  Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2007 |
What a terrific thread, and I only just noticed it. I love this stuff. The picture of the Packard Clipper crated for shipment overseas reminded me of a story my dad told me. Some time in the 70s an old lady in Colombia died (I'm forgetting who he said she was) and on her ranch in the coutnry outside of Bogota, in an old barn, was discovered an old shipping crate that had sat undisturbed for a long, long time. In that crate was a "new" Model T that had been shipped to Colombia in the 1920s and was never taken out of the crate. I think the car was auctioned or something. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6595 Registered: 10-2003 |
I just cames across this notice this am: quote: http://www.canadiandriver.com/ thenews/2008/03/24/historian-d onates-collection-to-ontario-u niversity.htm | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6214 Registered: 11-2003 |
What was learned at the Hamtramck Library Dodge presentation? jjaba missed it. jjaba, Westsider. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6618 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hey I got an email from someone today who asked this question: quote: Do those numbers mean anything to anyone? My speciality is more on the architecture side of things...  | ||
Pkbroch Member Username: Pkbroch Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2008 |
Try the website of The Buick Classic Car Club. The GM heritage collection in Warren might have some answers. The classic car clubs are very friendly. Send back a response if you can't find the info. Lots of luck!! | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 866 Registered: 07-2006 |
you may also wish to try the buick gallery at the sloan museum in flint. I'm not sure what info they may be able to provide, but perhaps they know something helpful. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2193 Registered: 12-2005 |
go to www.aaca.org and go to the forums on the right hand column, there is a big Buick forum there, and they would have lots of information. Being a 90 series that's a pretty rare car, the big eight cylinder 90s were almost a Cadillac. | ||
Mazak Member Username: Mazak Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2008 |
Hi everyone, I stumbled across this forum and thread about the old car factories a few weeks back while searching on the Internet for information on the Wadsworth Manufacturing Co. I was totally blown away by the amount of information, maps, photos, etc.. On this thread. I collect and restore the old antique stationary farm engines & marine engines as a hobby been doing this sense about 1980. I have created a website that shows some of our engines if anyone would like to take a look. Now to the point, I started researching a engine company about 8 or 9 years ago called Detroit Engine Works. In my research I discovered that this company and others which I will list below were owned and operated by the Wadsworth Manufacturing Co. I am looking for any information, maps, photos, etc on these companies. Some of you may find the information on my website in the Detroit Engine Works history section interesting. The engine companies listed below were located in the old Chrysler building on Jefferson Ave. addresses are listed in the history section. Wadsworth Manufacturing Co. Detroit Engine Works Michigan Steel Boat Co. Detroit Boat Co. Columbia Engine Company United States Tire Co. Other related companies Detroit Motor Car Supply Co. Standard Motor Parts Co. History section also shows a old news paper photo of a fire at the Wadsworth Manf Co. factory in 1919. Which pretty much destroyed a lot of the factory and also damaged part of the Maxwell Chalmers factory. http://www.antiquengines.com/D etroit_Engine_Works_Menu.htm mazak@rocketmail.com Thank you... John Davis (Message edited by mazak on April 24, 2008) | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 2010 Registered: 04-2005 |
The 1921 Sanborn map for the Standard Motor Parts, 401-15 Catherine & Hastings St, just south of Gratiot. I think it was a parts warehouse.  This is the only one that I had in my notes (so far), although I do recall seeing a few that you've mentioned somewhere along the line. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 6002 Registered: 10-2004 |
Just where exactly was the plant that Pullman bought located? It must have been somewhat close to Gratiot downtown because the early railroad tracks went down Gratiot. I had seen some older street names for it a while back, but for some reason I could not locate on a map (or got lazy). (Message edited by livernoisyard on April 24, 2008) | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 2011 Registered: 04-2005 |
