Discuss Detroit » Archives - March 2009 » Pontiac In Recievership « Previous Next »
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 53
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WWJ is reporting that:

The city of Pontiac has been placed in receivership, meaning an emergency financial manager will be appointed, etc.

That's according to the city council president, who says a letter was sent to the city.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1273
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 9:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

About time. That city has been a disaster for years.
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Eastdetroit224
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Username: Eastdetroit224

Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 10:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Take each member of the Detriot City council past 8 mile to Pontiac. ( let them enjoy cities like Birmingham and Royal Oak on the way ) Show them how Pontiac looks since it lost a big venue like the silverdome. Then take them back to Detroit to the big silver building over Jefferson called COBO hall. And tell them, that loosing this venue will hurt us like Ponitac is hurting.
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Thafuzz
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Username: Thafuzz

Post Number: 23
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Channel 4/ClickOnDetroit:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29 386497
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 54
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the above site:

quote:

The Governor said in a preliminary review that began on July 31, 2007, the state found the annual general fund expenditures of the City had consistently exceeded annual general fund revenues, resulting in accumulated deficits.

A total deficit at the of the 2008 fiscal year was projected to be approximately $12 million. The Governor also cited other factors contributing to the financial emergency, including the Mayor's office and City Council exhibiting an ongoing inability to resolve budget issues.



Sounds like a drop in the bucket compared with a certain city I know that seems to fit some of these criteria. 12 Million is Cobo money!
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Baselinepunk
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Username: Baselinepunk

Post Number: 127
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess they could always demo Cobo and sell the scrap. Perhaps there is 12 million in just metal?
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 55
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ask the demo company for Tiger Stadium. They should give you a ballpark figure... LOL
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Brg
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Username: Brg

Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Take each member of the Detriot City council past 8 mile to Pontiac. ( let them enjoy cities like Birmingham and Royal Oak on the way ) Show them how Pontiac looks since it lost a big venue like the silverdome. Then take them back to Detroit to the big silver building over Jefferson called COBO hall. And tell them, that loosing this venue will hurt us like Ponitac is hurting."

If Pontiac is hurting because of the Silverdome then there is a lesson here to be learned: small cities should not build multi-million dollar stadiums that they can't afford nor should they attempt to build convention centers they can't book for the year.
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Rockcity2windycity
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Username: Rockcity2windycity

Post Number: 333
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pontiac isn't hurting just because of the Silverdome but it is a major factor. When the Lions were there the Dome was a major money maker. The problem is that the Dome has become a money pit. It just sits there. That building should have been sold years ago. The city council sat on their hands waiting on the deal of a lifetime and passed up many reasonable deals. Now it's just sucking money from the city.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1840
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You mean the Pontiac City Council wasn't willing to give up one of the city's jewels to outsiders? Never mind that it would have been a better deal for the City?

My God, I swear I've heard that somewhere else... hmm...
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 1137
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Silverdome is an issue in Pontiac but it's not what's dragging down the city. One of the big problems is the mandatory staffing in their fire department. They've had to decimate their police department because they are required by law to keep a certain number of fire fighters employed even as crime rates have increased in the city. They have also been plagued by ineffective or incompetent financial management and oversight for a number of years. Now the hole is so deep that there's no easy way for them to get out.
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Lodgedodger
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Username: Lodgedodger

Post Number: 1537
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If Detroit doesn't get its act together, they will be next.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1278
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lodgedodger is speaking the truth, although I would venture to say that the state will wait until they absolutely have to take over Detroit because of the political ramifications of doing that.
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 56
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At what point would the state say enough? What would be the tipping point? I'd be hard pressed to see any solution to the 300 million+ deficit, the bond ratings, and now the council's nose thumb at the Legislature and State.

With the obvious lack of sane leadership in the council, it's probably a foregone conclusion that before the year is out, there will be some action taken.
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Tkelly1986
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Username: Tkelly1986

Post Number: 445
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit should go into recievership. That's the only way we'll get competent people managing the books.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1279
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

True true, but after the DPS takeover debacle, the state is not about to jump into takeover of anything is Detroit before it has to. At least not any Democratic governor. If the GOP win the governorship in 2010, they will not hesitate to takeover Detroit.
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Lodgedodger
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Username: Lodgedodger

Post Number: 1538
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This Cobo Hall mess has made receivership more of a reality. Many of the comments by those who have worked on the Cobo deal mention Detroit's fiscal health and how the Council doesn't understand the ramifications of voting against the deal.

From the Governor's letter to the City of Pontiac: '...including the mayor's office and City Council exhibiting an ongoing inability to resolve budget issues.' Sound familiar?

Whomever wins the Mayoral race in May had better hit the ground running and make some smart, fast decisions.
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Det_ard
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Username: Det_ard

Post Number: 35
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit pols lack competence. Lansing pols lack guts.

