  Whaler Member Username: Whaler Post Number: 159 Registered: 08-2007 |
Weather i Agree or not This is Intresting... THIS IS REALLY WORTH THE 5 MIN. IT TAKES TO READ . This is one of the greatest responses to the requests for bailout money I have seen thus far. As a supplier for the Big 3 this man received a letter from the President of GM North America requesting support for the bail out program. His response is classic, and has to make you proud of a local guy who tells it like it is. Dear Employees & Suppliers, Congress and the current Administration will soon determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis. As an employee or supplier, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard. Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support. Troy Clarke President General Motors North America Response from: Gregory Knox, Pres. Knox Machinery Company Franklin, Ohio Gentlemen: In response to your request to contact legislators and ask for a bailout for the Big Three automakers please consider the following, and please pass my thoughts on to Troy Clark, President of General Motors North America. Politicians and Management of the Big 3 are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has spread like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping this nation, awaiting our new "messiah", President-elect Obama, to wave his magic wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream"... Believe me folks, The dream is over! This dream where we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities...this dream where you still think the masses will line up to buy our products for ever and ever. Don't even think about telling me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's throughout the Midwest during the past 30 years and what I've seen over those years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting. Troy Clarke, President of General Motors North America, states: "There is widespread sentiment throughout this country, and our government, and especially via the news media, that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management which it certainly is not." You're right Mr. Clarke, it's not JUST management...how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass...so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time...for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour work week. How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics...for putting out too many parts on a shift...and for being too productive (We certainly must not expose those lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you folks really not know about this stuff? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: "over the last few years ...we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors." What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? What a joke! We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. It's time to pay for your sins, Detroit. I attended an economic summit last week where brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu, from the Institute of Trend Research, surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". "Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems," but despite what people like politicians and corporate magnates would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day... and the following very important thing would happen...where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up...that is how a free market system works...it does work...if we would only let it work..." But for some nondescript reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work - that we need the government to step in and "save us"...Save us my ass, Hell - we're nationalizing...and unfortunately too many of our once fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what is really happening...But, they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams. ...yeah - THAT'S really important, isn't it... Does it ever occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades in this country?... How can that be??? Let's see... Fuel efficient... Listening to customers... Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul... Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr. W. Edwards Deming four decades ago when he taught that by adopting appropriate principles of management, organizations could increase quality and simultaneously reduce costs.. Ever increased productivity through quality and intelligent planning... Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy" Efficient front and back offices... Non union environment... Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know down deep in their hearts. I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into - my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did when I was their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way) - I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work through it. Radical concept, huh... Am I there for them in the wings? Of course - but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults. I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government. Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins.. Bad news people - it's coming whether we like it or not. The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away." I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the final vote count was tallied..."we really might not do it in a year...or in four..." Where the Hell was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for office. Stop trying to put off the inevitable folks ... That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000... People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits... That job driving that forklift for the Big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year... We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe... That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home... Let the market correct itself folks - it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna' be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it all, is a nation that appreciates what it has...and doesn't live beyond its means...and gets back to basics...and redevelops the patriotic work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world...and probably turns back to God. Sorry - don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news". I hope you take it to heart. Gregory J. Knox, President Knox Machinery, Inc. Franklin, Ohio 45005 | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 3383 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into -" No vendor or supplier is going to issue a statement like that to their only customer. That they probably have outstanding invoices with, that their very survival depends upon. | ||
