  Carman Member Username: Carman Post Number: 12 Registered: 08-2008 |
Freeman Hendrix and his Lt. Gaddis sure were talking some anti-suburban, anti-regional stuff yesterday. The age old cry of the suburbs wanting to take over. The Cobo deal is the latest in this saga according to them. In the past, they have never played this card, but it is clear how to get votes in Detroit. Didn't think they would go there, but success in the Detroit political arena is almost guaranteed when going divisive. | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 676 Registered: 03-2005 |
Not as pathetic as this: Coleman A. Young endorses his son for Detroit mayor, mom says | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9479 Registered: 10-2003 |
Laugh/Cry. | ||
Crumbled_pavement Member Username: Crumbled_pavement Post Number: 711 Registered: 08-2007 |
lol @ Diehard. That's classic! | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5340 Registered: 06-2004 |
Gaddis knows how to play the game - she's not anti-suburban as much as she is pro-black (anti-white) power. She still lives in Southfield as far as I know. | ||
Marianewtothed Member Username: Marianewtothed Post Number: 68 Registered: 05-2007 |
Did anyone catch Mildred on FlashPoint this past Sunday...I'm still confused as to why she is a fixed mouthpiece on Chan. 2 & 4...She has a radio show, let that be her soapbox. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3822 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: Therein lies your problem. You base your perception of Detroit on what you read at this forum. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3717 Registered: 06-2008 |
Having grown up in the 'burbs, I was never aware that Detroiters had such an inferiority complex with respect to the suburbs until I started reading this forum a few years ago. It was pretty shocking at them time to see some of the stuff that would get posted about my hometown of Livonia, which was was pretty nice place to grow up. But I'm used to it now and nothing I see posted here really surprises me anymore, be it about either Detroit or the 'burbs. It has always struck me as a bit odd though how the people in Detroit appear to think there is some kind of war raging between them and the suburbs, but how nobody north of Eight or west of Tele really pays any attention to them or be aware of the animosity thrown their way. I dunno. I guess when you grow up in the 'burbs, Detroit doesn't really show up on your radar much. Anyway, just an observation. | ||
Carman Member Username: Carman Post Number: 13 Registered: 08-2008 |
To Detroiters: Cobo, Water Dept., Tunnel, DIA, The Zoo, the Schools etc... The suburbs do not want ownership of these things. Rather, they want to see them run properly, profitably and with world class. If the city does that, I assure you would never hear a word about these "jewels" from the burbs. | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 178 Registered: 11-2008 |
I'd like to see if it'll set a precedent such as "American Revolution Hero, Founding Father and first U.S. President George Washington endorses __________ for President." I wouldn't be surprised if "The Onion" hasn't already done a take on this angle. | ||
Psewick Member Username: Psewick Post Number: 111 Registered: 03-2006 |
Thejesus: Only someone who is part of the conspiracy would try to convince people that there is no conspiracy!! | ||
Brg Member Username: Brg Post Number: 22 Registered: 02-2009 |
"Having grown up in the 'burbs, I was never aware that Detroiters had such an inferiority complex with respect to the suburbs until I started reading this forum a few years ago." I don't believe it is an inferiority complex. It is a difference of cultures or basically black and white. As an Detroiter, I have never hated the suburbs but I do remember the carloads of suburbanites (read: Whites) throwing things at me, calling me the N-word, police stopping me asking me why I was out there, etc... Detroiters, law-abiding Detroiters know all too well the harassment that was unfairly dished out and old memories die hard. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3720 Registered: 06-2008 |
"Therein lies your problem. You base your perception of Detroit on what you read at this forum." Yeah, I definitely do, in part at least. Hmmm...Somebody basing their perception of a city partially on a message board which consists of residents of that city? Go figure. I suppose that would be preferable to basing it on the stories you see about Detroit on the 6 o'clock news, eh? I'm not sure if you are disputing that there is anti-suburb sentiment among Detroiters or what. The point of my post was simply to point out that, if there is some kind of conflict between the residents of Detroit and the suburbs, the people in the 'burbs seem to be unaware of it, or at least less aware of it. I speak from personal experience. At any rate, I base my opinion of Detroit mostly on the fact that I spend most of my time here. But it’s true that the FIRST time saw the anti-suburb sentiment expressed was here on this board. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3721 Registered: 06-2008 |
