  Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1062 Registered: 05-2007 |
For all you Wolverine football fans, what is your outlook for the team this season? My (somewhat uneducated) projections are that the Wolverines regular season will come out to 7-5, or 8-4 at best. R2 will put the past behind him, and coach the Wolverines into a new era of success, over time. | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 123 Registered: 04-2008 |
Same old song: 8-4, lose to OSU, lose bowl game, ruin my holidays. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 1078 Registered: 12-2007 |
Spartans are looking pretty good though | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 127 Registered: 04-2008 |
They are. They've yet to lose a game this season. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5174 Registered: 02-2005 |
The future is now. The talent is there. Guys who we don't know about yet will step up. 10-2 Penn State and the opener against Utah worry me the most, outside of OSU. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1063 Registered: 11-2006 |
i hope you are kidding. Rich Rod was already ruined the prestige of the program. Sickening | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5176 Registered: 02-2005 |
No joke. But I'm not going to act surprised if they fall short. I might have too much faith in the talent stream, and the player development skills of the new staff. Prestige is nice, but it wasn't winning us any bowl games or national championships. Winning will restore any lost prestige. Why do you think that Rodriguez "(has) already ruined the prestige" of the program? | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1069 Registered: 11-2006 |
Have you not been following his disastrous start as football coach? Players don't respect him, and they are leaving. He is costing the university millions of dollars, creating terrible press, etc. So, you are covering you bases by saying that you wont be surprised if they lose. In other words, you don't really know or think they'll win 10 games, but hell I hope they do! | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1070 Registered: 11-2006 |
He is not the Michigan Man that Lloyd Carr was, and his record will reflect it. One of the winningest football coaches of his time: 122-40, 5 big ten titles, and a national championship. Of course, he did all of this by doing it the right way - never a scandal, never a controversy. Remember, bo was 5-12 in bowl games, 2-8 in the big one. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5178 Registered: 02-2005 |
I'm saying that if they do worse, I will think that I overestimated the coaches and the player's ability to adjust. Preseason predictions are possibly most difficult and bound to blow up for college football. See the #5 start last year. The possible scenarios are endless. The handful of players that left did the damage to prestige. They were inflexible, immature, and not loyal to the program which their favorite old coach is still a part of. Paying for the buyout is just a fact of the deal. I don't know why people read so much into it. I couldn't agree more re: Lloyd. It became a referendum on UM's ability to win big games against team's with more modern and better conditioned offenses and defenses. I loved the traditional format as long as it worked. I would gladly watch a game where we hand it off to the running back 40 times and he gets 150 yards. The landscape changed, though, and so did the criteria for winning. (Message edited by mackinaw on July 27, 2008) | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1071 Registered: 11-2006 |
It's read into so much because of the way it was handled. You can't honestly tell me that this guy has started off well, can you? Even the most devoted UM people I know won't give me that BS. Many are sick of him already. It's a shame that Carr was essentially forced out like he was. He was a good man, a good coach, and a great teacher. THAT is what college football is about - and he won games. Rich Rod doesn't have that aura about him. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5179 Registered: 02-2005 |
I've been torn about it the whole way through. Five years ago I honestly thought that Lloyd could go on forever and set wins record etc. But then we repeatedly got smoked by our rival and their innovative coach. There's no shame in an outside hire and you can't say that there aren't good men like Lloyd out there. We'll just have to see, and hope. | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 141 Registered: 04-2008 |
Spirit has it right. To me, RR has a good deal of stink on him from leaving his team and fans in the lurch and bailing on his word. RR isn't a Michigan man. He's a RR man. Wouldn't be surprised to see him do Ann Arbor the same way. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5182 Registered: 02-2005 |
I'm not comparing RR as a coach or as a man to Bo, but in responding to Richard_Bak, I have to bring him up. Bo was a Miami man, it was his Alma Mater, he assisted legendary coaches there and then was the head coach. I haven't read a ton about his Miami days, but I'm guessing many adored him there. Then he left for Michigan, but he had also been an assistant at Ohio State beforehand. He left his home state where he had success and where he got his degrees and experience for an enemy state. Do you think there was some stink on him in 1969? Probably. Are we going to call him a mercenary now? No, we call him a Michigan man. Incidently, he replaced Bump Elliot, another definite Michigan man (but who also had jobs at other schools like Iowa) who did not have nearly the winning percentage that Lloyd Carr had, but faced similar criticism because he could not repeat his greater successes (he did have a Rose Bowl win and 9-1 season), and lost to OSU too much. So this is hardly a unique situation, except it is 2008 and there are massive amounts of money being thrown around because its a new era with TV deals and stadium suites (sadly) etc etc. I just think we should keep that history in mind and not be so aghast because of what has unfolded recently. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1065 Registered: 05-2007 |
Excellent points-of-view expressed here thus far, each with merit. Compelling is the idea that a "non-Michigan" man may, or may not, lead the Wolverines to new success over time. It is exciting to witness these significant changes nonetheless. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1074 Registered: 11-2006 |
