  The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1871 Registered: 11-2003 |
OK-- I will start it off ( and may live to regret it). What do you say about James Joseph Harbaugh's comments about "student athletes" in the U of M football program?? | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 656 Registered: 03-2006 |
He has been talking crap about lot of people lately. It will all come back to haunt him. Whats the point to burn bridges. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3449 Registered: 02-2005 |
Really uncalled for. He's had a good rapport with UM since he left, no? He also just got Jason Forcier, an excellent transfer from UM. Just because Stanford football sucks... | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2544 Registered: 06-2004 |
My physics lab partner was a football player majoring in mechanical engineering. Stanford probably doesn't want the negative PR - he's been muzzled: Gary Migdol, a Stanford athletic department spokesman, told The Associated Press on Thursday there will be no further comment from football coach Jim Harbaugh regarding the University of Michigan. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3453 Registered: 02-2005 |
I know a couple footballers at UM, both econ majors, one a solid honor student. One is a starter, one is second-string. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 124 Registered: 09-2006 |
Whether you think he should have said it or not, what he said was the truth. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2545 Registered: 06-2004 |
It wasn't in my experience at Michigan. You might want to offer up some specific evidence to support your argument. (Message edited by lilpup on August 03, 2007) | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1873 Registered: 11-2003 |
I remember when Harbaugh came out (Sr.year?) and predicted a victory over Ohio State. Bo about pooped. That's a no-no, but the papers played it up big-time. And like Willie Jo Nameth who made the same prediction when the Jets played Baltimore, Harbaugh was right, and they did! Still, I am quite disappointed. And in talking with some folks at Stanford yesterday, I think they are too. "Some things are better left unsaid". | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 658 Registered: 03-2006 |
"Whether you think he should have said it or not, what he said was the truth." Of course, these are football players. Some are as dumb as a post. Every school has the same challenge. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 126 Registered: 09-2006 |
quote: I'm sure your lab partner was a bright guy, but there are a lot more players in the PE school than in the Engineering school or the B-school. Recruited athletes are admitted with lesser academic credentials than the student body in general. They have a demanding schedule, so they are encouraged to take a class load and curriculum that won't leave them overwhelmed. Harbaugh stuck it out in LSA. Good for him. Now he's coaching at an elite university, but one with higher academic standards for its athletes than UM. Of course, Stanford is not an elite football school and UM is. Notre Dame has been an inconsistent power the past 15 years for the same reason as Stanford. Michigan holds its athletes to higher standards than most, just not the Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke level. I don't think what Harbaugh said was so bad. He loves his alma mater and wishes it would hold itself to higher standards. However, if it did, annual bowl games wouldn't be so automatic. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3454 Registered: 02-2005 |
Well guess what, athletes get in with lower academic standards. It's not a UM thing, there is an NCAA calculator that decides how strong of a GPA etc. an incoming student needs if they're a scholarship athlete. Since athletics are a major part of most universities, and since talents that garner awards/recognition help any applicant get in easier anyway, this is wholly justified. Now, when you let in a couple hundred guys who are average or perhaps even poor students, they are going to have a tough time at the #2 public school in the country. You can't make these guys be honor students and pull off the undefeated season everyone always wants. Stanford may have higher standards. Stanford football also sucks. They have choices... | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 127 Registered: 09-2006 |
quote: With an opening like that it seems you're disagreeing with somebody Mackinaw. It can't be me because you made the exact same points I did. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1995 Registered: 12-2003 |
He did speak the truth especially about Football and Basketball players. Don't let them fool you, they use the NCAA minimum not the UMAA minimum. But don't fret, they all do(well the Majority). They are steered towards easy majors. For every Jake Voskul who was what a rocket scientist, there are shit load of basket weavers. | ||
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus Post Number: 200 Registered: 07-2005 |
