  Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1640 Registered: 11-2005 |
I would just like to point out that the Free Press is reporting that LeDuff got his facts wrong or did not care enough to actually ensure this guy's body was found. The Free Press says that Detroit police DID respond to his initial 911 call but couldn't find the body, which is understandable. Maybe if LeDuff had actually helped police instead of tell them to check out an elevator shaft in some burned-out building, they would have found it the first time. Then again, it wouldn't have been such a sensational story if he had helped them find it. http://www.freep.com/article/2 0090129/NEWS01/90129053/Police +recover+man+frozen+in+ice+in+ Detroit+warehouse | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1217 Registered: 12-2003 |
Didn't care to ensure that they found the body? It was only after LeDuff got the Detroit Fire Dept. involved that they DID find the body. | ||
Wood Member Username: Wood Post Number: 86 Registered: 05-2006 |
I am a lawyer, realitycheck. And I can read. http://www.laobserved.com/arch ive/2004/01/piling_on_leduf.ph p http://www.slate.com/id/209270 8/ http://www.sanfranmag.com/stor y/charlie-leduffs-bay-area-sec ret http://www.villagevoice.com/20 03-05-13/news/all-the-wrong-mo ves/1 leduff is a public figure and his issues with reporting the truth in the past have been acknowledged and documented. that's all I ever said. (Message edited by wood on January 29, 2009) | ||
Spitty Member Username: Spitty Post Number: 293 Registered: 07-2004 |
Why don't we give Matty an award for sheltering the homeless people that we as a society, (be it City, County, State, or Country) are unable to provide shelter for. Sure somebody died in there (though we may never know how), but because of this unsecured building, there are people who are able to stave off freezing to death outside in the cold. I guess the outrage should be aimed less at how unsafe Manny buildings are, or at Charlie's journalistic approach, and more at what we can do to help the increasing number of people who can't provide for themselves. | ||
Realitycheck Member Username: Realitycheck Post Number: 301 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for your clarification, Counselor. Point taken. San Francisco mag clip from Feb. '04 (3rd link) does state flatly that he plagiarized in '95. Because I have no first-hand knowledge of Charlie's work practices or current DetNews editing vigilance, I won't argue whether there should be a 'statue of limitation,' in effect, on assuming a professional might have -- or be held to -- higher standards of attribution 14 years later. I do know he didn't plagiarize today's exclusive . . . and acknowledge again that this doesn't mean we can trust every word as Gospel (oops, bad example?) Village Voice clip in last link simply says he befriended Jayson Blair, which turns out to have been stupendously lousy judgment -- but surely not a lifetime ban on credibility. Slate piece from '03 says: quote:LA Observed piece from '04 describes him as a "fearless reporter and go-for-the-gut storyteller," and is headlined "Piling on LeDuff." Let's go to the subhead: quote:So, I'll stipulate that Charlie LeDuff has what you call a "documented history of plagiarism and outright fabrication" . . . from more than a decaqde ago. --> IN SUMMATION, ladies and gentlemen of the forum, it's up to each of you to decide what level of credence and respect are earned by this reporter . . . and by me . . . and by attorney 'Wood.' RealityCheck rests. | ||
Wood Member Username: Wood Post Number: 87 Registered: 05-2006 |
I hated pulling out the "I'm a lawyer" card, realitycheck, but you were essentially accusing me of defamation without any legal or factual basis! Sorry for being a prick. mr. leduff's style of writing has a place, but it definitely blurs some lines when placed in the context of traditional journalism. leduff isn't writing essays or stories like those in his books where (in david sedaris' words) "true enough" may be good enough. but he's not writing "news" stories either. a journalist lives by his integrity, particularly when it comes to things like quotations and what role he himself plays in the story. did you see the last season of The Wire? it's never a bad idea to take a closer look at the journalist who is always getting "great quotes." they might be frustrated novelists. So I don't think it's improper to consider Mr. Leduff's history when, as here, Mr. Leduff has inserted himself into the news rather than just reporting it, and questions have arisen as to the timeline of what is essentially a human interest story in today's detroit news. did the hockey players REALLY go on playing, or does that just neatly tie the bow on his whole "frozen indifference" theme? Did the cops not come at all the first time he called, or did they come and just do a poor initial search? all of these details may not be such a big deal on their own, but enough tiny nudges of the truth can turn a mundane story into one that becomes national news (and pulitzer material!). homeless people have died in detroit's buildings before. homeless people die in all sorts of unfortunate places all over the world. the only thing that makes this case any different from those is that charlie leduff and his intrepid prose were there to give us all the gritty details. (Message edited by wood on January 29, 2009) | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1641 Registered: 11-2005 |
Not to mention did anyone think that, at 5 p.m. in the winter, with the sun setting, in a darkened basement of a warehouse without electricity, it might have been hard to see nothing but a pair of shoes? | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 2919 Registered: 01-2004 |
"did the hockey players REALLY go on playing, or does that just neatly tie the bow on his whole "frozen indifference" theme?" THANK YOU THANK YOU There are voices of reason amongst the din here. Refreshing. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1680 Registered: 05-2005 |
it's gone national. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/vid eo/us/2009/01/29/rosenfield.mi .frozen.dead.man.wxyz | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 531 Registered: 08-2008 |
Mauser, it seems that you're pretty certain that the hockey players did not go on playing. For someone to know that without a shadow of a doubt, they would have to have inside information. | ||
Lostlegumes Member Username: Lostlegumes Post Number: 80 Registered: 09-2007 |
