  Bobby08 Member Username: Bobby08 Post Number: 128 Registered: 09-2008 |
With the looming takeover , school closures ,low scores, drop outs, dwindling enrollments,lack of accountability, safety issues, lack of retention, leadership disputes, etc. I dont see how having a school board/ and or system will fix the Det Ed System anytime soon. I'm not pointing the finger at all involed in the school system due to knowing some fine educators in the system, but it scares me to see where the system will be when my son is old enough to attend School or will we even have a DPS? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1242 Registered: 11-2003 |
The future of DPS is that there are more and more alternatives opening up in the form of charter schools in Detroit. This offers an alternative that parents do not have to pay for, and if the school is a failure, it gets the charter pulled, and a new one is opened up. You have two new ones opening up for next year, one attached to the Science Center and one in the former Argonaut Building in New Center with collaboration is CCS. You will see more charters open up if the state can finish arguing about the definition of a Class A school. This status prevents community colleges and ISD from chartering, but once DPS falls below 100,000 (which they have) more can open. The state passed a bill changing the definition of Class A to below I think 60,000, but that did not change it in the School Aid Act so the 100,000 stands at the current moment. | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 680 Registered: 05-2006 |
Bobby08 I share your concern. I am glad my children have finished K-12 because if I was in the situation now where I needed to pick a school I truly wouldn't know what to do. I think if you read some of the threads relating to the school district and read the blogs and editorials in both papers I think you are starting to see a call for deeper mayoral involvement in the schools I personally believe this option is the best hope for DPS surviving. The mayoral candidates are taking the position of "if the voters want the mayor to take over the schools then I would be for it" however you are not hearing the candidates aggressively campaigning to take over the schools for mostly political reasons. I believe charter schools are only part of the answer and a small part at that. The key is having accountability built into the system at all levels from the classroom on up to the board. Having the mayor in control of the schools will force accountability throughout the system since the mayor will be judged by the voters on the success or failure of the schools just like the mayor would be judged on crime or keeping the street lights on etc. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1243 Registered: 11-2003 |
Having the mayor in charge of schools could be a mixed bag. If you have someone who is a crooked as Kwame was, then it would just be another place for political appointees. But if someone like Dave Bing, who has been an advocate of education as a business owner, then I could see it being mildly effective. But the problems with DPS cannot just be attributed to one thing. Yes, there has been fiscal mismanagement, but how do you solve having parents that do not value education as much as others. How to you fix parents not reading to their children at home? If people had a fix for urban schools, don't you think there would be more success in them? Accountability could work, but if you have a culture where education is not valued, what teacher is going to want to be put in that situation? Right now there is no problem getting teachers due to the economy being in the tank, but when it finally improves, how do you convince teachers to be put in an almost no win scenario. There is no easy solution to this issue, but of course all these problems I brought up are no reason to not try. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1811 Registered: 12-2006 |
What the charter schools accomplish, by their very existence, is to break the monopoly. Catholic schools can't be effective in that way because only certain parents can send their children to those (or any other religious) schools. On any sane planet, the existence of charter schools would force DPS to compete. On Earth, they cause DPS to complain endlessly about the charter schools, and not make any attempt to improve. I have long believed that Detroit should have several public school districts, not just one, and then while some of them would certainly fail, you could have a glimmer of hope that some would succeed; and then those areas might start to repopulate, and we'd have a place to start a rebirth. So long as the schools are the rolling train wreck we have before us, Detroit has zero chance of any meaningful renaissance. Mayor takeover? Sure, what the hell; let's try it. It can't possibly get any worse than it already is. | ||
Bobby08 Member Username: Bobby08 Post Number: 129 Registered: 09-2008 |
I'm all for the Mayor controlling the system , Yet,on the other hand I feel the voters should have the main say in who gets to run the district IF he or she is not appointed by the mayor. Hell do we even need a Superentindent? I say no because at the end of the day all fingers point to the boad members (and we could save over 100k at the same time that could be used for the students) The Board members approved the "Sup" and look at how those appointments have turned out in the past 15 years. They should also have more imput from the parents who actually care about the students education and safety. Yes, safety is a main factor in all of this, think of how many school shootings have taken place in the past year. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 2248 Registered: 04-2006 |
