered the limiter could have placed a non-emergency call to the Bay City Police to perform a welfare check on this elderly man. The police would have brought him to the local hospital for evaluation. | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 5568 Registered: 04-2005 |
If this man had not paid his credit card bills, and Visa cut him off so he couldn't buy food and he then died of starvation, would everybody be blaming Visa? I don't think so. | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 720 Registered: 05-2007 |
JCole -> EXACTLY! | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 231 Registered: 10-2007 |
Starvation is a much slower process, and a much less predictible result of cutting off someone's credit card. Putting a difficult to restart limiter on the electric power of a 93 year old man in Bay City MI in January has a reasonably predictible result of leaving that old man sitting in a freezing house. It would only take a few hours for this to kill him. To say that the power company and their operators, the Bay City government, didn't know there was a possibly senile 93 year old man living there alone is to say that they simply didn't care to check. No one talked to him, no one talked to his neighbors, no one bothered to find out why he wasn't paying his bill, no one called social services. They just stuck the limiter on his power in the middle of winter, and stuck a notice on his door that he may or may not have seen, and left without giving a damn what happened after that. After all, it wasn't their problem. That's a pretty damn heartless thing for anyone to do it seems to me, but it's particularly indefensible for a publicly owned utility. (Message edited by eastsideal on January 27, 2009) | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 982 Registered: 11-2003 |
Who is trying to teach a lesson in personal responsibility? Christ, the limiter was only put in place because the guy appears to have a history of not paying his bills. It is there so he can have enough power so he could keep his heat on even though he doesn't pay his bills. If you ask me it sounds like they were going out of their way to keep his heat on. It is not the responsibility of the power company to determine if a man needs a psych eval! Are you fucking kidding me. What fairy tale fucking world do you idiots live in? |