Bobl Member Username: Bobl Post Number: 596 Registered: 07-2008 |
Well, I agree with this part: "Stop trying to put off the inevitable folks ... That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000... People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits... That job driving that forklift for the Big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year... We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe... " Honorable mention goes to the Deming paragraph. The Japanese used his philosophy to kick our ass...after U.S. automakers abandoned him! | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 645 Registered: 12-2007 |
This is soooo obviously made up. O. | ||
Purpleheart Member Username: Purpleheart Post Number: 63 Registered: 01-2009 |
What a pathetic blow-hard, and I read this before dinner? You should have warned me it was another diatribe from the minions that Rush Limbaugh spawns. This know-nothing ilk doesn't even deserve a response and you either for posting such rubbish. It is baseless accusations from right wing Neo-Cons that got us in this mess and face it YOU LOST- GET OVER IT! In this country the majority rules, next time get your story right and run a campaign which deserves the majority of the votes and then you decide, but for the next four to (yes... and I'll love it) eight years you're on the tail side of the Donkey, get use to the smell. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 1349 Registered: 01-2005 |
Been circulating for months. Google Knox. $1 mil sales or something like that. I also doubt the letter was ever sent. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9520 Registered: 10-2003 |
The letter is real: http://www.snopes.com/politics /soapbox/knox.asp | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 322 Registered: 02-2006 |
This has been floating around for months. The website for Knox Machinery is dead. Can't prove the validity either way. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3844 Registered: 04-2006 |
Meanwhile, Toyota asks Japan for a bail out: http://www.businessweek.com/gl obalbiz/content/mar2009/gb2009 033_969062.htm?chan=top+news_t op+news+index+-+temp_news+%2B+ analysis | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9522 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: No it isn't. http://www.knoxmachinery.com/ People do have different opinions. It does happen. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1180 Registered: 07-2007 |
Three months after the fact... http://www.snopes.com/politics /soapbox/knox.asp | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2444 Registered: 08-2007 |
http://www.knoxmachinery.com/ Mr. Knox sells CNC machines. Most of the machines are made in Japan and China. He does carry one US made tapper. So, considering who butters his bread, I'd say he's been helping out Corker with a firm gripped reach-around. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 2018 Registered: 11-2003 |
Did he also send a letter to the Ford CEO thanking them for not needing or requesting a bailout? He seems to have an agenda when he mentions the Pinto and ignores Ford quality of today which is on par with the best. Did he also send a letter to Wallstreet CEOs complaining about what they have done? | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 3386 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "People do have different opinions. It does happen." The guy probably lied and said he was a supplier to GM. No supplier knowing how hard it is to even get on a vendor list is going to send their customer something so outrageous. He might as well send a request to be removed from their system. If he is an vendor and sent that, he is an idiot. Looking at his website, he's a fly by nite machine importer, there are literally thousands of them out there. 7500 for a wore out South Bend Lathe heh sheesh.. That's worth whatever scrap is. If it was a Monarch or something, yes, South bend, no way. | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 221 Registered: 11-2008 |
Can I please have that five minutes of my life back? Thanks! | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 4114 Registered: 11-2007 |
From his website : quote: Not anymore. This company is just a sales and liquidation firm. And I think what he is quoting, is just hearsay of UAW conditions of 20 years ago, from a couple of liquid lunches at the club. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 1348 Registered: 02-2006 |
Hey! The supplier is hiring! quote: From the website link above. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 4116 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hey, that $7.00/hour at McDonalds comes with a free lunch and uniform. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 610 Registered: 02-2006 |
Sstashmoo, Are you stupid? Can you even spell night? Or have you only seen it in a drive-"thru". Crap like that just proves his point. wore? Nice. This letter is right on. A nail has never been hit more square. It seems like he has spent some time in a UAW shop. | ||
Jiminnm Member Username: Jiminnm Post Number: 1762 Registered: 02-2005 |
Can't refute the message? I guess the answer is attack the messenger. Knox is exactly correct. GM can no longer exist without money from the feds, as they can't sell enough cars to cover their costs and are they are unable to reduce those costs. They have been trying to restructure their debt for months, and cannot do it. Chaper 11 is the only alternative for them to get their business under control (with new management hopefully). | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 325 Registered: 02-2006 |
I'll refute the message. The real cause of failure for American industry is the predatory currency manipulation by certain countries. Not stories about union workers. Let's do some recent history, some countries cut currency values to enhance trade. All they did was cut their prime. We've been forced to do the same. Bottom falls out of market and banking system. There's no denying it. If you think what's going on only deals with GM you are sadly mistaken. | ||
Purpleheart Member Username: Purpleheart Post Number: 64 Registered: 01-2009 |