It's a draw. We lose.
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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1842
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While I agree in general that "Lansing pols lack guts", the idea of Lansing putting Detroit into receivership is not a simple thing. First of all, it's not a political decision; you have to have established certain criteria. Second of all, Detroit's problems run deep and wide, and I'm not sure there's enough energy at the State level to devote the necessary resources to trying to solve enough of them to make Detroit somewhat solvent again. Third, any solution will throw thousands of Detroit City workers out of a job, which right at the moment will be a sensitive issue.

What hurts the worst is Detroit is somewhat rudderless at the moment, since Ken Cockrel is only an interim Mayor, and whoever is elected in May will also be only an interim Mayor, who (if he wants to have a chance to be elected to a full term in the fall) will put off making any unpopular decisions. And dealing with Detroit's money woes will require making lots of unpopular decisions.
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Stosh
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Username: Stosh

Post Number: 58
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Third, any solution will throw thousands of Detroit City workers out of a job, which right at the moment will be a sensitive issue.



Like that won't happen anyway?

KC's going to have to make the hard choices before the election. So will the Council. The city's fiscal year 2010 starts in July.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4518
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Once The City of Pontiac is under recievership, The finanacial manager would oversee what money to spend, what money not to spend and what programs and their payrolls to cut in order to save money. Pontiac city leaders and their employees not allow to touch that money that is budgeted and public meetings to discuss money spending will be cut. Any city employees and politicians attempt to take the money from the treasure dept. will be charge with embezzlement.
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Luckycar
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Username: Luckycar

Post Number: 152
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let a Pontiac tax payer get in here.Pontiac is a a mini-Detroit with all its problems.Since the 1960s with the building of the downtown "loop",the racism on both sides,now three sides with a large hispanic population,GM coming and going,its been downhill for Pontiac.The Silverdome closing cost us money.Summit Mall then,Great Lakes Crossing now cost us money.The County Courthouse moving out cost us money.Shall I go on?
The middle class moving to the suburbs,Waterford and points west,cost us money.Now add into the mix corrupt and irresponsible clownsil and mayors who have stole untold amounts over the decades.Does this sound like Detroits future?
State takeover is very welcome news indeed.
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2227
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Blaming leadership is a simplistic way to gloss over the the underlying malaise. Sure there is plenty of blame there, but that alone is not the cause, not even that big a part of it.

Pontiac has the same problem as Detroit, Highland Park, and other cities. It is stuck caring for all the poor, disabled, felons and ex-felons, and needy that the surrounding very wealthy communities exclude mostly by economic means [poor folk simply can't afford it] but other factor including, yes, racism.

For this service they get stuck with higher taxes [for those who can pay], higher insurance, higher crime rates, disease rates, on and on, until they are left with a large needy population who cannot pay taxes but indeed consume them.

The are likewise strapped by huge pension obligations generously handed out in better times to a huge city workforce. Almost none, if any, of those retirees live in the cities, so millions flow out without a penny coming back.

As long as these cities are strapped with these burdens, they will continue to lose tax-paying population while being sneered at by smug surrounding communities whose ease, comfort, lower taxes and insurance and security is insured by maintaining these impoverished de facto ghettos.

If the state were really serious about doing anything during receivership they would foot the city's bill, make these cities tax free zones and subsidize/provide insurance such that it would be lower than the surrounding communities and bring in state police to assist law enforcement. In other words reward the citizens for taking care of all those "undesirables" that makes life in the surround so bucolic.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 4182
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm glad Lowell brought up the pension obligations. So many times, and too many times, folks look at cities not struggling like a Pontiac and simply assume that they are being managed correctly/aren't corrupt, when the only difference is largely that of luck. Pontiac may not be well managed, but we're all kidding ourselves if we believe that the only visibly apparently mismanaged cities are the only ones being mismanaged.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3939
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Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Almost none, if any, of those retirees live in the cities, so millions flow out without a penny coming back."

Hey, last trip back to Detroit I bought a new belt at Metropolitan Uniform on Beaubien and Macomb. And I took a trip to Windsor, paying the tunnel fee on the Detroit side.

So there.
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Erikd
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Username: Erikd

Post Number: 624
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Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 3:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great post by Lowell. I especially like this section:

quote:

The are likewise strapped by huge pension obligations generously handed out in better times to a huge city workforce. Almost none, if any, of those retirees live in the cities, so millions flow out without a penny coming back.

As long as these cities are strapped with these burdens, they will continue to lose tax-paying population while being sneered at by smug surrounding communities whose ease, comfort, lower taxes and insurance and security is insured by maintaining these impoverished de facto ghettos.