"As an Detroiter, I have never hated the suburbs but I do remember the carloads of suburbanites (read: Whites) throwing things at me, calling me the N-word, police stopping me asking me why I was out there, etc... Detroiters, law-abiding Detroiters know all too well the harassment that was unfairly dished out and old memories die hard." This is exactly what I'm talking about. You as a Detroiter seem to be perfectly aware of the animosity that existed and/or still exists toward Detroit by people in the suburbs. But when it comes to the animosity Detroiters have toward the suburbs, most people in the suburbs seem to be unaware of it. Detroit just doesn't show up on their radar screen that much. This has always struck be as a bit odd. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 2121 Registered: 03-2006 |
until the baby boomers (not all of them!) have no more say in what goes on in politics, we are all screwed. | ||
Atwater Member Username: Atwater Post Number: 387 Registered: 09-2007 |
quote: And so long as people are "pro-black (anti-white) power", this region will remain mired in crap. "Pro-black power" is RACIST thinking. How about being pro-southeast-Michigan power? How about wanting us all (everyone in the region) to prosper? Anyone advocating black-over-white or city-over-suburbs deserves white-over-black or suburbs-over-city thinking right back at 'em. And so on it goes.. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3824 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: I don't deny that there is an anti-suburb sentiment among some Detroiters, just as I'm sure there is an anti-Michigan sentiment among Ohioans, and an anti-East Coast sentiment among Midwesterners. However, I do deny that the anti-suburb sentiment is even remotely one-sided. You can test that for yourself by taking a look at the comments in any random article on freep.com about Detroit proper (then compare it to the comments in a random article about the suburbs). I have lived in the city of Detroit, the suburbs of Detroit, and away from Detroit altogether. I have a lot of friends and family from both the city and suburbs. I went to college in Ann Arbor and was surrounded by even more people from suburban Detroit. From first hand experience, I can tell you that at U-M the bias against students from the city by those students from the suburbs was much more pronounced than vice-versa. If anything, and this is my opinion, Detroiters feelings of suburban Detroiters are a reaction to how they have been treated by suburbanites. When I was living in the city as a kid, much of suburban Detroit was off of my radar just like you say the city was not on yours. It really wasn't until I moved outside of the city that I realized how others in the area viewed residents of the city. To clarify, I'm not saying that the life mission of all suburbanites is to denigrate Detroit, but the politicians and the media in all corners of metro Detroit (city included) have prospered off of stoking the divisive sentiments in that region. And since the residents of Detroit are pretty significantly in the minority compared to the residents of suburban Detroit, Detroiters are inherently defensive when issues arise and the interests are split along the city/suburb divide. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 1927 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: If you really listen to them, you'll notice that they're really complaining about the details of the deal; that Detroit isn't getting as good of a deal as we could or should. There are simply a lot of people who would vastly prefer to wait a couple of months for a better deal. | ||
Foxyscholar Member Username: Foxyscholar Post Number: 277 Registered: 12-2007 |
Atwater: but pro-White power is the constitutional way and therefore LEGAL and ETHICAL, huh? Wow... Ok.... That's a different conversation for a different day. Detroit has its problems, clearly. But the problem isn't because of the colors Black, Brown, Red, Yellow, or White. It's because of GREEN (money). | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3723 Registered: 06-2008 |
