 
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 7876
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 5:11 pm: |    |
I think its time for Lloyd Carr to come out of retirement. |
Hornist9
Member
Username: Hornist9
Post Number: 161
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 11:44 am: | |
Hell, Rich Rod ought to get someone to teach the defense to tackle! I can't remember when I saw so many Michigan Men miss so many tackles! Ringer got so many yards when someone blew tackles. It's been that bad in every game this season. |
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 3170
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 4:01 pm: | |
I understand he doesn't have the right players either. We have no quarterback (which is a given fact regardless of system) and no defense. I guess we will have to continue to see this team struggle... |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 2680
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 4:37 pm: | |
Well I'm rooting for you guys to beat Ohio State, so I guess Go B... Go Blu.... I cant say it, but good luck. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 833
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 29, 2008 - 5:06 pm: | |
Ltorivia,
Other than QB, Michigan SHOULD have the guys already. Also, Threet is a 4 star QB. He CAN play...just not in this system. To say that Michigan doesn't have the right players is silly. Michigan is one of the most talented teams in the country. I will say this though. If you think the defense is bad this year, you ain't seen nothing yet. The guys Michigan loses this year are MUCH better than the guys replacing them. The defense is going to get worse. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 837
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2008 - 4:17 pm: | |
Big loss for Big Blue today. Michigan's bowl streak is over. More importantly, they've lost the 20 bowl practices they would have been given by going to a bowl game. That is HUGE. A fifth year senior who goes to a bowl game every season has had 100 more practices over the course of his college career than a 5th year senior who's never been to a bowl game.
By continuously going to bowl games, over time, all those extra practices make your players better thanks to the extra coaching they receive. That breeds continued success. This is why Michigan has been able to sustain their success for so long. Over the past 33 years, Michigan has had an extra 660 practices that they wouldn't have had if they hadn't gone to a bowl game. That's big. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 7882
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2008 - 11:19 pm: | |
YAY!
For the first time in over 40 years, the Wolverines are not getting any REAL bowl game. THEY SUCK! They can't even defeat the last place losing team. Fire Rich Rodriguez!
Word from the Street Prophet
LLoyd Carr who is watching the Wolverines in big ole' expensive digital TV is is P*!&@#D! It's time for him to come out of retirement.
GO GREEN GO SPARTANS The Green and White is still in the game for the ROSE BOWL!
Javon Ringer next Heisman Trophy winner. |
Glowblue
Member
Username: Glowblue
Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2008 - 7:11 pm: | |
To El_Jimbo: There's no rule saying you need to go to a bowl game to run practices from Nov-Jan. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 839
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2008 - 8:17 am: | |
Uh...yes there is. No bowl, no practices. That's the NCAA rules. They may be able to do some strength training and conditioning, but no on the field practice of any kind. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 1255
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2008 - 12:25 pm: | |
jimbo is right, no practices.
Now for all the bashers. 40 years without a losing record, 30 some years going to consecutive bowls. Thats something no one else has done. Its very impressive and something to be proud of.
UM will be back, look at Penn State and Alabama. Both hit the skids and look were they are now #1 and #2. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 841
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2008 - 12:38 pm: | |
Kenp,
those records are DEFINITELY things to be proud of.
As far as using Penn State and Alabama as examples of powers who fell but came back, those could be examples. However, there are examples of other elite programs who needed to "modernize" their way of playing football and they've been a shell of their former selves ever since. At this point, Michigan stands as good of a chance of following the downwardly spiraling path of Nebraska or Miami as they do of following Penn State and Alabama. Only time will tell. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1207
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2008 - 5:13 pm: | |
El_jimbo, "unlikely possibility", rather than "good chance". The Wolverine football franchise is a leader which would not "follow" those admirable institutions. Indeed, the factor of time stands between our finding out how this drama will unfold.
The modernization concept is a correct step for the Wolverines. Coach Rod is the on-the-ground leader, however, executive leaders float alternative scenarios. They seem committed to absorbing the costs (wins) of change. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 848
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2008 - 8:35 pm: | |
Vetalumni,
Only arrogance would try and change my statement from "as good of a chance" to "unlikely possibility". What evidence do you have that would support that? It is a true statement that at this point, Michigan stands just as good of a chance of falling apart like Nebraska did as it does of building itself backup like Penn State and Alabama did.
The Nebraska example is a very telling piece because they fell farther than Michigan. Remember, it was Nebraska who was the other National Champion in 1997 along with Michigan and unlike Michigan, they have been back to the National Championship Game since then.
Also, Nebraska is the more appropriate comparison, because Nebraska is the only one of the teams that went through a "modernization" program. Remember, Nebraska was KNOWN for running the option and finding success with it. When They brought in Callahan and the West Coast offense, Nebraska lost its identity and they have yet to recover and find one since.
