 
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1979
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 1:25 pm: |    |
That's like Bonderman last year...same thing. Okay, you were pitching in pain "to be a hero" but you might have cost the team a number of games. |
Smogboy
Member
Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 8567
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 3:10 pm: | |
There's always been a fine line between playing in pain and playing stupid. Sometimes I don't think the players themselves know the difference. I think there is so much competition to stay at that elite level that no one really wants to go on the DL in fear of losing their position. Call it pride, stupidity or whatever you want but these guys are competitors.
We as fans also deride them too for their play. When they don't play with minor injuries, they're considered soft. When they do play with pain and lose games because of it- they're stupid.
To be put under that sort of intense criticism on top of having the desire to compete is something that these guys have to deal with daily. It's an immensely tough call for the players themselves to make and often times they have to be yanked out of their rotation by trainers and managers.
I don't think it's as simple as we make it out to be where they players are being stupid by playing with pain and hurting their teams in the long run. There are MANY factors that come into play for these guys- some of which can be selfish and some of which can be for their team. |
Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 876
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 11:06 pm: | |
Jones return from the DL tonight: 0.2 IP 5 runs 3 hits 3 BB, but was pitching in an unfamiliar mop up role.
Willis won for the Mudhens tonight: 6 IP 2 runs 8 hits 2 BB 5 Ks. |
Emu_steve
Member
Username: Emu_steve
Post Number: 703
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 5:50 am: | |
Good news about Willis.
If D-train has speed on his fast ball AND his control then he is on the way back to DET next month. (I mean not sacrificing his speed to regain control).
We need D-Train, Bondo, etc. for next year.
The O's Buck Martinez (TV announcer) reminded all that DET had tons of hitting but pitching, pitching, pitching... (wins games).
Made reference to 'murderer's row.' |
Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 879
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 4:19 pm: | |
Gawd...the O's are just feasting Mora and Mora off Tigers' pitching this afternoon have so far given 17 hits ...oops 18 hits 14 runs 7 doubles 4 HRs w...Luke Scott 2 HRs...oops 19 hits...is there a mercy rule... oops... 21 hits!! Mora just clubbed his 2nd HR..16-6 LOL!!
And the Tigers are heading to hot Texas, after that series, the Rangers will likely have 700+ runs scored this season...isn't that around what the Tigers were predicted to have by now?? |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2564
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 7:37 pm: | |
I don't like seeing it happen against the Tigers, but I am happy to see Melvin Mora having such a successful year. He is one of those guys who, while being pretty consistently productive, never gets a lot of attention; it seems like there is always somebody else, around, who is in the spotlight and gets the ink. He's got a lot on the ball, as the saying goes, and while it is too bad that some guys have to just go absolutely crazy before they get seriously noticed, go absolutely crazy he has, and I say Attaboy, Melvin; you da man.
Actually, I don't really mind that he is doing it against the Tigers. They play like they don't give a damn, so why should I sweat it. |
Smogboy
Member
Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 8603
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 10:07 pm: | |
I'll admit it. I'm watching a chunk of the game out of the side of my head here (background noise).
Matt Joyce is tearing it up. He's gone yard again! Could he be the future of our outfield someday? He seems to be doing pretty darn good right about now. |
Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 885
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 11:24 pm: | |
Joyce seems to be a relatively cheap option in LF, is young and has upside, and bats left with some power in a primarily RH lineup. I would have to say that he stands a very good chance of making the 25 man roster next season. |
Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 898
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 11:13 pm: | |
Nate tonight: 3.2 IP 8 runs 8 hits 4 BB 5 HRs 0 Ks
His outstanding outing pushes his season era to 6.09 and he now has a 7-10 W/L record
2008 salary $4,250,000
Thanks Nate, for pitching just barely well enough to remain in the Tigers SP roto, after being signed to that multi-million dollar 3 year contract, unlike Dontrelle!!
Speaking of Willis, he also pitched tonight for the Mudhens: 5 IP 5 runs 8 hits 5 BB 4 Ks
Yikes!!
(Message edited by Flanders_field on August 20, 2008) |
Smogboy
Member
Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 8606
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 11:27 pm: | |
Seeing as how we're going to have Nate long term, I wouldn't mind having him slip into the bullpen for next year. I'll give him the knack for trying hard but beyond trying hard, he just hasn't produced what we need our starters to do. A fresh start in the bullpen could be ideal for him. He's never been one to pitch out of control and could be crafty coming out of the pen; it could be an entirely new mindset for him, hopefully can rejuvenate his career and lower his ERA.