"However, I do deny that the anti-suburb sentiment is even remotely one-sided. " I'm not suggesting the sentiment is one sided. My observation was that, within this supposed 2-way regional conflict, Detroiters seem to spend more time concerning themselves with the animosity aimed at Detroit than suburbanites seems to spend concerning themselves with animosity aimed toward the suburbs. "If anything, and this is my opinion, Detroiters feelings of suburban Detroiters are a reaction to how they have been treated by suburbanites...since the residents of Detroit are pretty significantly in the minority compared to the residents of suburban Detroit, Detroiters are inherently defensive when issues arise and the interests are split along the city/suburb divide." Probably true to a large extent, and your comment is consistent with my observation. "I can tell you that at U-M the bias against students from the city by those students from the suburbs was much more pronounced than vice-versa." Again, your example shows a Detroiter's awareness of suburban animosity/bias toward Detroiters. My observation concerned suburbanites' awareness (or lack thereof) of Detroit's animosity toward the suburbs. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1128 Registered: 07-2007 |
"here are simply a lot of people who would vastly prefer to wait a couple of months for a better deal." What better deal is that? What makes you think there's a better deal coming? | ||
Atwater Member Username: Atwater Post Number: 390 Registered: 09-2007 |
quote: Excuse me?? I never said any such thing. "Pro-white" and "pro-black" sentiments/actions/etc are equally damaging to the community they occur in. Both are racist. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3825 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: So, my observation is that Detroit students at U-M were on the receiving end of bias from suburban students. If you believe that suburban students were largely unaware of animosity from city dwellers, then what do you believe is the source of bias against city dwellers from suburban students? | ||
Foxyscholar Member Username: Foxyscholar Post Number: 278 Registered: 12-2007 |
Excuse me?? I never said any such thing. "Pro-white" and "pro-black" sentiments/actions/etc are equally damaging to the community they occur in. Both are racist. Sorry need to learn how to quote posts.... "Pro-White" and "pro-Black" may be equally damaging in sentiment but not so in political or economic expression. Detroit's only been a chocolate city since when, the 1970s? The city is 300=plus years old. The game is the same, the only difference in the game is the faces. Racism is more than just "I don't like your kind". It's more of "I don't like your kind and I'm going to oppress your economic, political, social, and educational advancement". The city of Detroit doesn't have that much power, despite what KK and 'em made it look like. | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 781 Registered: 05-2007 |
"Not as pathetic as this: Coleman A. Young endorses his son for Detroit mayor, mom says" In related news, local liquor stores are stocking up on Ouija Boards. | ||
Atwater Member Username: Atwater Post Number: 392 Registered: 09-2007 |
Foxyscholar, racism is all of it, including "I don't like your kind", and unfortunately the City of Detroit right now DOES have the power to do damage- and they are- in the form of preventing Cobo to move forward and numerous other issues. They're focused on blacks maintaining control of things- that's racist. Who cares what color the people are who control Cobo? The ONLY important thing ought to be that Cobo gets the improvements it needs so that the auto show remains and people of ALL colors have jobs related to the convention center and the auto show. Enough race baiting. | ||
Foxyscholar Member Username: Foxyscholar Post Number: 279 Registered: 12-2007 |
Atwater, the race-baiting began with your framing Gaddis' pro-Black stance as racist versus considering it coming from a place of social, economic, and political empowerment. From what I know understand about the Cobo deal, sharing the decision-making is not something I would have readily supported, not because I'm a Black native Detroiter, but that such an arrangement contributes to the pattern of erosion of resources that the city of Detroit once had more of and needs to retain the resources it has left for any kind of survival and sustenance for the future. Also, the sentiments and actions of SOME suburban politicians have not been such of good faith that there would be amicable dealings with such a Cobo decision-making arrangement. It's interesting that some would ridicule the City Council for rejecting this deal because it would benefit the region, but what steps have the suburbs taken with DIRECT IMPACT to benefit the city proper and ergo, the region? I think somebody said upthread about considering another arrangement. I don't know what that might look like, but maybe this particular arrangement would produce some unacceptable unintended consequences. | ||
Atwater Member Username: Atwater Post Number: 393 Registered: 09-2007 |
