Discuss Detroit » Archives - March 2009 » Hotel St. Regis « Previous Next »
Top of pageBottom of page

Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 1255
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This reminds me of how the Statler closed.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20090224/B IZ/902240361/1001
Top of pageBottom of page

Rjlj
Member
Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 800
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Soon you will see articles like this for the Book Cadillac and Fort Shelby if Detroit doesn't start bringing more people into town and the COBO expansion deal falls apart.
Top of pageBottom of page

Wordonthestreet
Member
Username: Wordonthestreet

Post Number: 47
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know from personal experience that the St. Regis was poorly run from the begining. The hotel is a dump ran by people that have no experience in opperating a hotel.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitchef
Member
Username: Detroitchef

Post Number: 120
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're never gonna see the Book and the FS go down like this. Apples and oranges baybee. The St Regis was poorly run and privately financed, the Book is a Starwood property and the Fort Shelby is ultimatly a Hilton hotel. Big, deep pockets behind those, lots of other properties to suport a loss leader and lots of people who are experts at what they are doing.

Herb and his 'partners' were poorly funded from the beginning, and when they fired the opening chef Liam Collins (of the Whitney) and then Fadi Achour (GM, formerly of Seldom Blues) out of there and replaced them with Strather flunkies and dopes, the handwriting was on the wall. I'd been burned by Herb on another deal, years ago and knew the moment thay asked me "Hey, we bought the old hotel, you can work with Liam and Fadi and make the reataurant food..." the answer was going to be NO. I knew they'd fuck it up somehow.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bobby08
Member
Username: Bobby08

Post Number: 139
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought it was being turned into Condo's?
Top of pageBottom of page

Bobby08
Member
Username: Bobby08

Post Number: 140
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought it was being turned into Condo's?
Top of pageBottom of page

Crawford
Member
Username: Crawford

Post Number: 491
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The same may eventually happen to the Book and Fort Shelby if the economy does not improve.

There were already too many rooms downtown and they decided to double the number of rooms (courtesy of taxpayer subsidies). Not all can survive.

The hotel companies can remove their names from the hotel at any time. It happens all the time (see the Hotel Ponch).

IMO, if the economy does not recover soon, we will lose the St. Regis, Ponch/Hotel Riverside, Hilton Garden Inn and Athenium Suites within the next 18 months. The Millender Center hotel may go too.

A long-term 1990's Japan-style stagnant economy will threaten even the Book, Fort Shelby and the Mariott.

The casino hotels all lose money, but they won't close unless the casinos close.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 1259
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think you will see the Ponch close, but the rest are doing a good job of getting/bringing in convention business. I see this happening more and more especially if the Cobo expansion/renovation goes through.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitchef
Member
Username: Detroitchef

Post Number: 122
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let me try to follow your little train of thought here Crawford. It's amazing to me that you can even figure out how to turn your monitor on unassisted.

It's all a conspiracy? The infameous and vague 'They' are making all these decisions with your cash, against your expert analysis and are therefore doomed to failure because 'They' are plotting against all of us sheep, and only you can see 'Their' plans for what they are?
Someone likes himself.

Do your homework...Hilton and Starwood are major hotel operators, and competitors to each other. I seriously doubt 'They' made plans to destroy Detroit through messing with the hotel market here. They never would have put their names onto the Book and the Shelby if they didn't calculate to the penny, what was the point they would pull out at and sut it all down. Cost-Benefit ratios dude. It's only dreamers and idiots like Herb Strather, that take on a multi million hotel renovation roject, and get their asses handed back to them because they figured they knew better than the big boys.

Casino hotels may not be profitable at first glance, but the operators wash the loss with profit from other areas. A far cry from a stand alone hotel like the others you mention.

It takes a lot for a chain to pull their name off a property, usually they won't do it because of the negative message it sends other franchisees. But, if the place (like the Ponch) is so ill-run that it's a liability for them to stay, if it's downgrading their Standard of Service and unable to meet the minumum licensing requirements... then the name will come off and the lawsuits begin.

You really can't compare Independent Hotels, Chain Hotels and Casino Hotels, just on the basis of being all hotels. Totally different operating guidelines and modes of profitability.

On an interesting sidenote, Starwood Hotel Group purchased every single ST Regis hotel property on earth in the late 1990's and still operate the line today. With one exception, the Hotel St Regis Detroit, which was such a shithole even back then, that they took a pass on it. But they felt Detroit was viable enough to take on the Book Cadillac project and pay millions for that. It wasn't done wholely with 'taxpayer subsidies' as you allege. The majority of funds came from Starwood.
Top of pageBottom of page

Crawford
Member
Username: Crawford

Post Number: 492
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DetroitChef, are you even responding to me with your ramblings?