Knox is correct? What have you been smoking? There is nothing that filthy man said that is correct. It is spiteful hatred against the working men and women of the USA. Truth is only 1000 per vehicle is the cost of labor. All these other figures are simply make believe. The legacy costs are inline when the VEBA is funded. The problem is that due to the economy and unavailable financing (worse since before the great depression) cars are not selling. This is a fact all over the world. So those who think his words are correct, maybe you've had your head stuck up someone's brown eye so long that you failed to see the picture in front of you. Only two companies made money last year, McDonald's and Wal-Mart (Newsweek March 2009) the rest of us are in a pickle, and if you want to see the American Automobile Industry go under I might think that you are the communist wishing the over throw of the USA, because without the big three you would have been speaking German or Japanese by now, what language do you speak anti-American? Sure sounds like that to me! | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 3387 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "Are you stupid? Can you even spell night?" I do it to piss off you self proclaimed scholars.  | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 611 Registered: 02-2006 |
Get your head out of the sand. So much of what he said is right on it isn't even funny. U.S. autoworkers have been overpaid for too long. Who knows how many future generations will have to pay for it. Everybody was out to get "theirs" management and union alike. Nobody looked towards the future. Everybody just thought things would always keep getting better. I get that it is hard work but there are lots of hard jobs that pay a lot less. What about the guy in some dank basement cube staring at a computer screen for 6 plus hours with some know nothing boss breathing over his shoulder all day? You don't think he hates his job too? I always love the autoworker who pulls the old "try and do my job for a week" b.s. I could do it and I could do it better. I would like to see that same autoworker go to college for six and a half years and do the crap jobs I have had to do since graduating for far less. Everything I needed to know about the U.S. autoworker I learned from one. I read Rivethead. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 612 Registered: 02-2006 |
No scholar here. Just trying to keep up standards. I didn't learn how to spell at a fast food joint or texting. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 3388 Registered: 02-2007 |
Quote: "Just trying to keep up standards." LOL ok. | ||
Purpleheart Member Username: Purpleheart Post Number: 65 Registered: 01-2009 |
Where have you guys been for the last 20 years? The auto factory floor is nothing you have ever imagined or I would expect to see, so why in the first place are you commenting? Osmosis? Did you work one in your last life? If you can speak the language of the current equipment that is use now then maybe some people might believe you. Long gone are your assumptions and make believe. The GM factory speaks; Durr, Excello, Rupp, Hautra, Fanuc not even close to your imagination. Most have degrees like I do. Skilled trades are a thing of the past now it's replaced by the manufactures own people on the floor repairing the high tech equipment that builds today’s cars. The exact same equipment that builds BMW, Porsche, Acura, Lexus, GM... It's all the same stuff! Nobody does the kinds of things your talking about and I would bet my pay check next week you wouldn't last ten minutes until some SGV ran over your butt. Quit believing Rush Limpballs, Hanity, and the FOX folks, the last time they were in a plant is when they wore diapers. Yes I am a proud GM employee but only after retiring from the US Marine Corps, BA, and the years of experience running some the worlds finest computers did I secure a job for GM! Don't fantasize with yourself about being able to do my job for a minute. You have no idea what to do or how to do it in a GM Plant with 2009 standards.  | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 615 Registered: 02-2006 |
Ya, I'm sure you are the only person in the world who can do your job. You are right. I wouldn't know what to do in a GM plant in 2009 because I haven't worked in one. EVER. However, I have seen factory floors and I'd rather have been there that at a lot of the jobs I have had in the past that pay way less. What will GM do when you retire? They are really kicking ass with you. Purpleheart, I have all the respect in the world for you as a soldier but zero for you as an autoworker. Wait, I just remembered. I would know what to do in a GM plant in 2009.......................tur n the lights out. | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 224 Registered: 11-2008 |
Quote: Purpleheart, I have all the respect in the world for you as a soldier but zero for you as an autoworker. ============================== =================== A free lesson...a Marine is not referred to as a "soldier". They're Marines, Gyrines, Jarheads or Leathernecks but not soldiers. Soldiers are in the Army. So Brian, what do you do for a living that gives you an attitude that you're better than everyone else? | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 954 Registered: 07-2006 |
quote:my guess - he's probably in banking. Brian, you may very well be able to do better than some autoworkers. So why don't you? Oh, that's right, you went to college. And then, for some reason, took a bunch of crap jobs that didn't pay well. (funny, the argument is often used that autoworkers should have gone to college so they wouldn't have a crap job.) Sounds to me like you're bitter because college didn't pay off as well as you hoped, so your answer is to lower the standard of living of those around you, rather than raise your own. The reason you can't buy more stuff you want can't possibly be because you're not good enough to make more money, right? You have a degree! You should be able to buy anything you want! It must be that those greedy union workers are making everything too expensive for you, right? Besides all this nonsense, the actual compensation a GM hourly worker makes IS in line with that of a transplant. The difference is that the Big Three have been employing people in this country for 100 years, and in more prosperous times, made agreements that brought the working class to a standard of living never seen before. And now they are paying for it, in times that 30-40 years ago would have been nearly unthinkable, in terms of competition from foreign companies. Who would have imagined in the 1960's that foreign companies would destroy so many American industries? And that we would applaud them for doing so? It doesn't matter what industry you're in, the high standard of living the American auto worker has enjoyed in the past affects your job. You, and others like you, like to think you're immune, but the fact is, none of us are. NOT ONE. If, God forbid, the US auto industry does fail, it will at least be some consolation to know that you, and others who cheered on its demise, will also be paying the price. But don't expect my sympathy, I'll just be laughing my ass off at all of you. If it wasn't for the knowledge that my company and my job depend on the spending power of the middle class, I'd almost welcome it. (Message edited by scottr on March 04, 2009) |