Foxyscholar, I do think that Gaddis's pro-Black stance is racist. If she wants to empower people, socially, economically and politically, who need empowerment, that's great, but the racial component is problematic. Think how you'd feel about pro-White empowerment. At the end of the day, neither should be seen as acceptable. Too much us-versus-them, and it's all damaging. As for Cobo, again, too much us-versus-them. Who cares about city versus suburb ??? What the hell is the difference between them, other than being on different sides of a road (8 Mile). Much of what is now Detroit was at one time considered suburb. The distinction is stupid and meaningless. No matter where you live in the metropolitan area, we're all in this together. Personally, I'd love to see the city maintain control of Cobo, do what they need to do with it, and thrive, but the reality is they've done a horrible job with it and something needs to be done. If the city government can afford to fix Cobo up, let them. Otherwise, for the good of the city, the region, and the state, a deal needs to be worked out that transfers control to those who can make Cobo what we all need it to be. If you really want to see the City of Detroit proper have "any kind of survival and sustenance for the future", an expanded Cobo with the Auto Show would be a great start toward that. And it won't happen while Cobo remains under the broke city's control. | ||
Foxyscholar Member Username: Foxyscholar Post Number: 282 Registered: 12-2007 |
Atwater: I get it: the pro-Black positioning feels threatening. But that's part of the problem: pacifying White guilt through diminishing the call for equity across political, social, and economic areas. And until we (general use of we) are ready to have those conversations on a tangible, transparent level, these divisions are going to continue. You ask me how I'd feel about pro-White empowerment? How about I've LIVED it and managed to navigate it in my schooling (including a doctoral candidacy) and employment (I've been the only African American GRADUATE DEGREED person in my department but I was the one laid off first). I don't share that to whine, but to emphasize the necessity to call things as they are. There is an us-versus-them. And for some of them/us, that division works very well because the division perpetuates poverty, illiteracy, and ultimately political, social, and economic suppression. Maybe there is hope for regional cooperation. It is the role of Detroit's mayor to contribute to that cooperation. But that doesn't mean selling the city's rich resources for some cheap beads, either. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 905 Registered: 11-2003 |
Fnemecek said: quote:For Mr. Hendrix the Cobo rejection isn't about getting a better deal, it's about getting votes from the kind of selfish, misinformed voters that Ms. Watson and Ms. Conyers called into the crowded City Council meeting today. (Mildred Gaddis sees through this and privately is probably none too happy with having to back up Mr. Hendrix on this one.) By succumbing to his base political ambition, Mr. Hendrix has not only mortally wounded one of our last chances to kickstart meaningful regional economic cooperation, he has catalyzed the beginnings of a political resurrection for Monica Conyers, a politician whose leadership is so divisive and poisonous that she almost makes John Engler look like a good guy in comparison. And why are these voters selfish and misinformed? Well, watch the proceedings on Ch. 10 tonight and you will see that they are selfish because their opposition to the Cobo plan does not really derive from trying to get a better deal. It derives primarily from the disrespect that these folks feel they have been subjected to because this deal has come to the city as a take it or leave it thing. How dare anyone try to dictate to Detroiters about what they should do with one of their "jewels." The regional economic and governance issues that should be so important to Detroiters don't really matter to these folks. Sure, the benefits of regionalism are somewhat uncertain and indirect for an everyday Detroit citizen. Figuring out what to do is not easy and would require some study. But just look how good it feels right here, right now when you can scream for the hundredth time that you're being disrespected by all those suburban and Lansing folks. You can show them. No need to come up with an action plan that actually tackles the hard public policy issues. Just protest against anything that comes around that does not pay you sufficient respect. But what could be more selfish than making important judgments based on whether or not your feelings have been hurt? And as for misinformed, well, none of the "disrespected" really addressed the financial realities that Joe Harris and Irwin Corley provided the council. The five members of the council who voted no didn't address the finances either. They merely nitpicked a couple of red herring legal technicalities and complained that Grand Rapids got a better deal several years