Nothing you mention even addresses any of my points.

And basically everything you mention is wrong. Do you even know what Starwood is? They have no involvement in the Book deal. Do you even know how hotels operate?

Starwood could leave tomorrow.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rickinatlanta
Member
Username: Rickinatlanta

Post Number: 262
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Boy was I ever wrong! I incorrectly thought that since Westin is a brand of Starwood that Starwood was involved with the Book...
Top of pageBottom of page

Croweblack
Member
Username: Croweblack

Post Number: 87
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitchef,

I will let crawford handle the majority of all the mistakes and/or ignorance within your post but...

"It takes a lot for a chain to pull their name off a property, usually they won't do it because of the negative message it sends other franchisees."

Franchise agreements are so incredibly one-sided within the hotel business that it is very EASY to pull a flag. Sure, we sign ten year contracts, but there are so many provisions in the contract (performance, service, hell even outside appearance!) that the hotel chain can get rid of a property in about 6 months to a year.

And as far as "the message it sends to other franchisees", hell yeah it sends a message and the message is "follow or quality controls, upgrades color schemes, what you serve for breakfast in the lobby or you are out!"
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitchef
Member
Username: Detroitchef

Post Number: 123
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, is my face red too Rick!

Not only did I work for the St Regis Group and distinctly remember them saying 'You're part of Starwood now' but when I look at my Westin paycheck FROM the Book Caddie, it says Starwood on it as well! BOY WAS I WRONG! Thanks guys, for pointing out that no matter what everyone else knows as a fact, YOU know better!

Damn! I'm glad that we have guys like Crawford and whoever Croweblack is... to let us know that the conspiracy has reached this far and we've both been mistaken all these years! It's so handy, to have random dopes on the Internet be able to correct false assumptions like yours and mine, and all without the benefit of knowing a single thing about the subject!

I mean, Look at the fake website those Starwood crooks put up at http://www.starwoodhotels.com
Man, they even LIE TO US right there and say that they run hotels, and run the St Regis Group AND Westin brands! They even mention the Book Cadillac! I guess that proves me wrong! Silly me, I believed them, even worked for Starwood for seven years and another four for Hilton Hotels Corporate, doing QA's for franchised properties! I bet with all that experience, working for lying companies like them, that Crawford and Crowblack have forgotten more than I will ever know about the hotel business.

(sarcasm mode off)
I still say you two idiots don't know jack about the Hotel market, and that your estimates of 'How Long before Hotel X dies' are not only pretty far off, but the reasoning you bumble through is highly suspect.

St Regis-Detroit is going kaput because of several factors:
1. Herb Strather is a weasel, he roped in a bunch of people with this idea of re-opening the hotel and lost his shirt when he couldn't close the condo side of the project.
2. Amongst the people Herb has as 'co-owners' of the Regis was Rev. Holley, last seen engaging in a little check fraud about town. That tells you what sort of folk are making the decisions over there.
3. After Fadi and the rest of the people who knew WTF they were doing left, the Regis was doomed. They lost the World Hotlels affiliation because they couldn't keep up the QA, hell they couldn't even figure out the MAESTRO computer links for the Reservations. Thats a lot diferent than, say Hilton Hotels getting pissed with the guys at the Southfield Hilton Garden Inn, and telling them 'shape up or we pull the franchise.' I think that property is a Wyndham Garden Inn now. Either way, for Starwood to insist on pulling out of the Book, either downgrading it to another Starwood brand or dumping the property all together, it'd take more than the usual "You forgot to stock the grab and go pantry" ding on a QA.
4. The roperty has changed hands so many times, and flown so many flags, that it was a clusterfuck. After 20 years on never upgrading or re-investing in it, the place was a shithole. I mean, how can you claim to be a 'Boutique Hotel' when the property used to be a Ho-Jo's? Ditto for the Ponch... too many cheap owners, not enough infrastructure work done and screwing the union was dumb.
5. Starwood and Hilton aren't doing any of that in their properties. They're pros, Herb's not.

There's a big difference between an independant and a franchised hotel, boys. You simply can't compare them the same and lump them in the same boat.

Now, you may commence the traditional DYes ad hominum attacks, since I'm sure you'll disagree with the facts and feel the need to attack my personally, rather than try to argue whatever your points were.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa

Post Number: 946
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i agree with you chef; they've offered up exactly 0 facts that would lead me to believe they're closing down at any time. everything is based on personal opinion and pure speculation.

however i must correct you on one point; the st. regis was never a hojo's. the howard johnson's was located down grand, next to the mcdonald's. i believe it was even operating when the st. regis originally opened and possibly when it expanded. the hojo's was briefly turned into a nurse's residence for henry ford hospital, then imploded in the early 90's.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome

Post Number: 2416
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right RSA, that HoJos was also where a nurse was killed by a stray sniper bullet during the riots. It was called the Harlan House, I think.