Mack- being a "Michigan man" doesnt necessarily refer to one's roots. Carr, who truly was, as he started his career coaching a Detroit HS, earned his name as a Michigan man based on the way he carried himself - a way in which all Michigan people should. Doesnt have so much to do with the fact that one is or isnt FROM Michigan. | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 142 Registered: 04-2008 |
Bo didn't leave Miami of Ohio in a cloud of controversy. RR's manner of leaving has raised some questions about his character--at least to me. And character is what a lot of people mean when they say "Michigan" man; it doesn't mean the guy necessarily attended or coached at UM or that he's even from the state. Of course everybody is from someplace else; hell, practically half the squad each year is from Ohio. I'm unashamedly old school. After so many years of Bo and Lloyd, RR is going to take some getting used to. Check back with me in 10 years. If RR is still in Ann Arbor and there hasn't been some recruiting scandal or he hasn't bolted town for the first sweet offer elsewhere, my gut feeling about this guy will be totally wrong and I'll be happy to admit it and knit him a maize-and-blue sweater. I'd get down from my soapbox but I like the feeling of being 6-foot-10. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5183 Registered: 02-2005 |
Spirit, I understand completely. It denotes a loyalty to the program as well, which both Bo and Lloyd attained. How could we judge Rodriguez on that when he hasn't even coached a game yet? The verdict is out. Carr coached and taught at Nativity HS for a short time IIRC and played at Northern Michigan...but like you say geography doesn't matter. It's still valuable to point out that Bo had strong roots at other SCHOOLS just as RR had, especially in response to Richard's post. Who could have predicted that he'd be so loyal to our program, and carry himself so well on a grand stage, in 1969 when he was foreign to Michigan fans? He also had a defection problem with players (as you pointed out readily regarding Rodriguez). He was extremely tough, and extremely different. And then "those who stay will be champions" was coined. Prestige was certainly lacking in the early stages of 1969. And then it was rebuilt. (Message edited by mackinaw on July 27, 2008) | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1076 Registered: 11-2006 |
first impressions are important. No one can doubt that Rich Rods first impression hasnt been great - and essentially that's all were really talking about here | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5186 Registered: 02-2005 |
Yeah, that's all we can go by from where we're standing now, but saying that all the prestige is gone and being so down on the guy before he's proven anything is too much. How do you think we'll do? | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 143 Registered: 04-2008 |
Just run a clean program, don't do anything to embarrass yourself, the team, or the state, and kick OSU's butt and win a bowl game here and there. Do that, and do it over time, and RR will be considered a "Michigan man" (unless, of course, he's secretly a woman or a transvestite). Well, whatever, he has a chance to start clean and make a good living at a great university. Who the hell would want to leave? Time always tells. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1077 Registered: 11-2006 |
I see losses at Penn State, at Ohio State, and against MSU(••• with room to drop one or two others. I see 8-4, 7-5 competing with MSU in the standings Definite benefit of having an extra home game at the big house | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 144 Registered: 04-2008 |
I'm looking at 9 wins, maybe a 10th in a bowl game. Obviously, the most interesting games will be against MSU (will he "get" just how intense this rivalry is?) and OSU. I have to admit I'm looking forward to seeing how the spread does...Michigan's defense has been pretty porous over the last decade and now it looks like the strategy is to simply outscore everybody. Should be some basketball-like scores. But every program has growing pains, so another 8-win season wouldn't surprise me. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5187 Registered: 02-2005 |
Well Dantonio makes it his job every waking hour of his life to find out how to beat Michigan, but I still don't like MSU's chances. I hope RR doesn't let it become a rivalry (in terms of hoopla and bulletin board material) or let them get one. @ PSU and @ OSU is killer, and Notre Dame will come on strong. I think the defense will be a legitimate strength, and I am eager to see if any of the new strength and conditioning approaches pay off. The offensive line will probably be a weakness (which spells doom against OSU) but again I'd like to see what type of shape the new coaches have them in. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1079 Registered: 11-2006 |
Yeah, if this game was at EL, then I'd would say it would be a definite Spartan victory. I still think they'll pull one out..... @ Notre Dame will be tough as well | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1069 Registered: 05-2007 |
Wisconsin is why Wolverines may lose 5 regular season games. Avenging the loss to the Badgers last year would be a game I'd like to fly in to see this year. | ||
Richard_bak Member Username: Richard_bak Post Number: 146 Registered: 04-2008 |
There really is a difference in how the schools approach the UM-MSU game each year, isn't there? For the Sparties, it absolutely makes their season to win...almost nothing else matters. Michigan, on the other hand, basically considers it just another game on the schedule--which is a mistake, of course. RR won't grasp the emotional intensity of the rivalry until he actually coaches one of these affairs. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 1083 Registered: 12-2007 |
Richard...Notre Dame and UM are our biggest rivals...But there;s nothing like an instate rivalry. At WVU...who was his biggest rival...Pitt??? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5190 Registered: 02-2005 |
Richard, I think some of the players last season(namely Mike Hart) made very clear how UM views MSU. It's a semi-rivalry I would say, in that UM wants very badly to keep them down, and gets annoyed at them enough to talk a bit before and after the game, but they have bigger fish to fry, and have dominated in the W-L column. But on the other side State brings a ton of gusto, and since it's an instate rivalry, it gets watched nationally quite often. It also has some effect on midwest (especially Michigan) recruiting. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 1087 Registered: 05-2007 |
Countdown to Kickoff: A New Video Each Day in August |