ago (in a completely different economic and fiscal environment). All of this is just further evidence that the motivation to reject this deal is subjective, not objective. Only a few short weeks ago on the steps of the U.S. Capitol, President Obama said this: quote:Ms. Conyers, Ms. Watson and too many others simply can't let it go. If Detroit is to thrive again anytime soon, responsible leaders on both sides of Eight Mile must let go of the destructive political landscape of the past. For present purposes, Cobo Center is not a jewel and it matters not a wit to the economic future of Detroit that it continue to be owned by Detroit. The rejected deal provides a direct cash subsidy to Detroiters from the pockets of those suburbanites (not to mention Yoopers and other out-staters) at whom Detroit leaders like Ms. Conyers spend so much time directing their hostility. This plan might have been a large first step toward stopping Detroit's decline. Instead, it's not an overstatement to say that this has been a large step backward on a dark day for this region. | ||
Atwater Member Username: Atwater Post Number: 394 Registered: 09-2007 |
Well, Foxyscholar, I understand your position and I think you understand mine, regarding the race issue. Let me just say one thing though, in regard to the city- the current black population of the City of Detroit cannot successfully manage the city on their own, as has been clearly evidenced by the last few decades. The city needs to share the cost with those beyond its borders- geographically and racially- and with the share of the cost should come a share of the ownership. If those in charge continue to want to maintain "city" "black" control, they'll end up with "city" "black" control over nothing. We need to start thinking regionally instead of city-versus-suburbs, or the whole area is doomed. | ||
Carman Member Username: Carman Post Number: 14 Registered: 08-2008 |
Thank you Swingline. That was exactly what I was getting at when I started the thread. A step back, indeed! | ||
Norm Member Username: Norm Post Number: 85 Registered: 08-2005 |
Swingline, Have you talked to Mr. Hendrix directly, face-to-face, about his stance on Cobo Hall? You claim his stance is only "about getting votes from the kind of selfish, misinformed voters that Ms. Watson and Ms. Conyers called into the crowded City Council meeting today?" I realize you supported him in 2005 and now are very much opposed to his candidacy, but your statement might be just a tad unfair to him , in my opinion. Could his stance possibly have anything to do with some of the details of the plan? Actually, under the existing Authority language the city does NOT get a direct cash subsidy from suburbanites - no money will be going into the city's general fund. I think there is a possibility that Mr. Hendrix simply thinks that this is a bad deal for the city of Detroit. Prior to his statment on Cobo Hall he had talked about not making short-term deals that may not benefit the city in the long run. Here's a portion of his website written well before his Cobo statements: "City government has responded to the most recent fiscal shortfalls by cutting services across the board – in other words, cutting some of everything, rather than according to set priorities. This lack of priority-setting is the very definition of poor leadership. In recent years, Detroit has also begun the short-sighted practice of selling valuable assets to cover yearly budget shortfalls. If the revenue of the sale is not reinvested in other city assets that can produce more revenue in the future, the financial problem only gets worse. The City needs to improve its working relationships with Wayne County and other governmental bodies with jurisdiction in Detroit, such as the Detroit Board of Education and the Huron-Clinton Metro Authority." Anyway, just thought I'd throw the idea out there that maybe its more than just raw, political calculation on Hendrix's part. | ||
Kevgoblu Member Username: Kevgoblu Post Number: 200 Registered: 02-2007 |
Interesting how much support the Big 3 get here, but that support doesn't necessarily translate over to the city. When you look at it, the comparisons mirror each other. The Big 3 (Detroit) is in a position of being a historical industry leader, now teeting on the edge of collapse at the hands of the imports (suburbs). The Big 3 (Detroit) pays a disproportionate amount of its revenue (taxes) to support it's legacy costs of ex employees back in the day when The Big 3 (Detroit) commanded 90% market share (2M residents). That status has since diminished, so now they pay increased per capita costs to support their disproportiately large infrasture and dealer base (police, park/road maintenance). Add to that the competion from the imports (suburbs) does not have to support any legacy employees. This frees up extra money to invest in design / high quality components (city services). The viscious cycle is now in motion. As long as the imports (suburbs) are allowed free market access without having to pay tarriffs (regional taxes) the Big 3 (Detroit) will be in a position of paying exponetially increasing fixed costs and providing a correspondingly decreased product. When speaking about the auto industry a large number of people aknowledge that free trade does not equal fair trade. Yet, while speaking of the city a lot of this sentiment changes into a "you caused your own problems" type of attitude. | ||