Pullman was at Dequindre and Macomb. I posted the Sanborn someplace on this site; maybe the HOF thread or a car builders one. Don't remember, and too lazy to look, too. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 6004 Registered: 10-2004 |
I found it. Sort of... Pullman: NE corner of Croghan and Dequindre. Croghan is now Monroe. Now, where would that intersection be? (Message edited by livernoisyard on April 24, 2008) | ||
Mazak Member Username: Mazak Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2008 |
Thanks for the replies everyone, Hornwrecker post # 47 on the old car factories thread shows the Chalmers factory which according to a news paper clipping I have was next door to the Wadsworth factory. Was there only one Chalmers factory? One Wadsworth Factory? Post # 48 shows the Michigan Steel Boat Co. I just posted two old photos on my website under the Detroit history section they are believed to be the Wadsworth factory after it burned down August 02, 1919. I will try to see if I can get permission to post them on this forum. | ||
Mazak Member Username: Mazak Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2008 |
Here are the photos I was talking about of the Wadsworth Factory. There are three photos. The first photo is a comparison of the Detroit news paper clipping and the photo we think is the same building after the fire. The second and third photo are also after the fire. The photos are from the T.K.Sand website called (before my time) see URL address below for more details. http://krentz.blogspot.com/ Hornwrecker, Here is the Address & info listed for Standard Motor Parts Co. in the 1918 City directory, E. J. Dayton, Pres. and Treas.; W. S. Grant, Sec. Mfrs. of Auto Parts. 584-590 Franklin. Maybe there was more then one factory?    (Message edited by mazak on April 27, 2008) (Message edited by mazak on April 27, 2008) | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6624 Registered: 10-2003 |
I would agree that there are the same building. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1590 Registered: 12-2005 |
Regarding the Pullman Palace Car Co. Shops, they occupied the block bounded by Macomb, Dequindre, Croghan (Monroe) and St. Aubin. The present day location is at the southeast corner of Pembridge Place and St. Aubin. Here are excerpts from an 1884 street map and Sanborn map.   | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 2012 Registered: 04-2005 |
Mazak, I looked at the Sanborn maps for that area, and it seems once again you've found a building that finds the black hole of missing information for some of the areas. There's maps from 1899 and 1922 for Section 4, but none of those show the Wadsworth factory, or the others It appears that it was replaced by the gas works by 1922, west of the Detroit Stove works. Also nearby was Huppmobile's original plant at 1300-24 E Jefferson & Concord, from 1910-12, and the King factory from 1912-23(?). Maybe someone has a Business guide from that era. Another source if you have names to research is The Detroiters (1908): http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mi /county/tuscola/det/ (Message edited by Hornwrecker on April 27, 2008) | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3614 Registered: 10-2003 |
I looked through two old phone books I have and found the following: 1915 Columbia Engine Co 1275 E Jefferson Detroit Boat Co 1250 E Jefferson Detroit Engine Works 1250 E Jefferson Detroit Motor Car Supply 1250 E Jefferson Michigan Steel Boat 1250 E Jefferson Standard Motor Parts 584-590 Franklin United States Tire 245 E Jefferson Wadsworth Mfg Co (auto bodies) 1256 E Jefferson Wadsworth Mfg Co (factory) E Jefferson & Conners Creek 1918 Columbia Motors Co 1256 E Jefferson Detroit Boat Co Kercheval & Conners Creek Detroit Engine Works Kercheval & Conners Creek Detroit Motor Car Supply Kercheval & Conners Creek Michigan Steel Boat Kercheval & Conners Creek Michigan Steel Boat Dubois & Guoin Standard Motor Parts 584 Franklin United States Tire 245 E Jefferson Wadsworth Mfg Co Kercheval & Conners Creek 1250/1256/1275 E Jefferson present day would be near Beaufait/Bellevue. 245 E Jefferson is between Randolph and Brush. 584-590 Franklin is between Dubois and Chene. Sometime during the war they picked up and moved east from the older industrial belt along the Michigan Central to the developing industrial area along the newly built Detroit Terminal Railway. Wadsworth seemed to have established a factory at "E Jefferson & Conners Creek" as early as 1915 and then consolidated its operations there by 1918. The area was still rural so general addresses such as Jefferson or Kercheval at Conners Creek are probably referring to the same factory. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 6040 Registered: 10-2004 |
