 
Wolverine
Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 591
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 3:02 pm: |    |
Annoyance? I'd say most of the people that go inside are only an annoyance to Mr Moroun. Yes, I hate the scrappers, taggers, and vandals that have destroyed these buildings, but I think the people who have become the scapegoat of the problem have nothing to do with why the buildings are the way they are.
Alot of them do it out of interest in architecture or the fact that these buildings are interesting subjects none-the-less. It's a shame they are trespassing to compose their work. But if they left without touching anything but the floor, I don't see what the big deal is....and touching the floor is the only thing they have to do. No doors have to be opened, no gates have to be climbed. These are "walk-in ready" structures. Do you honestly think kids from the suburbs have the will to knock down a 10' x 12' foot wall to get into a building, or was it knocked down by a 45 year old individual who was a bit more desperate for copper contents inside?
Do you realize what website you are on Detroitchef? There are some photos flashing by on the left of a vacant building. |
Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj
Post Number: 779
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 3:15 pm: | |
I know of suburban urban explorers who have knocked down a 10' x 12' foot wall or similar to get into a building and yes, some of those were kids and some were looser 45 year old adults. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2978
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 3:24 pm: | |
Now wait just a minute, exactly how "loose" was this 45 year old ? |
Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj
Post Number: 780
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 3:33 pm: | |
pretty damn loose |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 5757
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 3:45 pm: | |
Claim love of architecture all you want but that holds no weight. The simple fact of the matter is that we live in a society where there are laws in place and people should respect those laws and the property/neighborhood of others. The simple fact of the matter is that there are many people to blame
1. The slumlords are at fault for the condition of their property
2. The worthless fucks that justify breaking into or even entering a building that is not their own. Justify it all you want but it is illegal
3. People that do not maintain their own property, etc.
Taggers, urban explorers, etc like to justify their actions even though they are breaking the law. As we very well know, many of these taggers/urban explorers don’t live in the neighborhoods they tag or explore. While it is not justifiable to do no matter where you live at least they have the convenience to break the law in Detroit then go somewhere else and bitch about the conditions of the city.
As far as I’m concerned anyone found breaking or entering a building that is not theirs or tagging/destroying a building that is not theirs should be shot on sight. Knock off a few of the law breaking, worthless fucks and w would see a quick decline in this type of behavior. Blame is all around but if one person is at fault it doesn’t justify the actions of others to do what they will with property that is not theirs.
I think that we should populate a commonly ‘explored’ or ‘tagged’ building with a pack of hungry, rabid pit bulls to welcome the next group that want to enter a property that is not theirs. In the same vein the city should be laying absurd fines on people that do not maintain their property whether it be Maroun, Higgins or someone that owns a 5,000 home in the city. |
Hood2643
Member
Username: Hood2643
Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 5:07 pm: | |
JT1,
why do you think all explorers are "from the suburbs"? and who gives a shit if they are! People in this city talk about how people never come downtown, but bitch when they see someone from the "suburbs" come down. how dare anyone from the suburbs come down for anything besides a red wing game!!! I know a lot of people who live in the city and explore in the city. I also know people who only came to the city to explore and now love this city and live in it. Also, what makes someone a "worthless fuck"? because they want to go check out a giant abandoned building? people should be "Shot on site" for entering a abandoned building!!!
Have you NEVER broken a law? Ever "roll" through a stop sign on an empty street at 4am, ever go 1mph over the speed limit? who do you think you are???
I have been reading this site for years but just signed up because of you and the rest of the self rightist people on here. i don't care if you have lived in Detroit for your whole life, a week, are from the "burbs", have 5k post on here, or know everyone who goes out on Thursday for the detroityes meet up... you need to rethink your thoughts. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 5758
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 5:54 pm: | |
Hood - Last I checked the term 'many' is very different than 'all'. This may help: dictionary.com.
As for the rest
quote:and who gives a shit if they are!
My point is that people that are taggers/explorers are scumbags. It is, in my opinion, worse when you come from somewhere else to destroy/break the law in other people's neighborhoods. We always hear about how horrible it is when Detroiters are arrested for crimes in other cities. Same thing. Should the punishment be different? Absolutely not.
quote:People in this city talk about how people never come downtown, but bitch when they see someone from the "suburbs" come down.
I love to see people come to the city from the burbs as long as they are not coming here with the sole intent of breaking the law. I would hope that differentiation is pretty easy to understand. Going to Capers for a steak? Great. Coming to a Tigers game? wonderful. Stopping in to visit a friend? Terrific. Coming with the intent to break a law because it is only Detroit? I have issues with you.
quote:how dare anyone from the suburbs come down for anything besides a red wing game!!!
