  Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 2070 Registered: 02-2006 |
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc /200903/meltdown-geography/ quote: | ||
Daddeeo Member Username: Daddeeo Post Number: 463 Registered: 09-2008 |
And where's Waldo? Callie? etc. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1807 Registered: 12-2006 |
Thanks, Focus. That was a fascinating article, well-written and thought provoking. I recommend it to all DYers. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3783 Registered: 04-2006 |
I haven't finished reading yet. It was food for thought, but I found many things wrong with his argument thus far. Detroit isn't a good example of a city that will no longer exist because of this economic crisis. Detroit is as strategically positioned as nearly any city in this country. There is a big difference between the locations of Pittsburgh or Cleveland, and that of Detroit. Canada is the largest trading partner of the U.S. That will not change any time soon. Detroit is the busiest border crossing between the two countries. That will also not change any time soon. So Detroit will not cease to exist... anytime soon. Furthermore, if you look at all of the cities that have displaced Detroit on the scale of largest cities, you'll see that Detroit was knocked out of the top 10 solely by growth in the Sun Belt. Houston, Phoenix, Dallas, San Diego, San Jose, San Antonia (notice a trend) are all cities that displaced Detroit from the top 10 list. With the exception of San Jose, these cities will likely never be part of these creative hubs that he envisions will dominate the global economy of the future. Under his argument, their geographies are working as much against them as it has been working for them over the past 30 years. Detroit may or may not become a hub itself, but it is very strategically located between two cities with great probability of becoming that, Chicago and Toronto. | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 146 Registered: 11-2008 |
Quote: ...San Antonio (notice a trend) are all cities that displaced Detroit from the top 10 list. With the exception of San Jose, these cities will likely never be part of these creative hubs that he envisions will dominate the global economy of the future. Being a San Antonio native & still going there for reserve duty, I feel I can give an educated statement on it. The city depends heavily on tourism & still, to a certain extent, the military. The Alamo, Riverwalk, Sea World & Fiesta Texas just to name a few attractions. It still has what amounts to two Air Force bases, one Army post & a large military retiree population. Two bases closed down some years ago & were converted to civilian use. The one major foray into manufacturing, assembling Toyota Tundras, well, you can figure that one out. Not long ago, AT&T moved its HQ to Dallas. Overall the city has little to no natural resources to depend on & its people are not that well educated. Its designation as the "fattest city in America" is well deserved. It does have the UT Health Science Center, which enjoys a good reputation nationwide. When Kelly AFB shut down, thousands of civil service jobs were lost overnight, a good number of them skilled positions. While not on the same scale, it occurred at Brooks AFB as well. It will always be a tourist destination so it continues to build off of that. The locals, instead of traveling to the coast or out of state during rough economic times, will still go to the amusement parks. I don't see San Antonio growing because of any true business climate or entrepreneurial spirit, but due to a large native population that never leaves(even in the toughest of times) & retirees moving in by the thousands each year. It equates to a population that never seems to dwindle. | ||
Cooper Member Username: Cooper Post Number: 56 Registered: 02-2008 |
I just blogged about this last week <http://thinkdetroit.blogspot.c om/>. Florida is thought-provoking but I regard him with a good deal of skepticism. I just can't trust anyone who sells themselves so hard, and Florida pushes the "creative class" notion with the zeal of an advertising executive . His website has ads for Vespas! <http://creativeclass.com/> On Detroit, I find him inconsistent. A few months ago he was in town with a positive message on revitalization. Now here's what he has to say in the article: quote: I'm not saying it's not true -- that seems to be the current trajectory across much of town -- I just take the messenger with a grain of salt. | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 506 Registered: 11-2007 |
Florida has a particular view of what makes economies flourish--large concentrations of educated, "creative", people. It is a model with large positive feedbacks--attractive areas attract more of the relevant people, which makes them more attractive. He is incapable of predicting that an area will turn around for that very reason. That said, his short-term forecast is almost certainly correct--Detroit (both city and region) are going to be shrinking. A lot. Figuring out how to provide services and prevent blight is a big problem already, and it is going to be bigger. I think a lot of the area's governments are still in denial about this though, and it makes them act stupid. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3786 Registered: 04-2006 |
^I'm skeptical of whether the Detroit area will see a big loss in population soon. I don't think Detroit (city or suburb) will be shrinking at a higher pace than it has in recent past. There just isn't anywhere for people to go right now. If anything, the Detroit area might regain some of the people who left in search of opportunities in other places but couldn't find anything. Detroit is no longer a place with a large migrant population like New York or Dubai. Dubai especially, since the population there is something like 90% non-native, but now that the economy has crashed people are fleeing it like crazy | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 2788 Registered: 10-2003 |