This year, we're going to have to ride him out and have him in the rotation. |
Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 899
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 12:07 am: | |
I know that there is a "Mendoza" line for batters who have a BA of .200, but there is no line for SPs with an ERA of 6.00
Maybe we could call it the "Lima Time" line since former Tiger Jose Lima had a 6.11 ERA for the Tigers in his first full season, and had a career ERA comprising two stints with the team of around 6.00 |
401don
Member
Username: 401don
Post Number: 731
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 1:03 pm: | |
4/5 of the starting rotation at the start of the year sucks or is on the DL and the 5th, the ace, is having an off-year. The same can be said for the 2 set-up guys and closer. How is it we're even close to .500? |
Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 900
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 2:07 pm: | |
quote:How is it we're even close to .500?
Interleague play, which accounts for much of the Tigers success over the past 3 seasons. Take that out of the equation and they might not have won the WC in 06 or contended in the CD for much of last season. The Tigers might also be sharing the CD cellar with the Royals right now.
The Tigers play the Royals 3 away, the Indians 3 at home and finish the month with the Royals 3 at home. These 9 games could determine how close to (or how far from) that the Tigers will finish the season around .500. They play series vs the A's, White Sox, Rays, Angels, and Twins in September and I figure that they won't win many if any of those.
(Message edited by Flanders_field on August 21, 2008) |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 8330
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 2:39 pm: | |
Rumors of Maggs being let go to lower the payroll, and using the money to purchase a good starter. Say it ain't so. |
20043_stotter
Member
Username: 20043_stotter
Post Number: 477
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 2:54 pm: | |
They will have to trade him, if they want to improve the present team. Otherwise we are stuck with a .500 ball team next year. Which do you want Mags or a better team. We will not be able to have both. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 8331
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 3:00 pm: | |
Logic of Tiger's administration:
We made it to the World Series for the first time in a long time. The obvious strategy is to completely disassemble the team that got us there. |
Smogboy
Member
Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 8612
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 3:28 pm: | |
They're rumors and nothing more at this point. Look at the payroll that Mike Ilitch was willing to commit to for this season and beyond and look at how much will come off the books at the end of this year. If Ilitch wanted to, he could still go out and get a premier starter and a few other pieces with what's come off the books already and still spend less than what he committed to this season.
Logically the only power hitters on this team are Magglio & Cabrera. If we were to let Maggs go, who would protect a young Cabrera at the plate? Guillen? Sheffield?? Opposing teams would just pitch around Cabrera and our line-up would be MUCH weaker.
I don't deny the need that the Tigers have but seeing as how this is a non-salary cap sport, it's totally on the management to see where it is they want to spend and how much. It's not like the Tigers are forced to trade Magglio away at all so stotter's feeble argument of why we can't have both is totally irrelevant. Prime example are the Yankees and Red Sox who go spend freely and acquire the RIGHT pieces to be competitive; no one forces their hand to trade their players away. |
401don
Member
Username: 401don
Post Number: 732
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 4:14 pm: | |
Leyland stated a few days ago his intention to bat Maggs and Cabrera 3 & 4 next season. I don't think he would say that publicly if the intention was to move Maggs.
My guess is the payroll will end up about 120 million next year, half-way between the current 139 and the articles in the paper saying it will drop to 100. That's enough to add a mid-level starter and not alienate the rejuvenated season ticket base. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2579
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 6:12 pm: | |
1) We don't need to "free up" money.
2) We will not get a really good starter by trading Ordonez unless we package him with other proven players, and after last winter's big moves failed to produce victorious results, I don't see the Tigers doing that.
3) Ordonez is a truly exceptional hitter, but he is an outfielder who turns 35 in January and is on the receiving end of an expensive contract. We love our hirsute hero, but nobody is going to jump up and cry "Ooh! Ooh! We want him!" given the fact that, at any time, the "other shoe could drop."
I think Magglio will be playing out his contract right here.
Stotter, I think your either/or proposition is inaccurate. You stated it with a "simple as that" tone which, in my opinion, does not fit your conclusion.
(Message edited by ravine on August 21, 2008) |
20043_stotter
Member
Username: 20043_stotter
Post Number: 480
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 7:39 pm: | |
Ravine, It seems that people don't like changes and nobody wants him to be traded including me, but will you be happy with a ball team next year that won't make the playoffs? Granted we did it in 2006 with alot of nobodys, but that is rare and an exception. Realistically, we can make no changes and pray for luck or better the odds by making changes. How is that rationally inaccurate? It is not a simple as that tone, but analyzed thoroughly and by more persons than me. Are you another fan that likes and settles for consistency? Even if it's losing consistently? Those are called Detroit Lyin's fans. What is your plan for next year? Do you have one? That's what this forum is about and myself and others would be interested in what you think should be done. Standing pat isn't going to do it.
(Message edited by 20043 stotter on August 21, 2008) |
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1994
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 8:17 pm: | |
The Tigers will have a ton of money available next year, if they want to have approximately the same salary level (give or take). Couple big contracts coming off the books.