Macknwarren Member Username: Macknwarren Post Number: 134 Registered: 10-2007 |
Atwater: You said "the current black population of the City of Detroit cannot successfully manage the city on their own, as has been clearly evidenced by the last few decades." Is it the fault of "the black population" or the fault of the fact that hundreds of thousand of people have left the city over 50 years, which depleted the revenues and left the city, no matter who is running it, unable to be managed? Brooks Paterson takes pride in his management of Oakland County, and well he should. But I would say managing one of the wealthiest counties in the nation has been a lot easier than managing one of the poorest cities in America. Imagine Patterson trying to manage Detroit. I think it would have been a very different story. People watch clowns like Monica Conyers and Kwame Kilpatrick and it diverts attention from the real structural problems underlying our region. I agree with the second part of your post about rhe city and suburbs sharing. | ||
Foxyscholar Member Username: Foxyscholar Post Number: 283 Registered: 12-2007 |
Atwater: I hear what you're saying. Macknwarren's post articulates my point as well. | ||
Atwater Member Username: Atwater Post Number: 395 Registered: 09-2007 |
Macknwarren and Foxyscholar, good point. | ||
Detroitej72 Member Username: Detroitej72 Post Number: 1254 Registered: 05-2006 |
Another view:http://www.freep.com/article/2 0090223/OPINION04/902230313/10 72/Take+Cobo+deal++then+improv e+neighborhoods I thought this was interesting: Most taxpaying residents and business people whose money built Cobo Hall have moved out of the city or are dead. That comment should cause Mo Co to have violent spasms. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 906 Registered: 11-2003 |
Didn't have time to include some of these examples in my earlier post about the motivations of many Detroiters opposed to the Cobo deal as expressed at today's City Council hearing: 1. One lady commended the City Council for its "warrior spirit" in protecting a Detroit jewel. 2. A couple of people blithely called the deal a privatization, to a chorus of amens from some CC members, despite no evidence that it will be transferred to private management. 3. In a surreal statement, Martha Reeves equated the deal to 1960's urban renewal and that the deal will just be another program imposed on Detroit that will cause Detroiters to lose their homes. Wow. 4. One angry gentleman, in a raised voice, complained about being harassed and chased out of Northland by white shop owners at Northland when it opened 50 years ago and that we can't now let those same people come into Detroit and take our property. 5. Barbara Rose Collins stated that maybe the deal is the best that the city can get but that they should still reject it because the City Council had been disrespected by the State Legislature. 6. After about 4 members of the public in a row played the "disrespect" card in one form or another, a white union member employed at Cobo Center who voiced support for the deal and invoked President Obama in urging all sides to work together was shouted down by folks in the gallery. There's respect for ya. 7. Another white union member (Teamster) who supported the deal and suggested that it would help relieve some city budget pressures and thereby preserve Teamster jobs was told by Ms. Conyers that since most Teamsters in Detroit looked like him rather than like her, his point wasn't a very good one. 8. A council fixture, the 90 year old Mother Jones (I think her name is Jones) was allowed to pray for about 3 minutes and then prattle on for another 3-4 minutes about not letting outsiders take things from Detroiters. The next witness, the Convention and Visitor Bureau Director, Larry Alexander, was cut off in mid-sentence by Ms. Conyers after his 3 minutes expired. 9. In response to Joe Harris' explanation that the deal will save the city in excess of $20 million per year while still enjoying the economic benefits of Cobo Center, Ms. Watson claimed that the "self determination" that the city would retain was reason enough to reject the deal. It is 100% clear that the motivation of most of the opposition to the Cobo deal is not based on public policy, finances, jobs, the economy or any other "good government" reason. It is simply about demonstrating that Detroiters must be respected and that they won't be told what to do by outsiders. Not saying that there is any connection, but this is the same motivation relied on by drug gangs and run of the mill thugs when they resort to violence in order to impose their will or in responding to a slight. All in all, a surreal and frightening exhibition of Detroit government in action, even by the standards of our City Council. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 1384 Registered: 11-2003 |
