 
D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 1301
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 5:41 pm: |    |
again...you mean like the 36 yards he had against UW? |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 1214
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 1:00 pm: | |
I think Carlos Brown would fit this Offense nicely. The problem is the guy is always hurt and wont play again this week. Hopefully Shaw will play, and Minor & Grady dont fumble. McGuffie is going to be good, but we need to mix it up back there some more. If we dont turn it over and play good D we have a ok shot at another W. Of course it could be a long day for us if we dont play big. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 795
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 8:48 am: | |
How you guys holding up? Just remember that it's only football. That thinking has allowed me to keep my sanity through many a dark Spartan season. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 1216
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 10:18 am: | |
I was at a wedding and when I turned on the radio we were up 14-3. Then it all went to crap. Ill looked fast, our D looked slow. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 797
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 10:26 am: | |
Illinois is a VERY good team...a good team that is one injury away from disaster. Just like most teams that run that spread option offense. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1173
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 10:40 am: | |
Indeed only Wolverine college football. Just my favorite sport and team. A win against UI would have been a pleasant surprise.
There were shining moments early on. Later, our flaws resurfaced. |
_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_
Post Number: 2633
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 12:09 pm: | |
Do you still have faith in RichRod. I was not as excited as many with his hire and nothing has made me change my mind yet. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1174
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 2:27 pm: | |
I'm happily faithful to Wolverine football for the long haul. Regarding R2, after 2 - 3 seasons my expectations will be much higher than currently. As an aside, R2 was really fired up and "loudly talking" to the players while the Wolverines were winning early on. Sort of liked that. He may have forseen poor actions which he anticipated would eventually hurt the team. Part of the responsibilities of a Coach is to notice and proactively address such. |
_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_
Post Number: 2658
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 3:25 pm: | |
I see a rumor that two more Michigan recruits are wavering. Is RichRod pressuring these kids to commit early and then losing them. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 1227
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 3:29 pm: | |
When I was in high school I changed my mind about everything weekly.
UM's coach doesnt pressure the kids anymore then other programs. Look at all the lists of recruits, I bet 75% of all kids in the next class have committed to someone. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 800
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 6:51 pm: | |
Well I've heard that 4 star receiver Bryce McNeal is wavering. It is not all that surprising that a receiver of his talents would be a bit concerned about possibly going to a team that is last in its conference in scoring offense and second to last in the conference in passing yards. Add this to the fact that historically, RR's offense is a run heavy attack and a guy who clearly has visions of playing on Sundays may have concerns as to whether Michigan's offense will highlight his talents. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 1231
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 9:40 pm: | |
Mcneal's from Minny. He's being given the dont leave me$$ from them. Get it. Or maybe you think Minnys great O is why he wants to change his mind. Come on Sparty worry about you own team. |
Jtf1972
Member
Username: Jtf1972
Post Number: 51
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 7:04 pm: | |
Ditch-Rod |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 7820
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 7:18 pm: | |
Let's just say that the Wolverines are playing like crap! Almost like Mike Mullen's Detroit Lions. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 802
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 4:55 pm: | |
Mcneal can go anywhere he wants. He's a great talent. His choices are not just between Minny and Michigan. Cal, Florida, and Colorado have offered as well. He's making an official visit to Colorado next weekend. |
_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_
Post Number: 2661
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 11:06 am: | |
Mcneal was one of the players the other is Shavodrick Beaver. Some believe Beaver will visit a few Big 12 schools and still end up at Michigan but others feel he will sign with Texas Tech or Oklahoma State.
Cal is a sleeper for McNeal as well.
Even the Marcus Witherspoon situation, normally I would side with Michigan on this one but after last seasons gaffe and now this, makes me think something is wrong there. Add into that Mallet, the Boren kid, the kid who just transferred suddenly(I want to say Hill), Campbell, Cox. That is lot of wavering IMO. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 1242
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 4:22 pm: | |
Yes it was Hill. Hill actually was a RR recruit, we got him late. He said he was homesick. I have heard differing things on Campbell. To me a kid like Beaver should be licking his lips when it comes to his chances at UM. haha I just realized I mada a joke. |
_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_
Post Number: 2665
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 4:34 pm: | |
One more rumor for the day. RichRod to Clemson. |
D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 1370
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 4:35 pm: | |
Lips on the beaver...nice |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 808
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 7:11 am: | |
HAHA!! Nice one KenP.