PS, Parochial schools are not closed to any one denomination. The Catholic High School I attended was open to all faiths. UDM does not discriminate against non-catholics either (ask my dentist, my lawyer...). It can be cost prohibitive to send your child to these schools though. Charter schools really did a number to the parochial schools as well as the public ones. I don't think there was enough thought about how many extra students would enter the 'public realm' once these were established from the parochial one. By instituting the charter schools parents had a low-cost option to the typical public school and they took it. What ended up happening was an acceleration of the closure of parochial schools and an increase of those students who were supported by the state. Add to the mix the drop in school funding from two fronts: a decrease in the sales tax, and any other school millages in property taxes. The schools are in quite a pickel, particularly in the poorer preforming districts. | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 681 Registered: 05-2006 |
No system is perfect. I would rather deal with one person (mayor) if I am unhappy with the progress of the schools rather than 11 school board members who have different agendas and have the ability to shift blame among the other board members. I do feel that charter schools should offer competition to DPS on a limited basis but I'm afraid if we adopt a wholesale free market concept between DPS and charters you will need to keep transfering your kids from school to school due to overcrowding (the good ones) or closing (the bad ones). This is not like changing your TV service from Comcast to Direct TV. The effects of moving your kid from school to school can be negative in terms of education as well as social. I wouldn't worry too much about any of the candidates for mayor taking over the schools if they should be elected. The situation with KK is the exception and not the rule when it comes corruption in the mayors office. | ||
Queenybee07 Member Username: Queenybee07 Post Number: 2 Registered: 02-2009 |
The problems starts at home. There is no discipline and most of the kids come from single parent home which is primarily the mother. As a single parent I worry everyday about my childs safety. Everyday my son comes home from school telling me about the fights that occurred at his school. The sad part about it is that you have parents who are supposed to be adults going up to schools acting very childish, cursing teachers in front of kids, how do you expect the child to act when he/she sees how the parent(s) act. Not only do they have this problem in DPS but Charter Schools as well. So many things are taking place in these schools that are swept under the rug until a real tragedy happens. How are you going to find a solution, when you can't get rid of the problem? | ||
Bobby08 Member Username: Bobby08 Post Number: 130 Registered: 09-2008 |
+1 Queenybee07, I remember a time when growing up where the teachers were more involved than the parents. Hell, my teachers knew both my parents and had their numbers and never hesitated to call if any problems arose, and they did call because I remember the "pain" I felt from receiving those types of calls. My son is not in school yet but I hear it all the time about how the parents go to the school and clown by fighting the teachers,disturbing the staff etc. My mother works for an elementary school in Gary,Indiana and she's seen more than her fair share of ignorant parents. Mom even has to keep a jar of change in her drawer for the students who show up to school hungry and asking for breakfest because the parents didn't feed them and they were forced to get themselves up along with the younger siblings and were late for school and missed breakfast. Real sad | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 682 Registered: 05-2006 |
The schools like most other public institutions do not exist in a vacuum. They are highly influenced and affected by the society at large. While it is true you have parents that are worst than the kids we still have to find a way to have the institution work for us. All the schools can and should do is educate its students, it cannot dictate what parents should do and what the home environment should be. What the schools can do and we go back to that word accountability is to make sure standards are communicated and understood to parents,students and the community at large and maintained. People will rise to the standards that are set if they see it is to there advantage to do so. A big problem is that standards get shifted to the point where it becomes meaningless. I will always remember this conversation that a parent had with the principal back when some parents were still fighting school uniforms. The parent was ranting about why she had to have her child wear a uniform and didn't think it was fair etc. The principal simply said you don't have to send your child here. | ||
Birdie Member Username: Birdie Post Number: 115 Registered: 04-2007 |
the detroit waldorf school is an amazing option - i went there and if i had kids i would send them there in a heartbeat. i can't recommend it enough. recently, i heard that they've even started charging tuition on a sliding scale so anyone can afford it. | ||
Themax Member Username: Themax Post Number: 830 Registered: 09-2005 |
Does DPS really need such a large school board? And are the members' salaries/perdiems taken into account when the budget is figured? | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 3010 Registered: 01-2004 |
>>How long will Detroit Public Schools be around? Oh, well into next year. But not much longer. | ||
Bobby08 Member Username: Bobby08 Post Number: 131 Registered: 09-2008 |