See above statement.
quote: know a lot of people who live in the city and explore in the city.
No doubt. Get back to me when you look up the words 'all' and 'many'. It may be pretty eye opening to you.
quote:I also know people who only came to the city to explore and now love this city and live in it.
If we could get rid of all explorers and taggers and risk the few people that move here because of that then so be it. I would see that as a net positive for the city.
quote:Also, what makes someone a "worthless fuck"? because they want to go check out a giant abandoned building? people should be "Shot on site" for entering a abandoned building!!!
I believe people that believe they have the right to enter any building they choose and justify it are worthless fucks. More than likely they aren't a net positive to society based upon their total disregard for property and law.
quote:people should be "Shot on site" for entering a abandoned building!!!
Extemism in my statement? Of course. I however have little to no respect for people that jusity their actions with the excuses 'explorers' use. Are there varying levels in what 'explorers' do? Absolutely.
quote:Have you NEVER broken a law? Ever "roll" through a stop sign on an empty street at 4am, ever go 1mph over the speed limit? who do you think you are???
Yes, I have broken laws and never used bs excuses to justify it. If I roll through a stop sign I certainly wouldn't justify it by proclaiming that nobody was coming so I was justified. The action is one thing. the justification of the action is another. I think I am somebody that would expect all people to have some level of respect for othe rpeople's property and courtesy to others who may live in the area. Even if the landlords don't maintain the proerty is not a justification.
quote:I have been reading this site for years but just signed up because of you and the rest of the self rightist people on here.
Sorry if my expectation that people follow the law and respect property that is not your is 'self righteous'. If you do find that self righteous then odds are you have no respect for the property of others or the laws that are in place. if that is the case your opinion means absolutely nothing to me. Keep justifying illegal behavior.
quote:you need to rethink your thoughts.
I need to rethink me expectation that people
1. Follow the law
2. Respect property that isn't theirs
3. Don't use bs justifications to illegaly enter other people's buildings
4. Understand the difference between all and many.
I think you need to first think before telling others to re-think. So what building will you be breaking into or illegally entering next? What wonderful justification will you use to approve of your scum bag actions?
Forgive me if I don't shed a tear if one of the floors collapses on you. Forgive me if I don't feel bad when your parents are on TV saying how the landlord should be sued and you had never done anything wrong. Forgive me if I expect you to follow the law, even if the landlord chooses not to.
My apologies for the spelling errors. i don't feel like fixing them. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2979
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 5:55 pm: | |
Well its official, Johnny Rockets died of too much coke.
jt1 - you are downright puritanical, doing no wrong from your ivory tower - and casting judgment on all who dwell below you. You must have been potty trained in like, ten minutes. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 5759
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:00 pm: | |
quote:jt1 - you are downright puritanical, doing no wrong from your ivory tower - and casting judgment on all who dwell below you. You must have been potty trained in like, ten minutes.
Absolutely not. I have done a fair number of things wrong and I will admit it. The times I got caught I accepted responsibility and paid the price. I was wrong and should have paid for my actions.
That is the difference between people that take responsibility for their actions and those that find justifications for their actions. Taggers and 'explorers' are very much into jsutifying or blaming someone else for their behavior. Let's see some of the classics:
1. Well if the landlord leaves his building that way it is his fault.
2. If the city cared it wouldn't look like this and I wouldn't tag buildings.
3. We only tag abandoned buildings.
4. I'm not breaking anything when I illegally enter the buildings
5. Well teh building was already open so I'm just walking in.
Should I go on? Just once I would like to hear a tagger or 'explorer' admit that they are knowingly break the law and just don't feel that the laws apply to them. Are you willing to admit that? |
Hood2643
Member
Username: Hood2643
Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:16 pm: | |
*teh???
sorry in a quick response i misspelled a word. looks like even someone as god like as you yourself can make a grammatical error.
Also, the laws dont apply to me... Im above the law. and just an FYI, i have broken the law by entering >6 buildings within 100yds of my place downtown. Thanks for reminding me of how much i like exploring. I think I'm going to check some more tonight |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2980
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:22 pm: | |
well the didactic nature of jt1s preaching can get pretty exhausting, and it would seem that the primary concern is to be the one on the holier-than-thou soap box.
this simplistic approach can be applied to anything and turned on anyone. thats why its so weak when employed time and time again. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 5760
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:24 pm: | |
quote:sorry in a quick response i misspelled a word. looks like even someone as god like as you yourself can make a grammatical error.