Chef, man, you certainly are in the know about the dirty business of the restaurant business. In reading your posts these last couple of months I've learned about the behind the scenes happenings at Sweet Georgia Brown, that place out in Southfield and the St. Regis.

You don't mess around, how's it feel to be the Gordon Ramsey of Dyes?

On a side note, did you work for the Franks at the st. Regis in the '80's?
Top of pageBottom of page

Det_ard
Member
Username: Det_ard

Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So were any of you at the St. Regis when it was operated by Rank Management (I believe that was the name, could be wrong, I'm talking 1980's here.) I think they British.

Good service back then as I recall.
Top of pageBottom of page

Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 934
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michael Kahler was the GM. It was a fine, fine hotel then. You could sit on the terrace and order up a Pimm's Cup. Kahler wore an old-fashioned straw hat in the summer. The whole shining place was beautiful to see.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa

Post Number: 947
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i don't think so gnome; that address puts the harlan house at the corner of milwaukee and the service drive. the hojo's was on the corner of grand blvd and third.

here's a video of the implosion: http://www.biggerblast.com/ind ex.php/Videos/Howard-Johnson-H otel-Detroit-MI.html
Top of pageBottom of page

Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa

Post Number: 948
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and here's some more info i was able to dig up:

http://www.highwayhost.org/Mic higan/Detroit/NewCenter/newcen ter1.html

i don't believe it was ever abandoned for a long period of time. like i mentioned above, it was housing for henry ford hospital after it was a hotel. there is more information in the archives if anyone wants to search for it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome

Post Number: 2418
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanks for the correction. Here is an old pstcard of the Harlan House:
harlan house
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem

Post Number: 1912
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit St. Regis Hotel in receivership
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitchef
Member
Username: Detroitchef

Post Number: 129
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone with 1/2 a brain knew the Regis was going down...and it was apparent two owners before Strather that the property was in the crapper. Hell, why do you think Starwood turned down the property themselves originally? When GM was strong and across the street, the hotel was prime location. New Center today? Ghosttown. And the whole idea of people paying 220k for a condo that would 'someday' be built was ludicrious.

It was never a question of "Will the place survive" but rather "How long can they flounder around before hey sink?" That was the point I was trying to make with Crawford and his buddy. Even when my buddies Liam and Fadi were there... I was buying from the same vendors and if you ever want to know about a restaurant or hotels financial status, ask the guys holding their markers. EVERY vendor I know in Detroit would just shake their head and tell me "Dude, at least your bosses pay their bills."

Remember when the drug dealers owned the place? Hookers on the third floor, weed on the second, heroin coming out of the basement...St Regis was the biggest dope house in the neighborhood.

But it takes a special kind of dumb to assume that the problems with the Regis can be extrapolated onto all the other hotels downtown. Different owners, different problems and luckily for them, no Herb Strather or Shirley Johnson to inflame the problems. That was my umbrage with those two...

It's not going to be easy for the other hotels, but I think they are better situated to ride the downturn out and come out stronger in the end. It's gonna really suck if Cobo tanks, the auto show disappears and they lose the SAE convention with the auto show! THEN, you're gonna see a bloodbath.

Gordon Ramsey, I am not. Except I also like to drop f-bombs while working ;) . But I grew up in the City, and I came back here, and this is my home. It's a small-town atmosphere in the fod service and hotel business here, everyone knows everyone else and all their business.

And, Ho Jo's did breifly operate the St Regis property, for about six months in the 1990's. As Did Holiday Inn, Marriot, Wyndham Court and then a string of independant owners, right up to the drug dealing brothers. Once they got put in the slammer, the place sat vacant for a few years until Herb got the bug up his butt. Rank was a british company, and they did a damn fine job.
Top of pageBottom of page

Elevator_fan
Member
Username: Elevator_fan

Post Number: 38
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Starwood didn't go around and buy all the hotels named St. Regis. Rather, they bought the St. Regis Hotel in Manhattan, and turned that name into a brand. They added other hotels to the St. Regis brand, for example the (since demolished) tower of the Century Plaza Hotel in L.A. There was not a pre-existing St. Regis hotel chain.

That being said, I imagine Starwood would have talked to the Detroit St. Regis Hotel about a possible purchase, much like Wyndham bought the long-independent Wyndham Hotel in Manhattan, just to solidify the name with hotels of matching quality. Of course, the Detroit St. Regis, circa post 1990, would not have fit the image.

The St. Regis was a Holiday Inn Express for a short while, when it was owned by Anthony Barclae.

(Message edited by Elevator_Fan on February 26, 2009)

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.