In regards to Hill, in all honesty, you guys are probably better off that he left early on. He seems to be a bit of a flaky personality. Last year he came up for an official visit to MSU and all but committed to the Spartans. On his drive back home, him and his family stopped in Ann Arbor for part of the day and he committed to UM. A guy who can change allegiances that quickly probably would not have been a reliable player for you guys anyway. You may have dodged a bullet with him not taken up a scholarship on your roster.
In other news: It looks like the other shoe has dropped as McNeal has "officially" decommitted from Michigan. Beaver could join him very soon. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1175
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 11:28 am: | |
Somewhat surprised at the depth of the pit Wolverines have sunk into. Now hoping for 5-7, with 6-6 appearing unfeasible. Next 2 years, seeking plus 2 wins each. Definitely would like to see 11-1 (or at least 10-2) by end of 4th season under the Coach Rod investment. Thereafter, 10+ wins each season. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 810
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 1:35 pm: | |
Vetalumni,
So let me get this straight. You guys were in a big hurry to run a guy out of town (Carr) that averaged 9.3 wins a year over a 13 year span and who won at least 10 games in 6 out of those 13 so you could bring in a guy who you now HOPE can improve the team by 2 wins a year starting with a 5-7 this season? If he does that, he won't even beat an average year during the Carr years until his 4th year with the team.
My questions are, if it is going to take that long to back to where you were, why run the guy out in the first place, and if Wolverine fans weren't happy with the 9+ wins a year Carr averaged, will they Give RR 4 years? |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1178
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 4:25 pm: | |
I would and do give Coach Rod up to 4 years to regularly reach 11 (or at least 10) regular season wins. Unbeaten would be even better, but a good 10 regular season wins minimum beginning year 4 of Coach Rod. At that point, 10 regular season wins would be a somewhat disappointing season (C), 11 acceptable/good (B), 12 very good (A to A-), and post season wins outstanding (A+).
No answer for "running a guy out". |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 811
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 4:41 pm: | |
Vetalalumni,
I know YOU would give him 4 years, but knowing the mentality of the Michigan fanbase as a whole, do you think he will be given 4 years? |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 1247
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 4:46 pm: | |
How long did it take the mentality of the MSU fan base to get rid of John L.
If RR shows improvement each year he is fine.
If he has a losing record next year and loses to a MAC school he's toast.
We got new Luxury boxes to fill. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 812
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 5:51 pm: | |
Kenp,
two things about the JLS comment.
1. There is no denying that Michigan is used to a certain level of success that is higher than what they typical Spartan fan is accustomed to. Therefore, I would argue that MSU fans have more patience for the "growing pains" of a new coach than Michigan fans do as the expectations are lower. Thus I think trying to compare how long of a leash JLS or any new MSU coach has compared to the head coach at Michigan is irrelevant.
2. One BIG difference between JLS and RR is that JLS inherited a team that went 4-8 in 2002 under Bobby Williams and led it to an 8-5 record and a bowl game in 2003. He bought himself some time with that.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, Rich Rodriguez inherited a team that went 9-4 last including defeating the Heisman trophy winner in a bowl game played in his team's home state. In his defense, major components of the team graduated, but the overwhelming majority of the talent remained. So far he is leading this team to one of its worst seasons in 40 years. He hasn't shown that initial improvement to buy him time with the fanbase that JLS provided (although it was false promise) to Spartan fans back in 2003. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 5432
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 6:20 pm: | |
"In his defense, major components of the team graduated."
Ya think?!?
The majority of the offensive starters never took a collegiate snap before this year.
You say there are many returning players-- but they're all on defense. The defense has been damn good with the exception of a few big plays against Illinois. It's so obvious that an offense that's lacking in togetherness and experience is the problem here. When they block properly to give the highly talented young guys like McGuffie room to run, you see spurts of greatness, but for the most part, they don't know how to block properly. Look at all the dump-passes for losses and broken bubble screens. (The big problem that transcends all of this is the game-changing turnovers-- it even lead to the demise and lopsided outcome in the Illinois game. I would blame coaching/practice issue but apparently they drill them like crazy on holding onto the ball, and the players are just bein' stupid).
In addition, being young they are very tempermental and ride on emotions. The positive outcomes are seen when they have confidence, i.e the second half v. Wisconsin, the first half v. Illinois, and the attempted comebacks against Utah and ND.
All I can say, El_jimbo, is start saying your 'hail marys' now because you don't want your team to miss their chance to beat UM this year-- we are vulnerable and you guys could be on your way to the BCS-- but a confident UM team with a little gusto could make you look like Wisconsin. This is you big shot.