The same most definitely could happen at Michigan. By bringing in Rich Rod, Michigan made a clean break with everything that made it Michigan. Everything you thought you knew about Michigan is gone (as I said would happen the day they hired Rich Rod) and in many ways, Michigan as a program doesn't even know who they are.
Even the most blue blooded of you has had to have seen it this season. This was a Michigan team that has looked lost, and unsure of themselves. The swagger and confidence that defined them was nowhere to be found. If Michigan suffers more seasons like this in the next few years, they could fall very fast. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1208
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 1:36 pm: | |
Unlikely, as in a less than 50% chance. The sweeping statements and comparisons reach too far and assume too much. The Nebraska example is not "evidence" of what will happen with the Wolverines. The Wolverine results this year are not deterministic of future years. |
D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 1518
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 1:48 pm: | |
Vet...He never said it is what WOULD happen...he said it is what COULD happen...
Put down the Rich Rod Kool Aide...
It could be bad for you guys...Remember...Michigan State was once a dominant program as well.. |
_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_
Post Number: 2755
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 1:48 pm: | |
Very true, yet the future is not guaranteed success either.
24 Years without a losing record is still very impressive, since I don't consider 1984's version of the 6-6 Wolverines as a winning record and probably should have broken their bowl streak that season as well.
(Message edited by _sj_ on November 04, 2008) |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 1276
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 3:31 pm: | |
I remember the year we were 6-5, 1984. We had to play Brigham Young in Holiday Bowl. BYU was undefeated and ranked #1. We were winning the whole game until BYU rallied with 2 4th quarter TD's.
And people bitch today about the BCS setup. BYU was then voted National Champs. |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 1210
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 2:02 pm: | |
Liked the ideas implemented today. Winning convincingly rejuvenates. Coach Rod should tap into it right away. Leverage it. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 850
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2008 - 4:41 pm: | |
Solid win, although Minnesota is not nearly as good as their record indicates. Of Minnesota's 7 wins, one of them came against a Div-II school and only one of the 6 wins against Div-I teams came against a team with a winning record (Northern Illinois 5-4). The combined record of the 6 Div-I teams they've defeated is 25-33. The combined record of the teams that have beaten Minnesota is 18-12; 15-5 if you take out Michigan's record (which implies that Michigan is more talented than its record shows).
On top of that, Minnesota's schedule, in spite of the fact that they don't play Penn State or Michigan State this season, is very backloaded. They finish off the year against a Wisconsin team that looks much better now that they are healthy again and have found a QB, and then a TOUGH Iowa team that just knocked off #3 Penn State.
Bottom line is that Michigan shouldn't be as bad as they are and Minnesota isn't as good as they seem. |
Glowblue
Member
Username: Glowblue
Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2008 - 6:06 pm: | |
Also, Nebraska is the more appropriate comparison, because Nebraska is the only one of the teams that went through a "modernization" program. Remember, Nebraska was KNOWN for running the option and finding success with it. When They brought in Callahan and the West Coast offense, Nebraska lost its identity and they have yet to recover and find one since.
The same most definitely could happen at Michigan. By bringing in Rich Rod, Michigan made a clean break with everything that made it Michigan. Everything you thought you knew about Michigan is gone (as I said would happen the day they hired Rich Rod) and in many ways, Michigan as a program doesn't even know who they are.
The difference is that Bill Callahan had a sparse track record of success at the college level, and zero head coaching experience in college, when he was hired by the Huskers. Rich Rodriguez, on the other hand, has had unqualified success at literally every college coaching job he's ever held, including a tremendous turnaround of the moribund West Virginia football team. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 857
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2008 - 6:30 pm: | |
True, but Callahan took his team to the Super Bowl. It wasn't like he was a total idiot. |
Glowblue
Member
Username: Glowblue
Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2008 - 11:50 pm: | |
^Coaching at the college level and coaching at the pro level can't be compared, for numerous reasons. Pro coaches don't have to worry about recruiting, for instance, and there is a world of difference between coaching paid professionals and coaching amateur 18-23 year olds. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 7933
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2008 - 8:58 am: | |
I don't give a hoot after the Wolverines beat those Golden "Goofers". A' maize and Blue will not a single bowl game. They lost it all. Just finish up your last three games and go home. Then watch as the Michigan State Spartans bring the National Championship to Lansing from Pasadena.
GO GREEN! GO SPARTANS
Javon Ringer = Heisman Trophy winner. |
The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock
Post Number: 2464
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 8:11 am: | |
"A' maize and Blue will not a single bowl game"
You left out a word or two.
"Just finish up your last three games..."
They only have two games after Minn.
"...Spartans bring the National Championship to Lansing".
If they win it, it comes to East Lansing.