"the detroit waldorf school is an amazing option - i went there and if i had kids i would send them there in a heartbeat. i can't recommend it enough. recently, i heard that they've even started charging tuition on a sliding scale so anyone can afford it." Really Birdie? I recall reading where the tuition was like 15k a year "Does DPS really need such a large school board? And are the members' salaries/perdiems taken into account when the budget is figured?" Right On!, Take overpaid Calloway for example, I'm still not sure of what she accomplished | ||
Birdie Member Username: Birdie Post Number: 116 Registered: 04-2007 |
bobby08, i just looked at the website to verify and here's the info: normal tuition is around 10k/year. there is a new "sustainable tuition" program designed for parents who can't afford the tuition to offer a lower rate on a sliding scale. the website states that parents who are interested in the school and need reduced tuition should inquire for more information. http://detroitwaldorf.org/forp arents.html it's a pretty cool opportunity. | ||
Daddeeo Member Username: Daddeeo Post Number: 469 Registered: 09-2008 |
Turn out the lights, the party's over. | ||
Waymooreland Member Username: Waymooreland Post Number: 119 Registered: 11-2007 |
Charter schools only seem better because the parents who send their children to them are concerned about the quality of the public schools and seek what they believe is a better option. Whether the education at the school is better not makes no difference. You put all of these kids whose families care and know enough to enroll them in what they believe is a better school, and *POOF!* all of a sudden you have a safer school with a higher graduation rate. Of course, that's not to suggest that the quality of instruction, rigor of curriculum, and behavior management are any better. They could be worse, in fact. Doesn't matter. The end product is only going to be as good as the ingredients you put in, so charter schools have the advantage of being resources only accessed by the informed parents who choose them, not to mention that they do pull some shady "waiting list" tactics and are pretty quick to expel troublemakers, forcing them either to drop out or go to DPS. | ||
Big_baby_jebus Member Username: Big_baby_jebus Post Number: 69 Registered: 09-2008 |
They need to be disbanded. Plain and simple. http://onlyndetroit.com/html/s team/schoolsout.htm | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 2790 Registered: 10-2003 |
The key question is how long will Detroit be around? 10-15% turnout for primaries doesn't bode well for Detroit. If Detroiters don't give a fuck (and it looks like they don't) then why should anyone else? | ||
Trstar Member Username: Trstar Post Number: 39 Registered: 05-2007 |
I"m against Charter Schools because they have the ability to "pick and choose" their students. A Charter school CAN expel students. Plus there is no mandate for them to accommodate special ed students. The Public School system has to take all. The problem with DPS is that its wildly inconsistent. Bates Academy is probably one of the top urban schools in the country. Other schools - FLICS, Chrysler, and a handful of others provide a good to outstanding educational experience. The problem is that these are islands. Other schools are suffering badly. The schools have so so administration and more importantly a parent population that does not stress the value of education. The culture of the parent has to change first. One more bash against Charter Schools - on the whole the education is no better, generally worst, that public schools. Several of these well known charter high schools ACT scores, quite frankly is worst than DPS. The school gives the parent a feel good story about their child. It won't get them in to UM or MSU, but a warm feeling nevertheless. | ||
Waymooreland Member Username: Waymooreland Post Number: 122 Registered: 11-2007 |
Right on, Trstar. The big question is, what can be done to get more parents to value and emphasize education? We can talk endlessly about how to fix schools, but the conversation needs to change to how we can fix families' culture. Here's the big question: everybody on here who graduated from high school or beyond, ask yourself if you did it because your school was great. Really think about it. I would guess that the vast majority finished school because of their intrinsic values, their desire to gain knowledge, pressure from their families, or some combination of those three. That suggests that maybe we're looking for the solution in the wrong place. Seriously, how many kids can tell this story: "My parents were not well-educated and never emphasized education when I was growing up. Most of my peers were from similar backgrounds. However, the teachers and administrators at the schools we attended were so great that most of us learned the importance of education and all excelled and graduated on time." That's a total pipe dream. I think the only way to improve DPS is for for the district to make parental outreach a top priority and keep getting parents involved as much as possible from head start all the way through high school. | ||
River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 354 Registered: 02-2006 |
"I'm all for the Mayor controlling the system , Yet,on the other hand I feel the voters should have the main say in who gets to run the district IF he or she is not appointed by the mayor." ---Posted by Bobby08 Herein lies the problem for Detroit. The voters have elected incompetent thieves and just plain incompetents for decades now. That is why the school system is the embarassment that it is today. The solution is to declare the system bankrupt (which it is - morally, ethicly, financially, and in competency) and begin completely anew in a system controlled by a legal special master who has demonstrated leadership in education. This should, if done in the proper manner, remove politics from the system, end all the contracts, and allow for a rational reconstruction of the system. Don't worry NEA, it won't ever happen in Detroit. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 576 Registered: 06-2004 |