Just so we're clear: Slander - spoken Libel - literary (i.e. written) | ||
Penelopetheduck Member Username: Penelopetheduck Post Number: 28 Registered: 09-2006 |
I think putting a picture of someone's dead body in full color on a news website is kind of tacky. I think the way the story was written and its collection of unverifiable assertions is pretty tacky too. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2280 Registered: 08-2007 |
Agreed DowntownLady, Mauser opines about stuff he either doesn't know anything about, or has first hand knowledge and is too much of a putz to come forward. Either way, these hockey playing urbex feinds are a drain society. Want proof? Those cowards have been scrambling the internets to remove their digital fingerprints. Too ashamed to raise their pimply, 40 oz fueled heads. | ||
Navi Member Username: Navi Post Number: 26 Registered: 09-2005 |
Or maybe it is that they don't want publicity like originally stated... | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 2921 Registered: 01-2004 |
quote: quote: | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 2922 Registered: 01-2004 |
Hockey players did not call DetNews, so why are we saying they found the body and then did not call ? That part is made up completely and shouldnt be repeated over and over. It doesnt take inside information not to be a dumbass. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2281 Registered: 08-2007 |
putz. coward. blowhard. bully. If the hockey skate fits... | ||
Navi Member Username: Navi Post Number: 27 Registered: 09-2005 |
What do you want Mauser to do? The dude has been removed from the ice... | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 2925 Registered: 01-2004 |
my god, did somebody spike my tea ? this thread is veering into surreal territory. but enough of conspiracy theories, the point is that this place shouldnt be standing or should never have been left open. and has anyone checked for any other bodies ? no ? Well that building is a crazy death trap. Especially toward the MCS tunnel. I wouldnt be surprised if others met their fate down there someplace. Or for that matter, in the basements of MCS - another labyrinth of death traps. You get tickets in two seconds for parking in Detroit, but you can own one of these hulks and leave them like this. crazytown. | ||
Realitycheck Member Username: Realitycheck Post Number: 302 Registered: 08-2004 |
Wood: Thanks for your latest comments and cordial tone. I get what you're saying more clearly now and dispute none of it. Like Sedaris, LeDuff *is* a slick storyteller, in the positive and negative senses of that phrase. And, significantly, unlike Sedaris he's not an essayist. Questionable journalistic ethics a decade+ ago don't prove he's a fabulist now, but I'll accept that circumstantial evidence as relevant. sorry . . . tough to knock this off! In any event, you never said "liar, liar," just waved a yellow flag. And yes, LostLegumes, I used to know the diff. 'tween spoken and written defamation . . . having endured more newsroom presentations by Butzel Long on that topic than I care to recall -- or can, as was clear. Must've, ahem, lost my bean. Lastly, here's another timely "voice of reason amongst he din" that Mauser and others may appreciate. Going Home blogger Michael Happy, a DetNews staffer, seems to share at least a bit 'o skepticism: quote:Works for me. - - P e a c e | ||
Davemarc Member Username: Davemarc Post Number: 145 Registered: 06-2008 |
I've been past that building many times,to say it was secure is laughable.As someone else said you could almost drive into it.The fact a group of people could get in with hockey gear says something.Its hard for me to belive(as jaded as I am)that you could return to a building knowing about the body,and not say anything.Its sad on many levels,and many people should be held responsible | ||
Goose Member Username: Goose Post Number: 96 Registered: 02-2005 |
so, do they really play "hockey" down there or do they just slide around on their shoes and maybe take a stick and whack a piece of garbage around??? find it hard to believe that you can lace up the skates and skate around with all the garbage in there.... | ||
Davemarc Member Username: Davemarc Post Number: 146 Registered: 06-2008 |
And how would you see? | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 532 Registered: 08-2008 |
quote: No, the issue is that the hockey players allegedly saw the body and did not call the police, not that they didn't call the Detroit News. As for that being made up completely, once again you cannot know for certain. It may be made up, it may not be made up. Only those on the inside know for certain. I think what I'm saying is pretty straightforward. I'm not saying it's not made up, I'm saying that no one but insiders know for sure. No conspiracy theory, I'm just referring to what was reported by the Detroit News. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 2926 Registered: 01-2004 |
Im just saying what was reported by the Free Press - the story wasnt told right the first time. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1648 Registered: 11-2005 |
It reminds me of "The Wire," where the reporter makes up this story about getting this call...  | ||
Luckycar Member Username: Luckycar Post Number: 141 Registered: 02-2007 |
Has anyone found out who the person is?Is there a family?I've been thinking about this all day and forgive me if I don't give a crap about about the reporter,his style,the News and their going with the picture or the hockey guys.I just keep thinking about the poor soul and how they ended up like this. | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 533 Registered: 08-2008 |
quote: Please refer to my previous post. | ||
Thefishwrap Member Username: Thefishwrap Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2008 |
Luckycar: i recall reading that they actually have to wait for things to thaw before any autopsy is completed. that should be done tomorrow, if i remember right. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1218 Registered: 12-2003 |
------------------------------ ------------------------------ -------------------- What wasn't "told right" the first time? He called 911, after some bungling they called back and said they were on it. He went over and saw that the body was still there. He called 911 again Wednesday. Then he went over with DFD guys. He didn't say the cops hadn't been over, he said the body was still there. Re the cops, how hard it is to find an elevator shaft with a body frozen in it? |