I dunno, we'll see how this team handles Happy Valley. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 813
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 10:09 pm: | |
Mackinaw,
It was RR's choice to play all those young guys. He could have played Minor, Brown or Grady at running back. He also handled things in a manner that caused several key returning offensive players (like Mallett and Boren) to leave. The reason that Michigan is so young this season is very much his doing.
Now, by saying all the returning players were on defense is just another way of making the false claim that Carr "left the cupboard bare". Without counting Mallett and Boren, RR inherited 25 players who were rated 4 stars or higher coming out of high school. Those aren't the freshman recruits that RR brought in, those are the guys who were already there when he showed up and who were still here. That's better talent than 90% of college football teams in the land.
To say that there was nobody left and that RR HAD to start all these freshman is absurd.
Spin it all you want, but how much more stable would your offense be if you still had Mallett and Boren on your roster?
Also, I think it is funny that Michigan fans keep trying to bring up MSU as if it justifies their case. This thread isn't about MSU. It is about UofM. Now if you want to make some comments about the Spartans, there is a whole other thread about the Spartans. However, if you want to talk about the Spartans as a comparison to UofM, we can talk about that.
MSU is a talented team on the rise that is becoming more talented every year. If you think we are good now, wait a few years. We have a quarterback and a slew of talented running backs and receivers who are going really wow you.
In terms of this year, I wouldn't hold out hope for us pulling a Wisconsin. We have a QB who knows what he's doing. Not some bum who chokes away games. Hoyer will burn you if you give him a chance. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 5433
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 1:33 am: | |
It's a fact, Michigan would likely have more wins to this point with Carr than with Rodriguez. I believe when Rodriguez was first brought in and promised the new system some people (myself included) thought we could have our cake and eat it too, meaning, we would have a quick transition and quick success. Then there were two key defections, and the failure to get Pryor. That was a big deal.
But the move, regardless of short term losses, was made with long term implications in mind. The idea was that even the big ten would become as place where a modern offense and highly-conditioned team was needed to keep pace at the top. When you look at OSU and PSU's success, that fact is verifiable. Throw in our recent lack of success (even if they were a series of near-misses) against OSU, and there was good reason to make the move.
Hmmm it seemed like I was mainly posting my thoughts on U-M. I spent a sentence addressing you because, quite frankly, I know you're here to take part in the agitation upon seeing this new and exotic landscape where U-M is second-tier. That's cool. I do not mind. Contrary to your statement, I really don't give a flying you-know-what about MSU. Haven't breathed a word about them outside of my reference to the impending game, but I enjoyed watching their offense on a couple of occasions when they were on tv here. Lookin' forward to two saturdays from now as I'm sure you are. But, really, hope and pray that they don't miss their chance this year. It is the best chance and the most favorable matchup for sparty in decades. I say that with a completely straight face and full knowledge that U-M should lose if you go by the matchups. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 814
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 7:43 am: | |
I disagree with your statement about a "modern" offense. Some of the best teams in the country still use some form of the pro-style offense. USC comes to mind right off the top of my head.
The other thing is that Michigan's version of the spread is VERY different than most other forms that college teams are running today. Most teams that run the spread are set up to be more pass oriented teams where the QB's role is to distribute the ball to his playmakers. The read option version of the spread that Michigan runs asks the QB to be a playmaker with his feet. The problem with this is that it leaves the QB open to a whole lot of added abuse and in many cases leads to injuries. Because of this, Illinois, which ran a similar offense to what Michigan runs this year last season, has shifted from that offense to a more pass oriented attack.
The spread is at its most lethal when you have a QB who you fear both running and passing the ball. Unfortunately, in Michigan's offensive structure, the QB is asked to throw the ball so little that he isn't considered much of a passing threat. Keep in mind that last season, RR's West Virginia team ran the ball 74% of the time. This year, Michigan is running the ball 54% of the time, but they've been behind late in games and have been forced to pass a lot to try and catch up so that stat is a bit deceiving.
What is my point in all of this? While OSU, PSU, and many of the top teams in the country have gone to the spread or have incorporated elements of it into their own pro-style schemes, those offenses are similar to Michigan's in formation only. In terms of philosophy, and scheme, Michigan is COMPLETELY different. Therefore, to state that since teams A, B, and C are having success with one form of the spread, Michigan will have success running a different version of it isn't necessarily true.
The read option spread can be successful. However, as was witnessed in last year's WVU-Pitt game, a team running that offense is just one QB injury away from ruining a season and that offense puts a QB at a high risk for injury due to the number of hits he takes in a game.
(Message edited by el_jimbo on October 16, 2008) |