"Javon Ringer=Heisman Trophy winner"
Strictly an emotional case of guesswork
But maybe one of these days you will get it right, Danny. |
Jtf1972
Member
Username: Jtf1972
Post Number: 75
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 7:47 pm: | |
RichRod already setting records... |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 505
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 4:53 am: | |
"RichRod, as you can tell by his antics during the offseason, thinks an awful lot of himself. I'm guessing that it is out of pure arrogance that he didn't adjust to his personnel."
quote from El_jimbo
There lies the problem.. RichRod arrogance. Lloyd did not leave the cupboard bare.There was/is talent on that team. What he did to some of the upperclassmen was shameful. He ran talent off the team, he was so interested in putting his own footprints on the program so quickly he had run roughshod over the existing traditions of the program. Unless a program is the pits there's no need to do the sort of things RichRod did, all he need to do is tweak things here and there.
Take Urban Meyer, he came to Florida and there was a QB who definitely didn't fit his system. Guess what!! He kept him and made it work.
Because of Chris Leak Florida won the NC in 2006
What kind of morale do you think theres going to be if you lose your spot as a junior or senior to a freshmen because you're too far along in your Michigan career to adjust to the new system(according to the coaches).
They have a sign telling the football players that those who stay will be champions. That has held true to varying degrees for just about every class since the days of Bo. RichRod just threw that saying right out the window. |
Glowblue
Member
Username: Glowblue
Post Number: 22
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 3:52 pm: | |
^Haha, you don't know anything. Lloyd certainly left the team in a pretty dire position. Last's years offense was rather mediocre, and it was loaded with five NFL-bound players, one of whom would be the #1 pick in the draft. That shows you the caliber of talent for the other six guys on the team, and five of them graduated. That left us with one returning starter on the offense. Then the backup quarterback transferred. The result of all this is that we started six freshmen on offense. What kind of offensive system could fit a situation like that? |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 860
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 6:54 pm: | |
Dire position? If you go by star ratings (which actually do tend to pan out pretty accurately) Michigan has 36 four star or higher players. In the past 5 years, their average recruiting class has been 9th in the country. That means that there are 111 or so teams that, on average have worse talent than Michigan and it means that on talent alone, Michigan should rightfully be in the top 10.
This is why the "Lloyd left the cupboard bare" and "well RichRod has to bring in 'his guys'" thing doesn't hold water. Michigan already has the elite athletes. Assuming Rich Rod's recruiting tactics could help Michigan land a better recruiting class, how much room for improvement in recruiting is there for what Michigan was doing under Carr? If you need to get the #1 class in the country every years in order to successfully run your offense then you are in trouble. |
Firstandten
Member
Username: Firstandten
Post Number: 506
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 8:57 pm: | |
The thing you have to ask is why did the backup QB transfer or why did the receivers who still had eligibility decide to go in the NFL draft or why did the OL men leave the program. That had nothing to do with Lloyd leaving the cupboard bare and everything to do with the recruiting priorities of Rich Rod. When you make it perfectly clear that a hot shot HS QB from PA is your number 1 priority over a kid thats ready to start for you and probably do well the next season you send a bad message to your existing team.
There's no way you can tell me there's no talent on that team. THERE IS ALWAYS TALENT AT MICHIGAN
the success of the program over time insures that fact.
What RichRod should have done and failed to do was to adjust to the talent that was there. Thats not to say that he won't be successful in the future but it tells me alot about his ego and arrogance, and if he's not careful we could be seeing another Charlie Weis |
Glowblue
Member
Username: Glowblue
Post Number: 23
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 12:15 am: | |
quote:Dire position? If you go by star ratings (which actually do tend to pan out pretty accurately) Michigan has 36 four star or higher players.
Recruiting ratings don't mean anything when everyone's a freshman.
quote: In the past 5 years, their average recruiting class has been 9th in the country. That means that there are 111 or so teams that, on average have worse talent than Michigan and it means that on talent alone, Michigan should rightfully be in the top 10.
So experience doesn't mean anything? Do you really think a team of four-star froshes will beat a team of three-star upperclassmen? LOL if you do.
quote:The thing you have to ask is why did the backup QB transfer or why did the receivers who still had eligibility decide to go in the NFL draft or why did the OL men leave the program. That had nothing to do with Lloyd leaving the cupboard bare and everything to do with the recruiting priorities of Rich Rod. When you make it perfectly clear that a hot shot HS QB from PA is your number 1 priority over a kid thats ready to start for you and probably do well the next season you send a bad message to your existing team.
Hmm, if you know all of this, you either:
-Are deeply involved with the Michigan football program, or
-Are pulling things out of your ass.
I'm betting on the latter.
quote:What RichRod should have done and failed to do was to adjust to the talent that was there. Thats not to say that he won't be successful in the future but it tells me alot about his ego and arrogance, and if he's not careful we could be seeing another Charlie Weis
How does one adjust to an inexperienced o-line and an inaccurate quarterback who stares down receivers? You certainly don't run a Lloyd Carr pro-sytle offense, because that requires a good o-line and a QB with good downfield accuracy, and Michigan has neither this year. |