It seems odd that the Pullman Palace Car plant doesn't have rail access, according to the Sanborn. Maybe, that's why he left for Pullman, IL... | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 2014 Registered: 04-2005 |
That space between the buildings was a transfer table that exited out to Dequindre, not sure how it connected to the main. There were other reasons why Pullman left Detroit, probably political or other business dealings. I've read about it before, but can't recall it offhand. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 6041 Registered: 10-2004 |
Tongue in cheek. I knew why Pullman really moved his plant out of Detroit. He already lived in Chicago and was prominent there. He acquired companies (like the Detroit firm) primarily for their patents in the early years. Then he built a huge manufacturing facility in his own 6+ square-mile company town. Essentially another Gary Indiana. | ||
Mazak Member Username: Mazak Post Number: 4 Registered: 04-2008 |
Can anyone tell me if it's possible to purchase a copy of a map or a section of a map around the 1900 to 1920 time period that would show most of the different locations of these factories that I have listed along Jefferson Ave, etc and the Detroit river? My email: mazak@rocketmail.com Thanks for all the info everyone. (Message edited by mazak on April 29, 2008) (Message edited by mazak on April 29, 2008) | ||
Mazak Member Username: Mazak Post Number: 5 Registered: 04-2008 |
Mikem thanks for the info. I have an original flyer from Detroit Engine Works that advertised a special sale of a lot of their engines and equipment due to selling the plant at 1256 East Jefferson to the United States Tire Co. There is no date on this sales flyer but I'm guessing this happened around the world war I time period or sometime after the Wadsworth fire of August 02,1919. | ||
Mazak Member Username: Mazak Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2008 |
Mikem, Would it be possible that you could look in your phone books for the years 1915,1918 for the Chalmers factory Address? | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2275 Registered: 12-2005 |
Wasn't the Chalmers plant absorbed into what became Chrysler's Jefferson ave. assembly plant? | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3638 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mazak, Packman is correct. The addresses for both years is listed simply as Jefferson and New Belt Line R.R., although in 1918, it ws listed as a separate division under Maxwell Motors. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2276 Registered: 12-2005 |
 the Chalmers plant,E.Jefferson | ||
Reddog289 Member Username: Reddog289 Post Number: 299 Registered: 08-2007 |
ok let me get this straight, Maxwell & Chalmers became part of Chrysler, which while i,m a west sider i think i remember that old plant, U.S. Tire that would become Uniroyal? wasn,t the last cars built there Dodge Omni/ Plymouth Horizons? well at the Jeff AVE Chrysler Plant. | ||
Mazak Member Username: Mazak Post Number: 7 Registered: 04-2008 |
Mikem, The reason ask for the address of the Chalmers factory on Jefferson was because I knew that the Wadsworth factory was next door to the Chalmers factory but I didn't know which side. Just trying to narrow the location. I also new that the Wadsworth factory on Jefferson eventually ended up as the Chrysler plant. Did the Chalmers factory also end up in Chrysler hands? 56packman, Do you know what year the Chalmers factory photo was taken? | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 2021 Registered: 04-2005 |
From what I have in my notes on Chalmers, they started in 1908, then built the Jefferson plant in 1910. They were there until 1922 when they became Maxwell-Chalmers in a merger. In 1924 it was bought out by Chrysler. The modern address for the plant is 12200 E Jefferson, the old system of addresses is around 2690-2760 E Jefferson (1910). From 1908-10 Chalmers-Detroit were located on Oakland Avenue or part of the old Thomas-Detroit factory on Harper and Dequindre. Things are a bit unclear if any or all of this part is factual. (Message edited by Hornwrecker on May 22, 2008) |