This is why council meetings need to be held AT NIGHT when people who have jobs and responsibilities and aren't paid to attend can come. The council members make 80k+ a year. They could work the night shift on major issues or once a week, there's a lot of their constituency that does that for $8 an hour. They should have some true respect for the people of the city and not load the deck with daytime council meetings. What are they afraid of? They have police escorts at night, anyway. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3724 Registered: 06-2008 |
"If you believe that suburban students were largely unaware of animosity from city dwellers, then what do you believe is the source of bias against city dwellers from suburban students?" In the academic setting, I think much of the bias stems from the widely held belief that students from urban areas have been poorly prepared for higher education and are not on the same level intellectually as their suburban peers. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 3725 Registered: 06-2008 |
Swingline: Wow. And here I thought that Ford Field, Comerica and the Fox were Detroit's entertainment spots. What you just witnessed inside city hall sounds far more entertaining than anything those other venues could could put on, and for a cheaper price no less. | ||
Cushkid Member Username: Cushkid Post Number: 82 Registered: 08-2005 |
Cheaper for the suburbs, unfortuently this is costing detroit some serious money. | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 757 Registered: 07-2006 |
quote: Maybe getting hit with airborn grapes during the hearing? Perhaps a CC CPU is needed to protect CC from themselves. Now that sounds like some wise spending. Swingline: I appreciate you displaying minutes and testimonials from the hearing. Nothing in your post surprises me one bit. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3827 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: I'm speaking specifically of Detroit urban to suburban interactions. I didn't notice the same bias against students from Brooklyn, D.C., Chicago, etc. Even in social settings at U-M, I noticed that there was a bias of suburban students against those from Detroit (in fact, in social settings is where it was most apparent). Furthermore, I didn't notice this same bias against Detroit students from U-M students who were from suburban areas outside of Michigan. So I think there was a little more there than an intellectual bias... | ||
Bobby08 Member Username: Bobby08 Post Number: 146 Registered: 09-2008 |
"but what steps have the suburbs taken with DIRECT IMPACT to benefit the city proper and ergo, the region?" Good Question Foxy! I've yet to see any attempts in the past. Yet. I'm a bit torn over this deal to be honest. | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 462 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Furthermore, I didn't notice this same bias against Detroit students from U-M students who were from suburban areas outside of Michigan. So I think there was a little more there than an intellectual bias..." Exactly. The bias is even greater if they realize that you're intellectually equal or superior to them. It's almost as if, since there is affirmative action, the fact that there are actually some Black students with high IQs and test scores causes their brains to register a "systems error". | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 908 Registered: 11-2003 |
Some fascinating stuff on the radio this morning. Mildred Gaddis had Mr. Hendrix on for an extended interview. He was very passionate and articulate about his unsuccessful candidacy. Even though I've criticized him for his Cobo deal stance, he is clearly a good man who would make a good mayor. With regard to Cobo, he talked a good game when the subject was brought up. He sought to rebut claims that his Cobo deal opposition was politically motivated. Maybe he's telling the truth about his motivation, but if so, it's just very troubling and kind of sad that the one candidate with perhaps the most ability and potential to lead Detroit into a future of regional cooperation got the Cobo issue so wrong and has potentially caused so much damage. Mr. Hendrix repeatedly claimed that the deal was giving away too much. He also claimed that the expansion plan