God I can't stand Richard Florida. What a hack of useless info! | ||
Themax Member Username: Themax Post Number: 831 Registered: 09-2005 |
Goat: Are you just depressed by his article? I noticed you called his info useless but not inaccurate. "Well-educated professionals and creative workers who live together in dense ecosystems, interacting directly, generate ideas and turn them into products and services faster than talented people in other places can." Detroit does have Wayne State and isn't there a development authority? Someone should try to capture some of those grads with internships or research grants. Doesn't WSU have an engineering department? I wonder if anyone has done a recent study on what businesses need to thrive in Detroit besides the obvious security issues. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1813 Registered: 12-2006 |
"I wonder if anyone has done a recent study on what businesses need to thrive in Detroit besides the obvious security issues." Any reason to be there in the first place. Businesses aren't charities; they don't move into a place because you'd like them to be there. Businesses go where they can find the employees they need and where they can connect to the customers they need, primarily. Detroit, and here I'm referring to the whole region, isn't on most companies' radar screens. | ||
Themax Member Username: Themax Post Number: 832 Registered: 09-2005 |
What I concluded from the article is that Detroit could take some lessons from Pittsburgh which lost its major employer and half its population and appears to be on the upswing. All I have read about Detroit is how difficult it is to get a business going here. And what is the Development Authority doing? | ||
Detroitchef Member Username: Detroitchef Post Number: 107 Registered: 09-2008 |
The DDA? It's doing what is usually does... navel gazing, graft, extortion, a lot of useless rhetoric and occasionally some pie-in-the-sky dreaming. I don't think it's the denial making the local government hacks act stupid... in Detroit's case I think some of them are just stupid. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 571 Registered: 06-2004 |
I had this sudden realization. The playground cities -- NY,SF, Chicago --have these amazing downtowns and loads of affluent single people that drive them. They offer an incredible lifestyle and represent huge concentrations of wealth. I'm wondering if the "crash" is going to spell the end of that way of life. These cities are not about the poor, or kids or the middle class. They're about people with lots of money. That's what makes them pretty and sexy. But if that monied class is going to get gored, I think those cities will be in major trouble quickly. New York will obviously be the first test case. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4403 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: They also have loads of just-out-of-college, low-earning 20-somethings. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 2075 Registered: 02-2006 |
New York will be an interesting case, because of just HOW wealthy a lot of people got, and the ways in which they obtained that wealth. A lot of the money in New York comes from people employed in the very industries that are tanking right now. This is already having a marked effect on both rents and real estate prices in the city (though dramatically less than elsewhere in the country, because demand is still very strong comparatively). But, it doesn't take a ridiculously high-paying job to support the life you see these "affluent singles" living. I would suspect that, at least in Chicago, the average income of the group you might consider affluent singles would be somewhere between $30,000 and $40,000 a year. When you're living two- or three-up in an apartment with a bunch of other recent college grads, it doesn't take a huge salary to appear to be living the high life. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3792 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: There are already lots of poor people, kids and middle class people in NYC. This recession will almost certainly pull property values and rents back into reality in NYC, but it's not going to rearrange the chairs on the deck, so to speak. Suburban Detroit is in a lot more in danger of becoming extinct than NYC. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 2791 Registered: 10-2003 |
Themax, he sells himself like a used car salesman. His onfo is nothing new. Get educated people to live and congregate and things will flourish. Well no shit Sherlock (Florida)! That isn't something new and ground-breaking. As for the "creative" class. What happens when the majority try and become just that? Who buys our "thinking"? No tangible goods to buy or sell it sounds like the hocus pocus of Wall Street where wealth is only created on paper but not as a tangible good. He isn't saying anything new and therefore I ignore him. | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 352 Registered: 10-2003 |
DDA - don't forget utilizing taxpayer money to demolish functionally "obsolete" urban fabric for functionally unfunctioning development parcels. detroit likes to be more efficient by dropping the extra "n" to spell it the department of city planing. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1819 Registered: 12-2006 |
Wow, Detour, that's good. It took me a minute. | ||
My2cents Member Username: My2cents Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2003 |
THE LARGEST BODY OF FRESH WATER IN THE U.S. IS PRICELESS. |