Nope, I don't profess to be god like nor do I proof what I have posted.
quote:Also, the laws dont apply to me... Im above the law. and just an FYI, i have broken the law by entering >6 buildings within 100yds of my place downtown. Thanks for reminding me of how much i like exploring. I think I'm going to check some more tonight
Good, I hope to hear of a ceilning caving in on you and hospitalizing you. I'll be sure to laugh as your mom sobs on TV stated how it is the fault of the building owners for hurting her poor, precious child. I figure if you take such pride in breaking the law your parents certainly wouldn't be the type to hold you accountable. I'm sure it would be somebody else's fault.
Here's to hoping that you get injured exploring tonight. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 5761
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:29 pm: | |
quote:well the didactic nature of jt1s preaching can get pretty exhausting, and it would seem that the primary concern is to be the one on the holier-than-thou soap box.
Nope, just the one that expects to treat other people's properties and the laws with a little bit of respect. i know you struggle with that concept.
quote:this simplistic approach can be applied to anything and turned on anyone. thats why its so weak when employed time and time again.
Yes, it is weal expecting people to not break into buidlings or spray paint other people's property.
The offer still stands: List your address and I will be happy to come spray paint your house. Funny how I get no takers from people that justify those actions. Are people possibly a little hypocritical when it comes to their own property?
I'll even let you pick the option of me 'exploring' your home or tagging it. Your choice. Oh wait, Mauser wouldn't like that. His neighborhood shouldn't be treated like that. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2982
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:31 pm: | |
Here's to wishing for some Old Testament justice on people who offend the Great Moral Compass. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 5762
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:35 pm: | |
So I take it that your home is too good to be tagged? If we are make our own judgements with no respect to the law then I will just assume that I have the right to tag your home.
I see as opposed to acknowledging your hypocritical behavior you would prefer to make it about me.
I'm an asshole, no bones about it so let's discuss why your house shouldn't be tagged or 'explored'. |
Hood2643
Member
Username: Hood2643
Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:39 pm: | |
hahaha!!! you are the same person who yells at kids in a parking lot for skateboarding! just an FYI, I take fault for whatever I do. Also this "scum" here has a masters degree, skateboards on the Riverwalk(law breaker!!!), explores buildings, has season tickets to the tigers, participates in illegal alley cat bike races and lives in your neighborhood.
As far as my parents go... You are right, my parents are such careless people, can you believe they support my actions. don't be made at mine because you still live with yours! haha. im done. I have friends and they want to go out. enjoy your "here's to" by yourself. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2983
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:45 pm: | |
Wishing physical harm or death on people just shows a very mean minded individual who has a personal issue and an axe to grind. It does not display defensible logic. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 5763
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:46 pm: | |
quote:hahaha!!! you are the same person who yells at kids in a parking lot for skateboarding!
not if they aren't breaking anything or destroying property.
quote:just an FYI, I take fault for whatever I do.
Should I assume you mean you take responsibility? Funny how you messed that up.
quote:Also this "scum" here has a masters degree,
Good for you. Of course behavior and education don't always coorelate. I know some highly educated people that wouldn't help a dying person and some uneducated people that would give you their last nickel. no coorelation but an accomplishment all the same.
quote:skateboards on the Riverwalk(law breaker!!!), explores buildings, has season tickets to the tigers, participates in illegal alley cat bike races and lives in your neighborhood.
Your point is?
quote:As far as my parents go... You are right, my parents are such careless people, can you believe they support my actions. don't be made at mine because you still live with yours! haha. im done. I have friends and they want to go out. enjoy your "here's to" by yourself.
When all else fails stray from the conversation and make it about the individual, not the topic at hand.
So how much will you sue for when you get hurt in one of the buildings you are exploring? |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 5764
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:49 pm: | |
quote:Wishing physical harm or death on people just shows a very mean minded individual who has a personal issue and an axe to grind. It does not display defensible logic.
I'll give you that and my comments may be over the top. Just trying to get my point through.
When can I stop by to tag your home. Taht won't cause any physical pain just my freedom of expression.
Hell, for that matter, can I steal your pictures for my own use? Can I pass them off as my own and sell them. If you have no concern for property laws then I certainly shoudl be free to use your pictures at my discretion.