The comments I saw didn't have much to do with admissions criteria. Of course it is lower for athletes, that is true even at Ivy League schools. I believe he was simply talking about athletes athletic experience. UM's athletic department has control over some of the athletic programs. This is like the fox guarding the hen house. Most universities have a less blurred line between athletics and academics. How many UM athletes have become ineligible for grade issues in the last 10 years? I can't think of many at all, is this because they only admit intelligent highly motivated student athletes? I don't think so. | ||
Rockcity2windycity Member Username: Rockcity2windycity Post Number: 166 Registered: 11-2005 |
Thats not true for Ivy League schools. They dont even give athletic scholarships. | ||
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus Post Number: 201 Registered: 07-2005 |
Just because Ivy League schools don't give academic scholarships doesn't mean that they don't factor in athletic prowess in making admission decisions. I can assure you that they do, just like they factor in other non academic pursuits/talents. I'd be willing to bet you that the academic credentials of the Princeton basketball team are not as high as the rest of the student body. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 129 Registered: 09-2006 |
quote: I didn't see Harbaugh's original comments in The Examiner. I just read the Freep story. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=200770802001 quote: quote: quote: I've read that Jamie Morris ended his friendship with Harbaugh over these comments. I just don't see how what he said is so earth-shattering. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1998 Registered: 12-2003 |
Because the truth hurts, that is why it is earth shattering. | ||
Rockcity2windycity Member Username: Rockcity2windycity Post Number: 169 Registered: 11-2005 |
Agreed Spartacus, i thought u were trying to say Ivy League schools allow dummies into their schools just because they can shoot a ball. | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 302 Registered: 10-2006 |
As discussed on 1270AM the other day after Harbaugh's comments, most Ivy League schools make athletes get accepted to the school academically before even allowing them to try out for a sport. Harvard in particular they mentioned as an example. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3467 Registered: 02-2005 |
Actually not disagreeing, ffdfd, just adding a key point. How high should academic standards be for kids that get in with lower scores thanks to their special talents? | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 132 Registered: 09-2006 |
Thanks Mackinaw. Where would we be without you adding "key points" all over this board? BTW, early on you posted this: quote: Now, this was either random jock-sniffing name-dropping, or you were implying that Harbaugh is off base. | ||
Rockcity2windycity Member Username: Rockcity2windycity Post Number: 170 Registered: 11-2005 |
Whats the difference between an athlete getting special consideration because of his/her athletic prowess and someone getting special consideration because of race or legacy? Atleast most athletes make the school money. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 3512 Registered: 02-2005 |
It's a good point, Rockcity. Harbaugh may or may not be off base, Ffdfd, because my anecdotes only show that there are several football players who do just as good as me academically. That does not speak to the standards, but I'm guessing that Harbaugh was still off base, especially with the way that Lloyd Carr so vigorously shot him down. More than just name-dropping, I lived with one of those guys for 2 years, and study with the other one. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 135 Registered: 09-2006 |
When Harbaugh was in Ann Arbor, Ken Higgins did even better in the classroom than on the field (back then the standard of doing "just as good as" Mackinaw hadn't been established). So those high-end examples were there. In fact, for all Harbaugh knows Higgins was the norm, and if Harbaugh had picked up a study partner or a roommate from the the football team when he was a student he might be better informed now. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1811 Registered: 06-2006 |
Rocketcity: The difference is that playing football is an important extracurricular activity for the school that generates funds, lifts school spirit, and helps promote the schools image.. By contrast, giving someone special consideration simply for being born into a certain race is fucking stupid and ridiculous...in fact, it was so ridiculous that it's now against the law to do so | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 567 Registered: 05-2007 |
I've personally known a handful of UofM football players in years past and can say for a certainty that academics was NOT the basis for their acceptance to UofM. This observation is not meant to disparage, rather to comment on the obvious. It is unlikely that these individuals would have attended the UofM were it not for their athletic abilities. Though I did not attend, I do have friends and relatives who attended UofM based upon academics. There were other factors beyond academics, but it was the primary and initial factor. |