The DPS has enslaved -- enslaved -- two maybe three generations of Detroiters to a lifetime poverty. The sooner the DPS closes forever the better for everybody. If the still viable slivers of Detroit could have their own public school system, you might be able to save at least them. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 577 Registered: 06-2004 |
In re the post above. We can't fix dysfunctional families the cultue. The school district might as well propose sending a manned expedition to Mars. What we can do is have disciplined schools focused on eduction. This means throwing out the innumerable incompetent and lazy teachers protected by seniority and expelling trouble making students, who can meet their fate in prision or the gutter. This will enable a core group of decent kids to possibly get an education. | ||
Detroitfats Member Username: Detroitfats Post Number: 69 Registered: 05-2007 |
Ray, Please describe the process by which incompetent and lazy teachers are protected by seniority. Cite the specific studies and journal articles that back up your claims. Also, could you estimate the percentage of DPS teachers who are lazy and incompetent? If possible, include the sources from which you take your numbers. Seriously, though, your post was hilarious. Deliberately misspelling words and including nonsense "sentences" (We can't fix dysfunctional families the cultue)is a sly, ironic take on the shortcomings of our public school system. Well done! | ||
Bobby08 Member Username: Bobby08 Post Number: 133 Registered: 09-2008 |
In re the post above. We can't fix dysfunctional families the cultue. The school district might as well propose sending a manned expedition to Mars. "What we can do is have disciplined schools focused on eduction. This means throwing out the innumerable incompetent and lazy teachers protected by seniority and expelling trouble making students, who can meet their fate in prision or the gutter. This will enable a core group of decent kids to possibly get an education." People, it's all about Accountability. In the report it found that the teachers never received performance reviews the past few years? Yes, education starts in the home. How can the system implement a program to involve the parents? Yet, will the parents even care. Some wont, some will. Please answer this for me? | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1367 Registered: 06-2006 |
Detroitfats: You are new to teaching in DPS...so I'll cut you some slack. Teachers ARE protected by the union. It is vitrually impossible to get a teacher rated unsat. They might clean up their act of a bit but when the eyes are off of them, they revert back to not doing their job. We have a teacher who falls asleep in class every day. Admin is trying like heck to get him out but they are blocked by the union (the union sites a "medical condition"). Well, that medical condition isn't doing anything to teach the kids and it's a safety issue. We more than a few other teachers who let kids grade papers in English class and take care of their grade book. Kids do nonesense work, turn in anything and get an A. How is that teaching kids? There are no journal articles or specific studies other than the reality of the situation. That reality is seen every day by teachers like me working in buildings like mine. You teach in a bubble. | ||
Detroitfats Member Username: Detroitfats Post Number: 70 Registered: 05-2007 |
DTeach, Thank you for again pointing out my relative lack of experience teaching in DPS (just over five years) and also thank you for the slack. I guess it just stings that, lacking any concrete evidence, it becomes acceptable to deduce that the problem in DPS is lazy and incompetent teachers. Clearly the union representative in your building is corrupt. If you were able to ascertain that there is a teacher using a fake medical excuse in order to sleep in class every day, your union rep should have also figured it out. Perhaps you rep has less medical expertise than you. I hope you are taking all measures to have him/her removed. Your assessment regarding my lack of understanding may be correct. I base my opinion that most DPS teachers are dedicated, hard-working professionals solely on the teachers I have met working in three different Detroit schools, as well as those I have worked with in seminars and workshops. Perhaps when my bubble finally bursts, I too will have a dismal view of those who teach in DPS. | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 702 Registered: 05-2006 |
" We can't fix dysfunctional families the cultue. The school district might as well propose sending a manned expedition to Mars. What we can do is have disciplined schools focused on eduction. This means throwing out the innumerable incompetent and lazy teachers protected by seniority and expelling trouble making students, who can meet their fate in prision or the gutter. This will enable a core group of decent kids to possibly get an education" quote Problem is Ray those students meeting there fate in prison may do so because they made YOU a victim so it would be to our advantage to yes, get them away from students who want to learn but don't throw them away quite yet. Detroifats- I usually use the 80-20 rule with most situations in life, with the 20 in this case being poor teachers(not unsat a much smaller percentage). But because I respect teachers so much I would change it to 95-5. So if you have 5 teachers out of 100 that are bad and you have 5 classes for each with 35 students per class you have a potential of 875 students that are being affected in a negative way during the class day. That is a significant number in a school of lets say 2200. The ability of just one bad teacher (and not all bad teachers can or should get a unsat ranking) to affect students is the reason why the rules re-guarding the procedure to remove a unsat teacher will go a long way to restoring my belief in DPS putting its students first. The union is real quick to say that management and other stakeholders don't put the students first. On this issue the union needs to step us and put the students first | ||