The huge pension and retiree health care obligations held by these cities have a HUGE, and often overlooked, negative financial impact that can't be easily cut or downsized to accommodate shrinking revenue.
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Thoswolfe
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Username: Thoswolfe

Post Number: 103
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 6:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back when Highland Park was a wealthy community, they had one of the best pension plans to attract city workers, I have heard the pension obligations have been a drain on that city's finances of late.

But isn't Detroit's pension fund separate from the general fund?

If so, the retirees are fortunate this was set up.

Adding the income tax, boosting property values and millages to get more taxes, THEN getting millions from casino revenues hasn't been enough to maintain and or improve the city yet.

If the pension funds were accessible for city expenses, City Council could probably pull a Denny McClain scam.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4525
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Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's simply that the proletarians and their politicians who are living in Pontiac what them to FAIL!
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Chrissy_snow
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Username: Chrissy_snow

Post Number: 487
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought pension funds were accessible for city expenses - isn't that what the Detroit pension fund administrators are being accused of? And then today's story about GM's pension fund - it seems like the pension funds are just another pool of money that they tap into whenever they please. Eh, I remember the whole Denny McClain fiasco, you'd think people would learn.
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Locke09
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Username: Locke09

Post Number: 13
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Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The City of Detroit Pension Funds are separate from the General Fund. The pension funds cannot be accessed for City expenses. But, the City has in the past borrowed from the pension fund. The City also makes mandatory annual payments into the fund, and has in the past petitioned the Pension Board to allow them to defer those payments when they were having "cash flow" problems.

The mayor appoints various members (trustees) of the Pension Board, along with those elected by employees and retirees. Oh, and one representative from City Council. Those trustees vote on investment of pension funds. There is often concern that trustees might steer investments to persons in exchange for campaign contributions, kickbacks, etc.
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 3036
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Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 4:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"And tell them, that loosing [sic] this venue will hurt us like Ponitac is hurting."

Detroit is so far beyond the now collapsed Pontiac - thats not even a legit comparison. Pontiac is bad, but it pales in comparison to Detroit.

Detroit is the one who needed this a long time ago.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 1167
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Pontiac is bad, but it pales in comparison to Detroit."

I don't know, Pontiac is pretty bad. It's all a matter of scale. The crime is bad, the government is unable to deal with the problems that are overwhelming the city, city services stink and the city can't pay for the services it needs to provide. Now how is Pontiac better off than Detroit?
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Treelock
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Username: Treelock

Post Number: 284
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've heard high-ranking elected officials from Oakland County government say they'd take Detroit and its problems any day over Pontiac's. Perhaps you missed that little bit about the city's school district closing half its schools.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1952
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Take each member of the Detroit City council past 8 mile to Pontiac. ( let them enjoy cities like Birmingham and Royal Oak on the way ) Show them how Pontiac looks since it lost a big venue like the silverdome. Then take them back to Detroit to the big silver building over Jefferson called COBO hall. And tell them, that loosing this venue will hurt us like Pontiac is hurting.


There's a significant difference in that, even if Cobo were to close completely, Detroit would still have Comerica Park, Ford Field and Joe Louis Arena. Pontiac never had anything to fall back on.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 1173
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Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Perhaps you missed that little bit about the city's school district closing half its schools."

Some people may disagree but that is a good thing. Pontiac schools realized that if they didn't want to become like DPS and have the state running the show, they had to close schools that no longer made sense to keep open based on student counts, that were hopelessly out-of-date and would be costly to renovate and instead, to focus their resources on a smaller number of schools that they could afford to upgrade the facilities and keep more money in the classroom.

Compare Pontiac's approach to Detroit's where they dithered over which schools to close, didn't close enough, allowed neighborhood interests to override the interests of the district as a whole and generally led themselves down the path straight into receivership.

Pontiac could have easily gone down that path. They haven't so far. They tackled the problem despite public protest and made the hard choices that needed to be made. Time will tell whether Pontiac's strategy works but they can at least say that they made those choices themselves. Detroit will be forced to go through the same painful process but it will be at the hands of the state, not the local officials.

'Superintendent Linda Paramore said the district's survival depends on closing the schools.
"We must decrease the number of student seats in this district," she said. "We're already at a $10 million deficit, and if we don't close schools, it could go up to $30 million."'

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20090127/S CHOOLS/901270379&imw=Y

"The redesign comes as district officials say there will be a projected $10-million deficit during the 2009-10 school year. There were nearly 8,000 students enrolled at the end of the 2007-08 school year. This year, there are 7,200 students in the district, which has space for nearly 20,000 students."

http://www.freep.com/article/2 0090127/NEWS03/90127023/1118/r ss
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4531
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Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 8:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

L.B. Patterson don't give a care about Pontiac, Royal Oak TWP. Oak Park and Southfield. He wants to see all of those predominated black communities FAIL!

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