 
Ongowwah
Member
Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 211
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 12:21 pm: |    |
Everyone is still excusing the bums and punks that do the breaking in. Again, where is trespassing on private property legal? Just keep blaming the rich guy....yawnnnnn. |
J_to_the_jeremy
Member
Username: J_to_the_jeremy
Post Number: 168
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 12:40 pm: | |
Ongowwah, you try being homeless in this city and tell me if you don't end up sleeping in a vacant building. |
Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj
Post Number: 755
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 12:47 pm: | |
^^^So that makes it right? |
Jtf1972
Member
Username: Jtf1972
Post Number: 114
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 12:48 pm: | |
Any chance we could secure his address and, rather than litter, simply transfer some of his possessions from one property to another?  |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 2164
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 12:49 pm: | |
It's not like anyone else can't put in the work to get to the same level these guys are at.
It does appear that the drive for money must be that much stronger than the drive for idealism.
We all talk the talk, but not enough people actually do anything. The letter was touching, I don't think it will make Mr. Maroun budge. Although, stranger miracles have happened, I guess. I don't think relying on miracles is very smart though. More action is needed.
(Never an expert at anything, just offering my 2 cents)
(Message edited by Sean_of_Detroit on January 30, 2009) |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 490
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 12:52 pm: | |
Gsgeorge, very good ideas IMHO.
If the Mayor wishes to have a long tenure in office, being tough on these land speculators, trespassers, scrappers, and the rest of these who own ANY building in Detroit, it's his for the taking. The enforcement of maintaining property should rub ALL landowners. If you can't afford to fix up, clean up! Detroit owned properties too.
I propose we allow non violent offenders locked up to work off their sentences by chain-gang cleanup of the highways and city owned properties. |
J_to_the_jeremy
Member
Username: J_to_the_jeremy
Post Number: 169
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 1:13 pm: | |
Rjlj, I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that it's unavoidable. It's not worth anyone's time to blame some people for going in these buildings. It is worth our time to make sure they're damn hard to get into, because that's an easier, more practical solution. |
Ongowwah
Member
Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 220
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 1:28 pm: | |
Warrenite, try chainganging and see the ACLU all over you and that's before the other wacko's get at ya!
J, it's not right, it's illegal, period. Quit excusing it and saying it's the landlord's fault. They don't break into their own buildings, trash them and spray and tag them, it is people engaging in illegal acts doing that. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3693
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 1:28 pm: | |
quote:Everyone is still excusing the bums and punks that do the breaking in. Again, where is trespassing on private property legal? Just keep blaming the rich guy....yawnnnnn.
No... we're blaming the rich guy for not doing anything constructive with his blighted property. He sits on the deed and forces those poor people who have to live there to deal with the effects of what he created. Yawn on that one. |
Ongowwah
Member
Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 221
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 1:32 pm: | |
HE created? HE blighted the neighborhood? HE trashed the buildings? HE ruined the neighborhood? How? |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 9261
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 1:39 pm: | |
You can blame a virus for a cold, but if you walk around in the snow naked you're still a dumbass. |
J_to_the_jeremy
Member
Username: J_to_the_jeremy
Post Number: 170
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 1:40 pm: | |
True story, Johnlodge. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3694
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 1:44 pm: | |
quote:HE created? HE blighted the neighborhood? HE trashed the buildings? HE ruined the neighborhood? How?
Yes, he did. By holding ownership of that property for the past 2 decades, he created the situation. Now you can argue about how/why the city allowed him to do such a thing, but you cannot negotiate his responsibility for the situation. |
Ongowwah
Member
Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 227
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 1:47 pm: | |
He destroyed the entire neighborhood and trucked in the druggies, ho's, and homeless and then trashed his own building, and he did this all just to ruin the value of his investment....rightttt.... |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3695
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 1:51 pm: | |
quote:He destroyed the entire neighborhood and trucked in the druggies, ho's, and homeless and then trashed his own building, and he did this all just to ruin the value of his investment....rightttt....
Uh, who said he ruined the value of his investment? |
Johnnie_sue_bridges
Member
Username: Johnnie_sue_bridges
Post Number: 28
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 1:53 pm: | |
I have a simple solution for Mr. Maroun. Give that building to me, and I will run myself ragged trying to restore the train station. Then I would turn it into the most beautiful homeless shelter the world has ever seen. That may sound far-fetched, but I have prayed this prayer many-a time; and I am certainly not crazy enough to think I could do that alone. God will help Detroit, if we ask Him to help us reach out to each other. It breaks my heart to see so many folks with no place to go, camped out in front of that beautiful building surrounded by razor-wire fencing to keep them out.