Bobby08 Member Username: Bobby08 Post Number: 136 Registered: 09-2008 |
Individual blame -v- organizational funtion "When an accident happens in an organization, two different approaches are possible to explain its origin and dynamics. The first approach, called individual blame logic, aims at finding the guilty individuals. The second approach, called organizational function logic, aims to identify the organizational factors that favored the occurrence of the event." Never blame the individual, at the end of the days it falls back on the "Powers that be" | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1368 Registered: 06-2006 |
Dfats: I never said that the medical excuse is fake. It is quite real. The problem is that the teacher is doing a disservice to his students. Someone with a med condition such as that should NOT be a teacher. Most teachers are dedicated, as you say. My issue is removing those who aren't. It makes my job tough because I must teach those kids what they were supposed to get in previous years (which puts me behind in teaching them what they are supposed to be getting in my class). It also puts the kids in a spot because they don't know what they should. You seem to think that there are wonderful teachers everywhere. That isn't the case. I see it on a daily basis and I wish that it would be easier to get rid of these teachers who aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing. The same goes for anyone in DPS (school board, CEO, admin, custodial staff, etc). It is nearly impossible to or get rid of a teacher because of the union and the seniority issue. My principal won't get rid of a teacher who is horrible because they would have to get rid of (transfer) teachers who are more dedicated first, because of this seniority rule. Senior teachers can bump teachers with less seniority...that's in our contract. Those senior teachers who don't do their job know this so they just keep on doing what they are doing. | ||
Detroitfats Member Username: Detroitfats Post Number: 71 Registered: 05-2007 |
First/Ten, I completely agree that we need to overhaul the procedure for removing unsat teachers. Unsat teachers should not be released from one school and then allowed to resume their incompetent practices in other Detroit schools. Their employment should be terminated. I feel that the union's responsiblily is to make sure that an instructor slated for dismissal is given a chance to defend him/herself from accusations of incompetence. The union should make certain that there is a fair, timely hearing. I have yet to meet a single teacher or union offical who wants to protect the job of an incompetent teacher. | ||
Detroitfats Member Username: Detroitfats Post Number: 72 Registered: 05-2007 |
D-Teach Not sure where I said there were wonderful teachers everywhere. I do see hard work and dedication in the face of very difficult circumstances every day. My issue is that our students come from the poorest big city in the country. Many arrive in the morning hungry, tired and dirty. Some are forced to move to different homes and/or schools several times a year for various reasons. For a great deal of our students, there is nothing in their daily lives that suggests that an education is the least bit important. Many have never seen an adult so much as read a mazazine, much less a book or a newspaper. Many of my younger students are incredulous to find that some people read for enjoyment. Some are shocked to find out that I expect them to be in class every day. Many have no idea how to work with others or accept differences of opinion. Are there incompetent teachers in our district? Of course. Should we terminate the employment of those who prove they do not have students' best interests as their number one goal? Absolutely. Is teacher imcompetence a leading cause of the failure of the DPS? In my opinion, no. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1824 Registered: 12-2006 |
The teachers are not, in essence, the problem. The way the school system is organized and managed is one half of the problem, and the existence of vast numbers of unconcerned parents/guardians is the other half. We could, if we wanted to, fix half the problem and see what happens. But that would require changing the organization and management, and nobody seems to want to take that on. Like in every school district everywhere, there are many good and some bad teachers. But this is true in all districts, and they don't have the same problems as DPS. | ||
Detroitfats Member Username: Detroitfats Post Number: 73 Registered: 05-2007 |
Prof Scott, I was thinking the same thing. There are lousy teachers even in expensive private schools, but somehow these schools manage to send huge numbers of graduates on to college. What are the first steps we should take to improve our graduation and college entrance rates? | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 706 Registered: 05-2006 |