Funny that you copyright all of your pictures. Reproducing pictures is bad. Breaking into or tagging buidlings is good. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2984
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:55 pm: | |
jt1 obviously has an intense fetish for the petty criminal - as he is completely unconcerned with the crack dealers the flood the streets with the drug that killed Johnny Rockets. A bit of reverse moral relativism to defend a slumlord billionaire over some trespassers - and a stylized argument that can morph and hijack any thread into jt1s favorite bitch rants. Tired old schtick. |
Navi
Member
Username: Navi
Post Number: 41
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 6:55 pm: | |
1 - Who here is talking about spraypainting/tagging? The funniest thing is most taggers are amused by how much you get your panties in a bunch about this.
2 - You hope someone who enters a building falls through a floor for your amusement? So I can hope you get hit by a big rig while jaywalking?
3 - Often when I hear about people getting caught, other people who go into buildings say, "Well, it comes with the territory."
I've found no one I know bitching because the building was wide open or because it's in the ghetto.
4 - Your neighborhood argument is ridiculous. I know plenty of people who have explored things within 5 minutes of their house. I know a guy who checked out the house next to his when it became abandoned. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2985
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:07 pm: | |
Hey Navi - have you ever seen that "detroityes" tag in Packard ? The one thats signed "Jt1" under it ? HAHAHAHA ! Fuckin hilarious.
Do you have pix of that >? |
Davemarc
Member
Username: Davemarc
Post Number: 165
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:21 pm: | |
When you go in you assume a risk,If you get caught you assume a risk.Its no diffrent than speeding.People choose which laws to obey,its wrong,but it happens every day. |
Baselinepunk
Member
Username: Baselinepunk
Post Number: 118
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:30 pm: | |
"Oh, and just last Saturday afternoon, I saw four twenty-somethings park on 17th and walk right into the MCS through the gaping hole Gravity mentioned above."
Musta been all those hip urban explorers we hear so much about. ;)
""It's terrible. Just terrible what happened. People keep breaking into my buildings no matter what we do," said Manuel "Matty" Moroun"".
I've got a fiver that sez this douche claims this shit in public and settles with the relatives.
Remember, as part of a settlement you (as the sued) can realize a give and take: Give money to the parties suing you (at a less cost to you than if you went to court), and then ... take the ability of those person who sued you to speak out about you and the case in any public forum.
Put simply -- as the "sued" you pay (at a cheaper cost) shut up money. Then you have the ability to go on any mainstream media and play the martyr and the suckers in the general citizenry will "sympathize". |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2986
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:44 pm: | |
"I've got a fiver that sez this douche claims this shit in public and settles with the relatives. "
agreed. |
Navi
Member
Username: Navi
Post Number: 42
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 8:17 pm: | |
If I was in the area I would head to the Pack and take a picture of said DetroitYes! tag with JT1 underneath it |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2987
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 8:20 pm: | |
next time out for sure, thats the destination
lol |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 2364
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 8:21 pm: | |
JT1, don't be bothered by those fools. Once they move out of their step-dad's basement and qork of a living, they may actually gain some resept for other people.
It can be assumed their parents never taught them to respect other people, let alone themselves, so they see no problem in pissing into everyone's soup.
Mauser, it's silly to copyrite that crappy photography of yours; who'd steal it, some taste-free moron? You got a problem with morons? Isn't that a little self-hatred? |
Wolverine
Member
Username: Wolverine
Post Number: 592
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 8:23 pm: | |
Jt1, your initial post on this page was a response to mine. I don't disagree with you that urban exploration is illegal. But I think the people who go in and take only pictures can have a clear conscience. The purpose of my post was to separate certain explorers from the vandals and scrappers. Regardless, it's all illegal and you are right about that. I think many of them realize they could get fined if caught, and are more than willing to admit fault. If that is the case, they are on your level. Just as innocent or guilty as you.
Just don't care. You can't do anything about the train station or warehouse. If it's a building on your street, then call the police. Doubt they'll show up, but maybe they'll get arrested and you will have sent a message. I'm assuming you don't own any vacant property so it's nothing you should worry about. From what I've seen on websites, urban explorers tend to stay away from active properties. In fact, it seems like the train station and a couple of vacant factories is all they care about. It's Mr. Moroun who should be making the point. He's quite wealthy, I'm sure he could afford a guard to patrol both of those properties. Why not suggest this instead of being irrational. I mean shooting someone? Really, trespassing in an abandoned building not the worst of crimes. There are bigger fish to fry out there. |
Mauser765
Member
Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 2988
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 8:39 pm: | |
Wolverine - agreed. |