Johnnie Sue Bridges |
J_to_the_jeremy
Member
Username: J_to_the_jeremy
Post Number: 171
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 1:54 pm: | |
He purchased a property not as an investment, but to block anyone from gaining a rail tunnel to Canada. He knew it was down the street from the rescue mission. He didn't trash his building, but he apparently doesn't care if others do. There are PLENTY of examples of landlords stopping/preventing vandalism. For an example of a well-kept vacant property, just look across the street at the several storefronts next to Slow's. I know that's not the same scale as MCS, but anyone buying that f'er should know what they're getting into. |
Ongowwah
Member
Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 228
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 2:24 pm: | |
You're missing the point. THE POINT IS people are illegally trespassing whether or not the building is open. The inside is a shambles, if I were illegally squatting I would at least respect the property. IT'S ILLEGAL! Quit blaming the owner. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 2167
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 2:31 pm: | |
Well you have to actually enforce the laws. Just because a law exists, it doesn't mean it's going to magically make everyone obey. Laws were made to be broken. With no foreseen consequence, it might as well not exist. |
Wolverine
Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 569
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 2:31 pm: | |
Nice try, Ongowwah, but that isn't the point. The state of disrepair of these buildings are a threat to public safety whether or not people are entering them. It's still his fault, and oh yeah ILLEGAL.
(Message edited by wolverine on January 30, 2009) |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 9264
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 2:32 pm: | |
The owner is still responsible for his property. Your issues about illegal tresspassing are completely irrelevant to the discussion. HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS PROPERTY. End of story.
If some vandal smashes your windows and spraypaints your house, yes it would be great for him to go to jail if you could catch him. But guess who needs to get their house fixed within a reasonable time before their city starts fining them for violating ordinances? YOU.
Whining to them that the vandal needs to take personal responsibility isn't going to get you out of a ordinance ticket.
Your vandal responsibility argument is a complete non-issue. |
Oldestuff
Member
Username: Oldestuff
Post Number: 115
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 2:40 pm: | |
Some years ago, there was a demo order on the MCS and Moroun came up with a development proposal that he presented to the adjoining neighborhoods at a restaurant in Mexicantown. He had drawings of a revitalized area around the train station, that he proposed turning into a trade center. The proposal was beautiful, but hindsight shows that it was just a tactic to buy time on the demo order, after that came the suggestion about the police headquarters and then sadly enough, he has managed to have to do nothing and without consequence. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 2168
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 2:41 pm: | |
I'm really saying the same thing. In this case, the owner should know that hanging a no trespassing sign with no consequence isn't going to work. Reading the urban explorer sites, it seems that police just give trespassers a slap on the wrist, or a warning. It's all they really can do unless the owner presses charges.
There is no consequence to entering his buildings, and that is his fault. |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 836
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 2:44 pm: | |
Ongowwah, I have to agree with you. People who own abandoned properties outside the City of Detroit do not have to deal with trespassing and vandalism anywhere near the scale that they do in Detroit. Why should property owners in the City of Detroit be penalized with these unnecessary burdens. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 9265
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 2:56 pm: | |
quote:Why should property owners in the City of Detroit be penalized with these unnecessary burdens.
Sure, why should Detroit adhere to the same laws that regulate civilized society everywhere else? Clearly it is special, and doing just fine on its own. Building owners obviously take perfect care of their properties without any threat of ordinance violation as is. |
Mcwalbucksnfitch
Member
Username: Mcwalbucksnfitch
Post Number: 84
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 3:21 pm: | |
Gsgeorge, I know its late in the game here but well said. You have my full support.
On a side note, one of my professors this semester is back in academia for the first time in 7 years. What has she been doing during this time you ask? Working directly for MM, doing his HR work. |
Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj
Post Number: 756
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 3:31 pm: | |
MCS(and other buildings in detroit for that matter) would be in much beter shape if the suburban urban explorers didn't go in it all the time. MCS was in much better shape 5 years ago. How do you propose keeping out the daily groups of people that visit the MCS who discovered that you can get into MCS via blogs and youtube? |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 9266
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 3:46 pm: | |
quote:MCS(and other buildings in detroit for that matter) would be in much beter shape if the suburban urban explorers didn't go in it all the time.
While I'm sure they cause their share of problems, come on... You know damn well that's not where the bulk of damage came from. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3696
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 3:52 pm: | |
quote:Why should property owners in the City of Detroit be penalized with these unnecessary burdens.
That has to be the most absurd thing you have said on this forum.
quote:You're missing the point. THE POINT IS people are illegally trespassing whether or not the building is open. The inside is a shambles, if I were illegally squatting I would at least respect the property. IT'S ILLEGAL! Quit blaming the owner.
First, you don't know what you would do if you were forced to squat illegally for your survival, so don't try to project your values onto someone elses situation. Second, I got your point but it is irrelevant, trespassing is illegal and so what? If someone trips on my uneven walkway while coming to my door guess who is liable? Me. Whether or not that person was a wanted visitor. You are responsible for properly securing your property. You are responsible for ensuring that your property does not become a public nuisance. And the fact that he has more than enough means to ensure that his property isn't a nuisance to the public just makes this situation that much more ridiculous. |
Jtf1972
Member
Username: Jtf1972
Post Number: 115
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 4:00 pm: | |
Marounpays a security guard to run people off from a city park, but will do nothing to protect or improve his own proporties.
It is time the city starts imposing HUGE fines on the owners of these properties. Annual fines of 5% of the assessed value sounds fair. |