itself was flawed because it was too small. He claimed that the expansion would be obsolete before it was completed. But how can he not understand that the vast majority of the economic benefit generated by Cobo Center's operation, i.e., money spent by event attendees and exhibitors, would remain right here regardless of whether ownership of the facility is transferred? He never addressed this obvious point with Ms. Gaddis and she conveniently didn't ask him. As for being obsolete, well, the backers of a more ambitious expansion plan are simply drinking too much Koolaid dished out by the trade show industry that benefits from the convention center arms race competition. Mr. Hendrix and folks like Ms. Watson apparently believe that Detroit has to join the national convention cities like Atlanta, Orlando, Chicago and Las Vegas and build a center well in excess of 1 million sq. ft. But this is hogwash. Overall convention attendance and square footage demands are flat if not contracting. Here is a link to a well-known 2005 Brookings Institute report about convention centers. http://www.brookings.edu/~/med ia/Files/rc/reports/2005/01cit ies_sanders/20050117_conventio ncenters.pdf There has not been a competing report discrediting its conclusions that most cities cannot benefit from an expensive mega convention center. Second tier cities must instead compete not on size but on amenities and cost. Excluding auto shows, less than 30 events require more space than Detroit already possesses. Detroit has far more pressing needs that require money and leadership (mass transit, education, anyone?) than some pie in the sky effort to try to ascend to the ranks of Atl/Orlando/Chi/LV as a convention destination. To make the effort is foolhardy. In fact, the scaled down expansion plan is brillliant in its fiscal restraint and in understanding what is achievable for Detroit. Mr. Hendrix was just wrong on this one. Although a small majority of the total voters in the special primary selected two candidates who supported the Cobo deal, Mr. Hendrix inflicted perhaps fatal damage on the matter. He admitted to lobbying City Council members and it is likely that he turned the decisive vote from Ms. Tinsley-Talabi. As for more interesting radio stuff, Frank Beckman this morning went on an admitted rant about the City Council meeting on the Cobo deal. He flat out decried the racism he witnessed at the meeting. He cited a couple of the antics mentioned in my earlier post in this thread. He also mentioned the clearly audible outbursts of "Go home" when the local organizers of the NAIAS were asked to assume chairs at the table and speak. To have the ignorance and hate present below the surface, so to speak, is one thing. To have our City Council actively serve as an outlet is something else altogether that is shameful. A City Council president with any integrity would have ejected any individuals making racist outbursts. Instead, we have elected racists sitting at the table nodding amens. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3828 Registered: 04-2006 |
^Are there many American conventions that are bigger than the NAIAS? | ||
Norm Member Username: Norm Post Number: 88 Registered: 08-2005 |
Swingline, I enjoy reading your posts. You almost always provide some thoughtful and substantive commentary. While the Cobo hall issue is much more substantive, the outcry against Hendrix over it reminds me of the outcry against him when he signed the young boys program at Rosa Parks funeral prior to the last election. This guy just can't seem to catch a break. I did not listen to Gaddis today - did he bring up his opposition to the single person veto provision of the Authority (which is like the Security Council in the United Nations where any of the members can single handidly block a UN resolution or action)? I remember him saying that he believed this ran counter to the philosophy of regional cooperation and instead implied a sense of suspicion and distrust that the region needs to get rid of. I also think it is important to note that Hendrix did not use the language that Conyers and them used to oppose the deal. He was opposed to details of the deal rather than attacking a "racist" state legislature like some of the council members did. The ironic part of the complaints about how Conyers conducted the hearing is that Hendrix got tons of bad press for actually having disruptive audience members and protesters removed from school board meetings when they were there to simply disrupt the proceedings. As a side note, what I always found interesting about the amount of venom hurled at Hendrix for his Cobo stance by Stephen Henderson, Editorial page editor of the Free Press, was that the candidate the newspaper endorsed, Warren Evans, was also against the Cobo deal, but I don't recall any articles criticizing Evans for his stance on the situation. |