Agreed Professorscott the teachers are not the problem. Because they are on the front lines many people feel that they are the problem. The same reasoning could be used for the auto industry. Because the assembly line worker is on the front line then it must be there fault. Just like the teachers you have just enough of them gaming the system so people can jump up and say SEE I told you it is THERE fault. The problem is much more systemic and blame and its inherent solutions lie in attacking the problems in many different ways. Thats why in my first post on this thread I restated why the Mayor should take over the district. As you stated the management and organization aspects could immediately be addressed in a timely matter, and the accountablilty issues can be quickly addressed and understood by the voters. | ||
Det_ard Member Username: Det_ard Post Number: 16 Registered: 02-2009 |
It may be possible (10% chance it will happen) to actually fix the admin/teacher/management problem. Unfortunately I put the probability of fixing the parent/student culture/poverty/stability problem at <1%. Won't that doom any changes within DPS to eventual failure? If the vast majority of the students and parents don't give a damn, don't know how to give a damn, and would probably choose not to give a damn if they were capable of it, what's the point? Defeatist, sure. And not likely to be accepted by the teachers on here, which is good. But deep down doesn't it seem more than a bit hopeless? Sorry to be all negative but I think I've been unjustifiably optimistic for too long now. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1825 Registered: 12-2006 |
It isn't possible for all the children to have a chance; there are some things we just can't overcome. But if we can make all possible improvements to the schools, then we can give as many children a chance as possible. Isn't that what the schools ought to be doing? Get rid of the noneducational bureaucracy (just about everyone who doesn't work in a school), close enough schools so we only have as many as we need; fix the schools that remain (I mean physically repair them); keep the textbooks reasonably up to date; give the teachers adequate supplies; provide adequate security. I could think of fifty more such items if I wanted to spend the time, but you get the idea. We can't fix the kids' home lives or make some of the parents give a shit, but at least we can make the schools into safe havens and provide the best education we can. | ||
Detroitfats Member Username: Detroitfats Post Number: 74 Registered: 05-2007 |
Prof Scott, Bull's-eye! | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 707 Registered: 05-2006 |
We must have visionary leadership that understands there are schools that work in urban areas, you even have a few schools such as the Green Dot schools in the heart of LA that are working for its residents. We need to do something soon because I can see in our future a type of Recovery school district set up by the state similar to what Louisiana is doing for schools mostly in the New Orleans area. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1369 Registered: 06-2006 |
Quote from Dfats: Please describe the process by which incompetent and lazy teachers are protected by seniority. I was providing examples. I have been a strong advocate for teachers on this forum (as some folks here can attest...from long ago). I agree that teachers are NOT the entire problem with DPS. I AM, however, tired (really, really tired) of the teachers who don't do their jobs at the expense of kids. It seems like every teacher who is a slacker finds their way to my school (the teachers that have transferred in this year are horrible...they were dismissed/transferred from other schools at the request of their admin). I just wish it were easier to get rid of them altogether. My opinion, as has been from way back when, is to fire everyone and make them reapply for their jobs. In doing so, they must have an up-to-date portfolio, demonstrated extra-curricular involvement with the kids (after school tutorials, volunteering at functions, etc), having taken the current reading class required by the state, have taken recent classes to keep abreast of best practices... | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 509 Registered: 11-2007 |
I am not a teacher, but I do work with kids, and in my opinion it is very difficult to have any kind of functioning group if you don't at least have the possibility of getting rid of the most disruptive ones. One reason private schools get better results is that they can get rid of kids who have a negative influence. Some people on this thread seem to be saying that because the public schools have to take everyone, naturally they do worse. I agree with that, but what that makes me think is that the schools should figure out a way to separate the problem kids, rather than that everyone should suffer. My daughter goes to a school full of overprivileged children. One disruptive child can seriously impair the functioning of her class. I don't see how a classroom with a high percentage of restless and unmotivated kids can accomplish much of anything. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1370 Registered: 06-2006 |
Mw: For a long time the problem kids were housed in what we call Special Ed classes. We can't do that anymore (it's illegal). It would be wonderful if I could eliminate some of the worst behavior problems from my classes (Lord knows I try). This occurs in my 9th grade classes (I don't have many issues with behavior with my seniors). One disruptive kid can throw the entire lesson out the window. I have kids who are continually disruptive on a daily basis (all class period). The only problem is, who would want to teach an entire class of nothing but disruptive kids at 35 kids per class? |