As of now, Sabathia will be available. How about a rotation with Verlander returning to form, Sabathia, and a healthy Bonderman? Maybe Porcello will be ready to be a 4th/5th starter too.
(Message edited by focusonthed on August 21, 2008) |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2587
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 8:21 pm: | |
Oh hell no, standing pat won't work. I'm just saying that your suggestion-- that we either trade Ordonez or we won't have a better team-- is an overstatement, I believe.
I have plenty of opinions & ideas about these matters and, since you were gracious enough to ask, I'll be glad to put together a post highlighting some of them. I figure that Smogboy is somewhat perplexed by my relative silence this season, anyway, so maybe it's time that I spilled my guts a little bit.
It may bore the hell out of the rest of you, but it might make me feel better.
Maybe tomorrow. Now, it's almost time for the eat & sleep sequence of my day. |
Smogboy
Member
Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 8615
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 8:48 pm: | |
Stotter, when you make grandiose statements like "They will have to trade him, if they want to improve the present team. Otherwise we are stuck with a .500 ball team next year. Which do you want Mags or a better team. We will not be able to have both.", you're off base with this assumption to which several of us here have called you to task on.
-Why do we HAVE to trade Magglio to improve the team? There are other ways to improving this team such as going the free agency route (NY & Boston do it regularly) and not unless you're stuck in an NFL mindset where there's a salary cap- all Mike Ilitch has to do is open up his wallet and make it happen.
-Your statement obviously state incorrectly that we can't have Magglio AND an improved team.
-No one ever said for the Tigers to stand pat. What dank rumor mill you pulled that out of is obviously offbase. You weren't inquiring if your idea was good or not, you made a suggestion that many of us here think is insipid at best. When you come up with a good idea and can spell Detroit's pro football team name correctly, let us know.
I'm not saying that Magglio is untouchable and if the right trade bait comes up, he could be shipped out- but only if it improves this team. |
20043_stotter
Member
Username: 20043_stotter
Post Number: 481
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 10:54 pm: | |
Why Mags? It very simple to understand. He has the most value and they could get much for him. Then there's his salary too. They got nothing for Pudge. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. But then again. I think they will be forced to trade him to improve the team from its present roster. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2603
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 7:14 pm: | |
Well, it's 6:45, and time to tune in the Tigers broadcast, so I can hear the interview with Jim Leyland, and hear him use tired, annoying cliches like "taking baby steps" (one which he has, probably, retired now that the baby has fallen down the stairs and broken its neck,) and "it's a no-brainer" (which not only explains how it was possible for him to come up with the idea to which he referred, but also prompts the question, "if it's a 'no-brainer,' why did it take you goddam FOREVER to come up with it?"
Once the game begins, I will be treated to hearing Jim (Did I Mention That I Was Part Of The '68 World Champion Detroit Tigers?) Price spray from his own fountain of worn-out, irritating material, including "the art of pitching," "a no-doubter," "nice area," and countless others which I cannot, at this moment, remember because my brain performs a nightly purge of any worthless, blow-hard words & phrases which have, during the course of the day, collected therein.
Oh. He just reminded me of another idiotic vocal tic which he has incorporated into his daily routine: "...leading off, and in Center Field, Curtis........................ Granderson."
If I become too sick of him, I can always tune in the TV broadcast, and try to keep count of how many times Rod Allen uses the term "big leagues" and the word "tremendous." |
D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 1155
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 11:27 am: | |
Tigers placed Kenny Rogers on waivers...
Trade coming soon. |
Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 931
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 11:54 pm: | |
Tigers lose 10-4 with 4 HRs by the Indians and look ripe to be swept tomorrow vs Carmona.
Hello 4th place in the CD, Tigers may as well get settled in, as that is likely where they will finish the season, with a sub-.500 record. ' |
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 2011
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 11:46 am: | |
You remind me of those guys in the bleachers in Major League. Why do you get such joy out of a disappointing team? |
20043_stotter
Member
Username: 20043_stotter
Post Number: 492
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 8:13 pm: | |
Focus, Do you get joy out of a losing team? I'm curious and just asking. |
Smogboy
Member
Username: Smogboy
Post Number: 8646
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2008 - 1:49 am: | |
Focusonthed, don't even dignify stotter's inane question with a response. It's a loaded question that really isn't meant to get any real information out of you or start up any meaningful debate or discussion here about the Tigers. Curiosity my a$$.
How is one supposed to answer that?
(using Walt Disney's Goofy voice) "Gorsh! I just adore watching my pathetic team lose over and over again, Yup yup, that's me awright"
NONE of us who post here on this thread want our teams to lose- whether they be Red Wings, Pistons, Lions or Tigers. We're fans of our teams. stotter has no concept that we can still love our teams, be VERY critical of them, and despite not reaching the championship- be undyingly loyal.
No one here at DetroitYes is preventing anyone else from being a loyal fan of another team, is there? |